Why do you believe in the Christian god?

[MinorityofOne]

Hey folks. I'm new here, and have mainly joined this forum because I've been undergoing a pretty major crisis of faith, and no one in my personal life, including my church, has been able to help me with it. I hope that by asking questions of you all that my understanding will increase, at the very least.

My question is, why do you believe in the Christian God?

 

[drich0150]

No matter our beliefs we all search for the meaning of life and for our origins.. For me, "God" fills that void with contentment, and peace.

 

[MinorityofOne]

Wiccan - Both!

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Hi Welcome to CF. Am so sorry you're having to deal with this. It's awesome that you're still looking for answers, though... it means that, on some level, you and He aren't willing to let go of the other. That's all it takes for that tiny seed to grow.

It'd be easy to start rambling away, but am really wary of boring you, so I'll condense it, if that's ok? I was an anti-Christian atheist up until 3 years ago. Raised atheist, thought Christianity was a joke, thought Christians were fools, and thought God was, at best, fictional.

But. There was always an ache. It's the same one mirrored in most people - we tend to fill it with drugs, or sex or alcohol, or movies, or food, or whatever. I chose to ignore it, and became angry and hateful, primarily at Christianity, dabbled in witchcraft, explored Buddhism (I can still acknowledge parts of it are beautiful) but came back to angry atheism... I was pushing back against knowing deep down that He was really there, I guess. So after about 4 years of actively denying Him, I just got tired of it so I started researching. Partially intellectually, partly emotionally and spiritually. I wasn't ready to admit "defeat" (very much how I saw it) but I was willing to see what was what.

Everything I found out, discovered and felt led me to believe that Christ is the Truth, and that God is real. At that point, I really had to humble myself to admit there was something bigger and far greater than me out there. It was actually a real sticking point... I was so angry at the idea of having to submit, for example. But choosing not to would have been intellectually and spiritually dishonest so I took the leap and He was waiting He really was.

My faith has ebbed and flowed a lot, but He's proved to me more than once that His existence and love are irrevocable. Have played chicken with my faith, have had dry periods and phases where I become complacent, and each and every time it's happened, He's rebuilt it even stronger than before. I really believe that's why He's allowing you to struggle like this.

I know how unbearable it feels when it's happening - but I also know how wonderfully firm your footing will be when you let Him in again.

Can I ask what started your feeling this way?

 

[MinorityofOne]

Thanks for the responses, guys! I appreciate your attention.

No matter our beliefs we all search for the meaning of life and for our origins.. For me, "God" fills that void with contentment, and peace.

So you believe in the Christian god because believing in him makes you feel good (peaceful and content)? There are a lot of things on this Earth that give me this feeling - spending time with a friend, good music, and meditation, among others. I can't worship something just because it feels good!

Hi Welcome to CF. Am so sorry you're having to deal with this. It's awesome that you're still looking for answers, though... it means that, on some level, you and He aren't willing to let go of the other. That's all it takes for that tiny seed to grow.

Sort of. I'd like to believe that the Christian god exists, I'm just finding it more and more difficult to do so.

It'd be easy to start rambling away, but am really wary of boring you, so I'll condense it, if that's ok?

It'd take a lot a work to bore me with theology or philosophy, haha.

Everything I found out, discovered and felt led me to believe that Christ is the Truth, and that God is real.

What sort of things did you find out, in particular, and where did you learn them?

Can I ask what started your feeling this way?

I don't want to bore you, so I'll condense it a bit. To put it simply, I started asking myself tough questions about my faith, and was unable to answer them in a satisfactory way. 'Why do I believe?' 'What makes the Bible true, and the Koran false?' 'Is God really going to send my dad to hell (my dad isn't a Christian)?' 'Is X really a sin? Why did god give me this urge/desire if it's a sin?'

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Sort of. I'd like to believe that the Christian god exists, I'm just finding it more and more difficult to do so.

It's interesting that you'd like to believe that He exists still. Have you worked out why, at all?

What sort of things did you find out, in particular, and where did you learn them?

