Why do YECists have such a low opinion of God?

[Vene]

That's why I'm here ---

So do it, provide some evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

So do it, provide some evidence.

Evidence for what?

Creation or the Bible as a whole?

 

[Vene]

Evidence for what?

Creation or the Bible as a whole?

For embedded age, but evidence that the Bible is the word of god would also be good. Or even that the Christian story of creationism is correct would also be fine.

 

[AV1611VET]

For embedded age...

​

 

[Vene]

So it went poof with nothing saying it happened other than a book? What about the creation myths of other religions, do they get an equal say in this?

 

[AV1611VET]

So it went poof with nothing saying it happened other than a book?

It's more than a book --- it's a sword.

[bible]Hebrews 4:12[/bible]

Jesus used it to pwn Satan in the wilderness.

What about the creation myths of other religions, do they get an equal say in this?

​

 

[Nathan Poe]

It's more than a book --- it's a sword.

Well, AV, it's finally happened. I fear your Uberliteralism is beginning to interfere with your mental health. You're calling books "swords" now. How sad, how sad...

Worse, you're still thinking the Bible is "the Word" of God -- very odd considering "the Bible" didn't even exist when the verse you quoted was recorded.

 

[PeterMaclellan]

It's more than a book --- it's a sword.

No it isn't, its a book. If you could do me a favor, setting aside all debate, where does you're confidence in the bible come from? You seem very sure of your beliefs, which, to an Atheist likes me, seems kind of odd as I have met people who are every bit as confident as you are that they have the right answer, but all their answers are pretty much completely different. So what makes you so sure you're right? What makes you so sure the bible is the divine word of God and not a fallible, fictional creation by man?

 

[Baggins]

I think AV's case is well known.

He believes god created a 4.5 billion year old planet 6100 years ago, just as he create Adam as a man.

He sees no inherent problems in this hypothesis and I don't think we are going to show him that it is an impossibility unless god is a deceiver any time soon.

I think we just have tolive and let live on this one.

I still don't think we have a good explanation of why god didn't create a 6100 year old planet 6100 years ago though. Surely that would have been the logical thing to do?

 

[AV1611VET]

What makes you so sure the bible is the divine word of God and not a fallible, fictional creation by man?

The Bible has something in it that no book has --- prophecy.

It foretold Israel's history --- in advance --- with 100% accuracy.

 

[AV1611VET]

I still don't think we have a good explanation of why god didn't create a 6100 year old planet 6100 years ago though. Surely that would have been the logical thing to do?

I'm not sure a young earth could sustain life.

But in any event, that was God's decision --- not mine.

 

[Vene]

The Bible has something in it that no book has --- prophecy.

It foretold Israel's history --- in advance --- with 100% accuracy.

Are you aware of the term 'self-fulfilling prophecy?'

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you aware of the term 'self-fulfilling prophecy?'

Yes I am --- and I don't believe it for a minute.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Yes I am --- and I don't believe it for a minute.

Got a reason for that?

 

[AV1611VET]

Got a reason for that?

There are so many --- where do I start?

Let's start with science. A self-fulling prophecy would be treated as cause-and-effect. After all, just wishing something can't bring it about.

For example ---

Prophecy:

• [bible]Joshua 6:26[/bible]

Fulfillment:

• [bible]1 Kings 16:34[/bible]

Conclusion:

• Self-fulfilling prophecies don't have power over life and death.

Here's another example ---

Prophecy:

• [bible]Genesis 41:30[/bible]

Fulfillment:

• [bible]Genesis 41:56[/bible]

Conclusion:

• Self-fulfilling prophecies cannot cause famines.

 

[Nathan Poe]

There are so many --- where do I start?

Let's start with science. A self-fulling prophecy would be treated as cause-and-effect. After all, just wishing something can't bring it about.

But we're not talking about science, we're talking about literature. Cause-and-effect is always within the author's power.

For example ---

Prophecy:

• [bible]Joshua 6:26[/bible]

Fulfillment:

• [bible]1 Kings 16:34[/bible]

Conclusion:

• Self-fulfilling prophecies don't have power over life and death.

So, was Abiram really in the foundations, or was that just written in because (as the book of Joshua clearly says) it was already written?

Here's another example ---

Prophecy:

• [bible]Genesis 41:30[/bible]

Fulfillment:

• [bible]Genesis 41:56[/bible]

Conclusion:

• Self-fulfilling prophecies cannot cause famines.

No, but they can be used to explain them.

And honestly, it happened in the very same story, AV. The same author fulfilled his own prophecy.

This is a weak example, even for you.

 

[thaumaturgy]

The Bible has something in it that no book has --- prophecy.

Do other religion have written prophecies?

Q'ran Sura 17:104 And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]In Chapter 26 of Digha Nikaya, we are told:[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman,Times]"At that period, brethren, there will arise in the world an Exalted One named Maitreya, Fully Awakened, abounding in wisdom and goodness, happy, with knowledge of the worlds, unsurpassed as a guide to mortals willing to be led, a teacher for gods and men, an Exalted One, a Buddha, even as I am now. He, by himself, will thoroughly know and see, as it were face to face, this universe, with Its worlds of the spirits, Its Brahmas and Its Maras, and Its world of recluses and Brahmins, of princes and peoples, even as I now, by myself, thoroughly know and see them."[/FONT] (SOURCE)

Members of the Baha'i Faith believe that in the middle of the last century these prophecies actually were fulfilled and that the Promised One truly did appear.
Baha'u'llah, the Prophet founder of the Baha'i Faith, claims to be the Promised One whose coming was explicitly foretold, not only in the Old and the New Testaments.... but also in the prophecies of the Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Islamic and other religions
(SOURCE)

 

[AV1611VET]

And honestly, it happened in the very same story, AV. The same author fulfilled his own prophecy.

This is a weak example, even for you.

Nathan, at least seven years passed between Genesis 41:30 and Genesis 41:56, there is no way on earth you can classify this as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Nathan, at least seven years passed between Genesis 41:30 and Genesis 41:56, there is no way on earth you can classify this as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So, the author of Genesis took at least seven years to write from verse 30 to verse 56?

Sheesh -- even Dickens wrote quicker than that.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, no other religion has ever written prophecies? Are you going to back that up?

I meant 100% fulfilled prophecy.

Nostradamus has a book full of prophecies.