I'll say quickly, am an apologetics dilettante But, I believe the historicity of the Bible is reliable, and that non-Christian sources support Biblical account. I really believe that Christ lives today, here and now

But, apart from that, I experienced a miracle 3 days into becoming a Christian and while I would have continued to follow Him without that, it was like being doused with cold water and opened my eyes to the fact that it really, really is really real. We can all wax philosophical as much as we want to, and we can all tear strips off each other and get our hate on with people on the other side of the "God Debate"... and ultimately none of that matters because He's real. And if He's real, what purpose is there in doing anything other than sharing Him and loving Him?

If you want to look into the validity of Christianity historically, I'd really recommend New Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell. Failing that, The Dawkins Letters by David Robertson. Both intellectually unimpeachable, and so faith-affirming.

I want to stress, though, that Christianity is a faith. It's making that choice to believe because on some level, you understand and believe Him to be true. The funny thing is, we all have access to the same information. For some, it adds up to God; for some, it adds up to atheism. The difference between the 2 is a willingness to take the leap I mentioned before. Christianity doesn't ask that we deny our sense of reason - there's no need to. But it asks that we step out in faith, and only then does He meet us half way.

I don't want to bore you, so I'll condense it a bit. To put it simply, I started asking myself tough questions about my faith, and was unable to answer them in a satisfactory way. 'Why do I believe?' 'What makes the Bible true, and the Koran false?' 'Is God really going to send my dad to hell (my dad isn't a Christian)?' 'Is X really a sin? Why did god give me this urge/desire if it's a sin?'

It sounds a little like you're vascillating between questioning His existence altogether, and questioning His character. But to do the latter you need to believe He exists... do you see what I mean?

 

[MinorityofOne]

It's interesting that you'd like to believe that He exists still. Have you worked out why, at all?

Not really. Perhaps it's a desire to know that someone is always watching out for me. Maybe it's because the Church and God have always been such a huge part of my life that I'll get bored if I determine that he probably isn't real, haha.

But, apart from that, I experienced a miracle 3 days into becoming a Christian and while I would have continued to follow Him without that, it was like being doused with cold water and opened my eyes to the fact that it really, really is really real.

Can you elaborate for me?

We can all wax philosophical as much as we want to, and we can all tear strips off each other and get our hate on with people on the other side of the "God Debate"... and ultimately none of that matters because He's real. And if He's real, what purpose is there in doing anything other than sharing Him and loving Him?

I disagree. There's no need to 'get our hate on', admittedly, but open and frank discussion about theology, philosophy, and religion is necessary in the quest for truth.

If you want to look into the validity of Christianity historically, I'd really recommend New Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell. Failing that, The Dawkins Letters by David Robertson. Both intellectually unimpeachable, and so faith-affirming.

I'll be locating and reading that first book just because of you. I might message you with questions during my reading - is that alright?

Christianity doesn't ask that we deny our sense of reason - there's no need to. But it asks that we step out in faith, and only then does He meet us half way.It sounds a little like you're vascillating between questioning His existence altogether, and questioning His character. But to do the latter you need to believe He exists... do you see what I mean?

What do you mean by 'step out in faith'? (I'm considering majoring in law, so I have to ask questions like this ) And I do see what you mean, but I don't have to believe he exists to question his character. If he exists, I'm questioning the character of God. If he doesn't, I can still question the character of 'god' in the Bible just like you can currently question the character of 'allah' in the Koran.

 

[drich0150]

'Is X really a sin? Why did god give me this urge/desire if it's a sin?'

to understand the nature of sin we have to look past the "good and bad" labels that have been placed on our actions back in Sunday school.

Sin, is anything outside of God's will

and

Evil, is malicious intent to commit sin.

These actions are not good or bad because they benefit or harm us, but because they are outside of the will of God. Now if we lived in a state where we could only do what God willed for us, then we couldn't choose for ourselves.. It is when we choose for ourselves or rather choose something outside of God's will, that we exercise free will. Free will is not bad, it is a gift from God, but at the same time it is by definition, sin. This dilemma is the reason for Jesus.. Jesus's sacrifice is the only way to have the "Free will" to choose God and still retain our individuality.

So to answer your question directly, your urge or desire belongs to you and you alone.. It is apart of the sinful nature (Free will) this body is bound to. God knowingly prepared a sacrifice for the atonement of your sin or your free will, so that you may have this life to live in a manner that you choose.. If you choose God then after this life you will go home to be with him, if you choose to live for yourself then Hell is the only place that you can do that. You have to also get past the Sunday school Idea of hell.. Hell isn't hell because of what is there. (Hell fire, brimstone, demons with pitchforks, etc, etc..) Hell is hell because of what is not there, (God and the rest of known creation) and the reality of eternity without God.

God being a God of mercy, and true righteousness would never drag a soul into heaven if that person spent their entire life putting distance between themselves and Him. If a person did not like God in this life, what would make him like or Love him in the next one?

'What makes the Bible true, and the Koran false?'

The religious answer is the Qur'an was written after the cannon of scripture was closed, and it's teachings conflict with the old and new testament.

While the bible shows a progression or completion of the law, and a telling of the events leading up to the completion of the law. The Qur'an in a sense, rewrites old testament law cutting out the Jews, and takes us from an economy of freedom and grace that the new testament is about, back to a state of legalism and adherence to the religious interpretation of the "new law." why would God do what he did with the Jews, Jesus and the Church, if he was only going to start from scratch a few hundred years after everything was complete? Again this is a religious account.. It's not perfect and there are points that can be argued, but it is the account I find suitable.

I personally believe the bible to be true because all of the complexity and all of the layers of knowledge and wisdom contained in it.. It is the living word because the text doesn't change, but the meaning to very familiar passages do when you grow in your faith. I have read and studied the Qur'an and it reads more like an instruction manual. It gives accounts of events and rules to follow to be a Muslim..

On the surface the bible is the same but if you take the time to grow in the word you will realize that the "rules" are not the way to God. Heaven, hell, Paradise or eternal torment all pale in the true meaning of scripture. None of the perceived rewards of heaven, or torments of hell mean anything anymore.. Because it is all about love.. The completion and oneness that a person can find in a true relationship with God.. This is what heaven is.. Heaven has nothing to do with mansions or virgins or streets of Gold.. Heaven is the place where you get to spend eternity with the one you have supposedly spent this life searching for...

I ask this question in another post: If sometime in the past the description of heaven and hell were switched for whatever reason, and God was in the pit of "hell fire and brimstone" would you still want to goto heaven? Even if it meant you had to spend your eternity literally on fire, meanwhile hell was all we think heaven to be?

Heaven is heaven because God is there, not because of your surroundings. The "Paradise" found out side of the Bible is a place that services the faithful follower, and has little to do with a relationship with God.

 

[Chesterton]

My question is, why do you believe in the Christian God?

Because the other gods are not Christian.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Not really. Perhaps it's a desire to know that someone is always watching out for me. Maybe it's because the Church and God have always been such a huge part of my life that I'll get bored if I determine that he probably isn't real, haha.

Actually, I agree that life can be boring without Him so, as reasons go, that's not a bad place to start

Can you elaborate for me?

Sure 3 nights in, I had a dream where I was being chased. Used to have those a lot. Bleh. Anyway, in the dream, I got on my knees and started reciting something. Didn't know what it was. When I woke up I still remembered snippets... you know those slightly hazy, fuzzy memories of dreams that fade within an hour or so? So I scribbled them down and later discovered I'd been reciting Psalm 91. Bear in mind, I hadn't read it, hadn't even heard of it, and I was on my knees quoting it word for word for word. It's actually the protection psalm, and one of my favourite parts of the Bible now. But that told me, beyond any reasonable doubt P) that He was real.

I disagree. There's no need to 'get our hate on', admittedly, but open and frank discussion about theology, philosophy, and religion is necessary in the quest for truth.

But, realistically, given how pervasive and acrimonious the whole subject has become, how common is open discussion? On Amazon, I saw an atheist call for the eugenics of Christians a few days ag. On Amazon! That's how widespread and hateful the whole thing has become.

He can be shared through discussion, absolutely... but I think it's gotten to the point where we need to be showing people who He is now. Talking about Him isn't enough, and we need to be out there showing people.

I'll be locating and reading that first book just because of you. I might message you with questions during my reading - is that alright?

I'd be honoured Bear in mind, it's a tome. Over 700 pages and it weighs a tonne... but that's how reliable the Christian faith is. Some of the chapter headingss are:

~ Is the New Testament historically reliable?
~ Jesus, a man of history
~ The Presupposition of Anti-supernaturalism
~ Archaeology and Biblical Criticism
~ Development of the Documentary Hypothesis
~ Consequence of Radical Higher Criticism
~ Incongruities
~ Historical Skepticism
~ The Nature of Truth
~ Certainty vs. Certitude...

It's a proper, indepth masterclass in apologetics and the historicity of the faith. Can't recommend it enough, really.

What do you mean by 'step out in faith'? (I'm considering majoring in law, so I have to ask questions like this )

Making that choice to believe... like having an equation in front of you. You have what x is, and you have the answer, but you choose to believe that y = * because you have enough data to support the validity of that decision. And God doesn't let us go out on a limb without meeting us halfway. But it takes that first step, and it can be a hard one to take.

And I do see what you mean, but I don't have to believe he exists to question his character. If he exists, I'm questioning the character of God. If he doesn't, I can still question the character of 'god' in the Bible just like you can currently question the character of 'allah' in the Koran.

Except, I don't give Allah a second's thought. But I accept your point, absolutely.

Is whether you decide to follow Him dependant on His character?

 

[MinorityofOne]

'm going to try to address everyone's points. Bear with me, and if I forget to address something you mentioned, repeat it in your next post and I'll make sure to discuss it.

These actions are not good or bad because they benefit or harm us, but because they are outside of the will of God.

And how do you determine what the will of God is, for you? Read Scripture? This begs the question, how do we know that the Bible is the 100% true infallible word of God? If it isn't 100% true and infallible, what parts of it are fact and what parts of it are fiction?

If you choose God then after this life you will go home to be with him, if you choose to live for yourself then Hell is the only place that you can do that.

Many people don't choose to live for the Christian god OR for themselves. I have friends who following the Jewish god, the Muslim god, Buddha, Pagan practices, or some other religion/philosophy. You make it sound like turning away from god is an incredibly selfish choice when, for many, that's just not the case.

The religious answer is the Qur'an was written after the cannon of scripture was closed, and it's teachings conflict with the old and new testament.

This doesn't lend much support to the Christian cause. The new testament conflicts with the old testament, yet you accept both testaments as true.

If for any reason you believe the testaments do not conflict with each other...
Question: Will those who call on the LORD be delivered?
A: YES! Joel 2:32a, "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered..."
A: NO! Matthew 7:21, "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

I'm not here to defend the Koran in particular, though - let me expand my question. Why the Bible instead of the Mahabarta? The Analects of Confucius? The Epic of Gilgamesh? Zoroastrian scriptures? I could go on, there are literally thousands of other religious works.

I ask this question in another post: If sometime in the past the description of heaven and hell were switched for whatever reason, and God was in the pit of "hell fire and brimstone" would you still want to goto heaven?

I'm going to respond with a more extreme question. If there was no heaven and there was no hell, would you still follow the teachings contained within the Bible?

Because the other gods are not Christian.

So you believe in the Christian god because he's the Christian god, and no other god is the Christian god? That's called circular logic, and is a fallacy. Your argument carries no weight.

Sure 3 nights in, I had a dream where I was being chased. Used to have those a lot. Bleh. Anyway, in the dream, I got on my knees and started reciting something. Didn't know what it was. When I woke up I still remembered snippets... you know those slightly hazy, fuzzy memories of dreams that fade within an hour or so? So I scribbled them down and later discovered I'd been reciting Psalm 91. Bear in mind, I hadn't read it, hadn't even heard of it, and I was on my knees quoting it word for word for word. It's actually the protection psalm, and one of my favourite parts of the Bible now. But that told me, beyond any reasonable doubt () that He was real.

I'm not going to deconstruct your miracle logically, because I have no desire to change YOUR beliefs. All I'll say is that what you've written has not really convinced me that the dream was definitely, 100% without a doubt from God.

I'd be honoured Bear in mind, it's a tome. Over 700 pages and it weighs a tonne... but that's how reliable the Christian faith is.

That's a hasty generalization, a logical fallacy. A book's thickness/weight has no bearing on how true or reliable it is. The Indian holy books have over seven times more content than the Bible, but that alone does not make them more or less true/reliable than Christian scripture. Anyhow, I'll definitely be picking up the book you recommended by the end of the week.

Making that choice to believe... like having an equation in front of you. You have what x is, and you have the answer, but you choose to believe that y = * because you have enough data to support the validity of that decision.

I'm not particularly well-versed in science or math, so I'm a bit lost by this comparison. Can you rephrase your explanation? I really do want to understand. :]

Is whether you decide to follow Him dependant on His character?

Yes. If I logically deduced that the god presented in the Bible is an evil and malicious being, I would not follow him. I DON'T currently think he's an evil being, this is just an example of why his character matters.

 

[ebia]

Hey folks. I'm new here, and have mainly joined this forum because I've been undergoing a pretty major crisis of faith, and no one in my personal life, including my church, has been able to help me with it. I hope that by asking questions of you all that my understanding will increase, at the very least.

My question is, why do you believe in the Christian God?

Are you asking why I first believed in the Christian God, why I currently believe in the Christian God, or why you should believe in the Christian God? Because they are very different questions with very different answers.

 

[andreha]

Hey folks. I'm new here, and have mainly joined this forum because I've been undergoing a pretty major crisis of faith, and no one in my personal life, including my church, has been able to help me with it. I hope that by asking questions of you all that my understanding will increase, at the very least.

My question is, why do you believe in the Christian God?

Well, for me it started as a little boy. Demons were attacking me in my bed every night, and slowly, the will to continue living slipped away from me. See, my vocabulary was too limited to try and tell my parents about it. So, one night, after hearing about Jesus from my teacher (just started school), I asked Him to help. He did so, in a way I'll never forget. Since then, God has revealed Himself to me in amazingly powerful ways. I can give you dozens of examples of supernatural things He showed me. Whenever I need anything, He gives it to me. It's an awesome experience to have such powerful help.


It all starts by calling on the name of The Lord Jesus Christ, and just ask Him to give you firm conviction. God will do the rest.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I believe in the christian God because of things that he has shown me, and answers to prayer.

FIRST STORY
==========
One morning I got up walked into the hall and I heard God say "How would you like to be stabbed in the valley?". This scared me a little because I was going to the valley that day to ask people out to church. I decided to go any way. The first person I walked upto was an aboriginal man; I asked him out to church. He said to me "I am an atheist I do not belive in God". I just said fine and hoped to change his mind. Shortly after he began to un button his shirt, and he showed me scar marks where he had been cut. He said to me "This is why I don't believe in God, I was attacked by a knife welding man in the valley, and spent months recovering in hospital". Then I knew why God had said "How would I like it", God knew why this guy ticked the way he did, and he was wanting to help him, as God is still wanting to help you. Some weeks latter this man came out to church and became a Christian, even after saying he was an athiest and untouchable.

SECOND STORY
============
I thought about suing some one at one point in my life. But it troubled me because I thought it might give them the impression that God was mean; so I prayed and asked God what to do. Latter that day I opened my bible at random, picking a random verse (not with my mind just close eyes and open book kind of stuff) it opened to 1Co 6:7 "Nay, already it is altogether a defect in you, that ye have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? why not rather be defrauded?", So I knew that God did not want me to go to court.

THIRD STORY
==========
I was always afraid that I had committed the unpardonable sin and could never get peace with God. This was untill he started to use prophetic people to give me just one verse from the bible "I know the thoughts I think toward you says the LORD for good and not for evil" Heaps of people when they prophocied, or just started praying for me would get that verse for me. They would stick their hand on me and the first thing that would come out of their mouth would be that verse. Or just every day people at church would say "I just get this feeling that God wants to benifit you", "you know like that verse "I know the thoughts ... etc"

FOURTH STORY
===========
Some times God would just fill me in on worthless information, just for the fun of it. As one example my sister asked me "What do you think we are doing with Johnothan" Johnothan was her baby boy. My mind became flooded with thoughts of circumcision even thought that was not a custom in our family. I thought I needed my mind cleansed. However it turned out that she had planned to get him circumsised.

FITH STORY
=========
When ever I pray I often say "Jesus" when praying, to which I always (or often) get the reply "Robert", which is my name. It is just his fun way of saying "You know my name, and I know yours"

SIXTH STORY
==========
I was praying for a cure for cancer. At the same time I though "seeing I am on a science kick I should ask some other interseting stuff, like how to create a dinosour." So I prayed and asked the LORD if he would show me how to create a dinosour. The term "Bood" entered my mind. I had not heard it before but thought "Maybe this is a term that will lead me to it" So I did an internet search. To my suprise Bood is a term used by a small asian tribe to gently and with respect for the other person to say NO. So I knew God was telling me in a gentle way NO.

 

[andreha]

Amazing testimonies, FutureAndAHope.

It makes me think of the time when I was about to die in a car accident, on the freeway. Seconds before impact, God said to me, in such a gentle voice "My child, it's time to start braking." I just replied "O, ok" without doing anything - my mind was still far away. The next second, He takes physical control of my body, and makes me stop. It saved my life, and the lives of those that would have died with me. That's what is so awesome about our God. He is alive, and looking after us.

 

[Chesterton]

So you believe in the Christian god because he's the Christian god, and no other god is the Christian god? That's called circular logic, and is a fallacy. Your argument carries no weight.

Close, almost. I believe in the Christian God because of Christ. When I look at Christ I know I am seeing God. With any other gods there's simply nothing to look at, just ideas to think about. In Christ we have all the best of any other ideas of divinity, combined with the fact that He is real; was Immanuel, God With Us. I believe in the Christian God because I perceive that Christ is Him.

 

[aiki]

Hey folks. I'm new here, and have mainly joined this forum because I've been undergoing a pretty major crisis of faith, and no one in my personal life, including my church, has been able to help me with it. I hope that by asking questions of you all that my understanding will increase, at the very least.

My question is, why do you believe in the Christian God?

I believe in Jehovah-God because He has shown Himself real to me. I have had a constant, daily experience of Him now for over thirty years. There are philosophical, scientific, and historical reasons for my faith in God, too, but the main reason I believe in Him is because I have a personal relationship with Him.

Peace to you.

 

[salida]

Well, besides my faith as its a spiritual decision first its also for intellectual reasons. Ask yourself, Are you a good person? Can you keep all the 10 Commandments 100% of the time all the time? Only Jesus did. http://www.livingwaters.com/good/ Because mankind has fallen we need a Lord and Savior. Its our spiritual medicine. Other religions try to work their way to heaven without being redeemed. Read, The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (its overwhelming biblical evidence that would stand up in a court of law without a shadow of a doubt). The Bible has certain attributes that could only have been written by God.

Biblical Evidence – This is a very small amount of information
out of large amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few – but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke’s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 – four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek – Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay – which is the
Roman Empire – during this empire, Christ came and the church was established – Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament – starts at 25 years – between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes – at 1400 years/Plato – at 1200 years/
Caesar – at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament – 5,686/Homer – 643/Demosthenes – 200/Plato – 7/Caesar – 10

Consistency – Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.



Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.


External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven’t.
Niveveh – Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon – Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing – Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago – some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere – Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight – Job 28:25/
Gravity – Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn’t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

I'm sorry that churches can't answer these questions. I don't get why this is the case. How can one believe in something and don't even know why?

 

[MinorityofOne]

Attempting to respond to you all - sorry if I miss anyone!

Are you asking why I first believed in the Christian God, why I currently believe in the Christian God, or why you should believe in the Christian God? Because they are very different questions with very different answers.

Why YOU believe in the Christian God. Give any answers you believe will be helpful to me.

Demons were attacking me in my bed every night...

I'm confused by this. Can you elaborate? Did creatures literally come and beat you with their fists and claws? Did you have nightmares? Your response doesn't give me many specifics!

Things!

Most of your testimonies involve you speaking to God. So, you heard him speak? Was there anyone else around that heard his voice, too, or was he just speaking to you? How did you know it was God? I ask because in all my years as a Christian, I never once have had God speak to me directly. Why would he speak to you, and not to me? I accepted Jesus as my savior, became active in my church, ministered frequently (and converted many to the Christian cause), prayed often, and read scripture on a regular basis, yet God never spoke to me.

Amazing testimonies, FutureAndAHope.
It makes me think of the time when I was about to die in a car accident...

Great testimony, but it leaves me with many of the same questions. Are you sure it was God speaking to you? Did anyone else hear him? How do I know that you weren't high when you heard him? That you weren't delusional? That you aren't insane? That's kinda the problem with personal accounts. While many of them sound incredible, when you apply the principles of logic to them they simply do not stand up to investigation.

Close, almost. I believe in the Christian God because of Christ. When I look at Christ I know I am seeing God. With any other gods there's simply nothing to look at, just ideas to think about. In Christ we have all the best of any other ideas of divinity, combined with the fact that He is real; was Immanuel, God With Us. I believe in the Christian God because I perceive that Christ is Him.

Circular logic, again. While this may make perfect sense to you, it will not fly with a rational person... and this is why.

Premise: God = Christ = The Holy Ghost. The three are one being.
Premise: Immanuel, God With Us, and 'Him' refer to God.

Thus, part of your argument may be read:

When I look at Christ I know I am seeing Christ... Christ is real, is Christ, Christ. I believe in Christ because I believe that Christ is Christ.

It lacks any rational basis and is, essentially, meaningless.

Now, to respond to the middle of your argument:

...With any other gods there's simply nothing to look at, just ideas to think about. In Christ we have all the best of any other ideas of divinity...

Have you studied every other god to the extent that you've studied the Christian one? If not, you can't support your argument because you are ignorant of other religions and gods, and once again it is rendered meaningless.

I believe in Jehovah-God because He has shown Himself real to me. I have had a constant, daily experience of Him now for over thirty years. There are philosophical, scientific, and historical reasons for my faith in God, too, but the main reason I believe in Him is because I have a personal relationship with Him.

Elaborate, please? What is your 'personal relationship' like with God?

Ask yourself, Are you a good person? Can you keep all the 10 Commandments 100% of the time all the time? Only Jesus did.

This one's gonna take a while. How do we know that Jesus kept all 10 commandments for all his life?

Quick Edit: Also, the 10 commandments should not be looked at as the end-all, be-all of moral codes. How well you follow them does not determine how 'good' or 'bad' you are as a person.

Other religions try to work their way to heaven without being redeemed.

How do we know heaven is real? Why do we need to be 'redeemed'?

The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (its overwhelming biblical evidence that would stand up in a court of law without a shadow of a doubt).

I'll read it after the book that was recommended to me earlier in the thread, possibly.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible

I'm not going to address every prophecy because I don't have the time. I'll respond to the most significant one, though.

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah / Matt:

Premise: Matthew had access to the book of Isaiah when he wrote his account of Jesus life. In Isaiah, it's mentioned that the messiah will be born of a virgin.

Premise: Matthew believed that Jesus was the Messiah.

Conclusion: Thus, Matthew would attribute a Virgin Birth to Jesus whether or not he knew it was true. To Matthew, Jesus was the messiah, so of COURSE he was born of a virgin.

Hopefully my issues with that prophecy made sense.

Number of Manuscript Copies

Pretty irrelevant, but thanks for the info.

Consistency

You're talking about the BIBLE, not the NEW TESTAMENT alone, right? I mentioned an inconsistency earlier in the thread. Take a look. It definitely does contain inconsistencies, but you are more than capable of rationalizing them away.

Claim of Inspiration

Every claim written in books is true? According to that logic, EVERY religious book is true, because they all claim to be true. This isn't evidence.

External Evidences

Tyre was rebuilt, and still stands today. The end of time has not come yet, so we can't say that Nineveh and Babylon will not be rebuilt. :] Also, can we really be impressed by people saying "In this time of war and strife, this city will be destroyed." I predicted that Saddam Hussein would be caught and killed the day the Iraq war began, but you won't worship me (darn!), yet my prediction is very similar to the ones made in the Bible.

Bible before Science

Man didn't know the above for 350 years. I'm pretty sure any halfwit noticed 'Hey, something is making my feet stay on the ground, it's gravity." and "Hey, the horizon is curved, maybe the Earth is a circle." Speaking of, my version of the Bible doesn't mention that the Earth is a sphere, it says the Earth is a circle, and even people who believe in a flat earth believe the earth is a circle.

The Bible is also wrong about several things that can be proved. For example, it is written in the BIBLE that Noah's ark was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet tall. Two of each animal that exists today could not fit on this ark.

Documents that Prove Bible is True

In order to use these documents as evidence that the Bible is true, you must accept that the documents are true... but do you really think the Epic of Gilgamesh is true? Really? REALLY really?

I've heard most of your arguments before, salida, and it just isn't convincing unless you already believe that the Bible is true.

Wall of text crits you for 3000 damage.

 

[drich0150]

And how do you determine what the will of God is, for you? Read Scripture? This begs the question, how do we know that the Bible is the 100% true infallible word of God? If it isn't 100% true and infallible, what parts of it are fact and what parts of it are fiction?

That's just it.. as a true christian you know we are always out side of God's will, but there is still grace and forgiveness to be found through Jesus.. Meaning we don't have to live a certain way to obtain righteousness..

Many people don't choose to live for the Christian god OR for themselves. I have friends who following the Jewish god, the Muslim god, Buddha, Pagan practices, or some other religion/philosophy. You make it sound like turning away from god is an incredibly selfish choice when, for many, that's just not the case.

using this chain of logic you have acknowledged the "Christian God" as the God over Heaven and hell.. If this is the case, then wouldn't "we" need to adhere to the christian God's rules? If your friends choose to worship "other gods" then ultimately aren't they answerable to them? Do you think any of their religious beliefs will have mercy for the "unbelievers" of their religions?

This doesn't lend much support to the Christian cause. The new testament conflicts with the old testament, yet you accept both testaments as true.

If for any reason you believe the testaments do not conflict with each other...
Question: Will those who call on the LORD be delivered?
A: YES! Joel 2:32a, "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered..."
A: NO! Matthew 7:21, "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

If your really looking rightly divide these passages I will help you here, but if it is just a point I can understand for a passer by these passages look like they contradict.

In short Joel's prophesy point to the day when the holy Spirit is poured out on all of the people of the world, not to just the Jews. "And it will come that Who ever calls my name..." Meaning there will not be a distinction between Jew and Greek.

Mathew Jesus simply states a fact, no everyone who call his name will truly know him.

You have to remember that a lot of culture, and fair amount of meaning is lost in translation.. "Name" in Joel refers to an opportunity given to a people previously lost to God.. The context of name in Mathew is more like taking his name in vein.. The People calling it have no right to do so. That is unless you think the people who out right curse God get a free pass to heaven Just because they use his name in the curse.. There is a line there if you wish to acknowledge it.

I'm not here to defend the Koran in particular, though - let me expand my question. Why the Bible instead of the I'm not here to defend the Koran in particular, though - let me expand my question. Why the Bible instead of the Mahabarta? The Analects of Confucius? The Epic of Gilgamesh? Zoroastrian scriptures? I could go on, there are literally thousands of other religious works.? The Analects of Confucius? The Epic of Gilgamesh? Zoroastrian scriptures? I could go on, there are literally thousands of other religious works.

Because, The Bible is the only work inspired by God.. The Koran, an angel, Mahabharata, the works of Karma, Gilgamesh, the works of Sumerian Legend, and on and on... The Bible claims to be the Work of the Holy Spirit, and because it is Heaven I want to get into, and not a cow in the next life, it is the reason I choose the bible.

I ask this question in another post: If sometime in the past the description of heaven and hell were switched for whatever reason, and God was in the pit of "hell fire and brimstone" would you still want to goto heaven?
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I'm going to respond with a more extreme question. If there was no heaven and there was no hell, would you still follow the teachings contained within the Bible?

I will answer you question, but I still want you to answer mine.. If there is a God, and the bible is still the inspired word of God then yes.. Not because of what awaits for me in the next life, but because I honestly Love God in this one. Remember that is what makes Heaven, Heaven.. Not the stuff that one may think is there. You get to be with the one you love with all of your being!

Now Quid pro Quo.. If If God lived in a fiery pit "Heaven" and Hell was paradise would you still want to go to Heaven?

Why or why not?
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