Why do we need stored memories in the brain?

[Sorn]

Er ... no.

No to fast. Awitch didn't really expand on what they understood a soul to be or the reasoning behind their very brief statement. Even so a clone is a copy of something. For all we know God may very well be able to copy or clone a soul. Not knowing what a soul is or Gods power it may be possible.

However I do not believe that God would ever clone a soul or that He ever sees a situation where He will need to or that He would ever want to. So in that respect it is a purely hypothetical thought experiment and always will be.

 

[Sorn]

Then souls are clonable.

Maybe but God would never clone or copy one. The whole point of having a soul or existing beyond death as a soul is so that the original person is preserved and can be resurrected. Its so that there is a continuous unbroken stream of existence for that person.

 

[AV1611VET]

How about we just stick with memory. Assuming something of us survives death, a spirit and that spirit retains memories. What makes a little sense to me is that spirit is already the deeper par of who we are. In fact it sustains the body with its life principle. The brain, in addition to running the body, is the point of interface with the soul. This gives us access to our spiritual nature including memories. So the hippocampus has a transcendent function. We can identify areas on it associated with memory storage. Area that link us to the soul which transcends time and space.

Until it's all erased.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

[Sorn]

How about we just stick with memory. Assuming something of us survives death, a spirit and that spirit retains memories. What makes a little sense to me is that spirit is already the deeper par of who we are. In fact it sustains the body with its life principle. The brain, in addition to running the body, is the point of interface with the soul. This gives us access to our spiritual nature including memories. So the hippocampus has a transcendent function. We can identify areas on it associated with memory storage. Area that link us to the soul which transcends time and space.

Until we understand a lot more of the brain structure, its just speculation at this point.
If we ever understood everything about the brain, maybe in the next couple of hundred years, even to the extent of modelling one perfectly in a computer, from the atomic level and we still could not explain consciousness then that would be strong evidence for the brain being more of an interface to something else where the real personality lay.

If the brain, in addition to running the body, was also as interface to the soul, then getting drunk would affect our motor skills but not our judgement, but yet alcohol and other substances can and do impair judgement, not just motor skills.

 

[AV1611VET]

No to fast. Awitch didn't really expand on what they understood a soul to be or the reasoning behind their very brief statement. Even so a clone is a copy of something. For all we know God may very well be able to copy or clone a soul. Not knowing what a soul is or Gods power it may be possible.

However I do not believe that God would ever clone a soul or that He ever sees a situation where He will need to or that He would ever want to. So in that respect it is a purely hypothetical thought experiment and always will be.

Makes for a neat song in the meantime:

 

[awitch]

Maybe but God would never clone or copy one. The whole point of having a soul or existing beyond death as a soul is so that the original person is preserved and can be resurrected. Its so that there is a continuous unbroken stream of existence for that person.

But the original premise was that the brain programs the heart. God wouldn't be required at that point.

 

[Sorn]

But the original premise was that the brain programs the heart. God wouldn't be required at that point.

Sorry, you've lost me, you're going to have to expand on your line of reasoning to enable me to understand what your point is or why you think soul cloning would be a real thing God would do.

 

[eleos1954]

Alright, so what of those who are dead, not in Christ, but will be resurrected for the judgement? Are they asleep too?

yes they are asleep too

Psalms 146:4 - His (mankind) breath goeth forth, he (mankind) returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

 

[Jok]

Knowledge will be increasing too rapidly for any human brain to understand and contribute to the process, so the computers will probably create nature preserves with humans in a hunter gatherer state or possibly just eliminate us entirely.

The programs are becoming so complex that the programmers themselves can’t keep up with the path that their algorithms take as their AI “Writes their own code”, but that phrase that seems to scare everyone of “Writing their own code” still all falls within the programmed algorithm. The programmers can’t keep up with knowing the outcomes because the programs are so complex, not because it’s thinking. There is no rebellion against the algorithm, the “Self writing” of its own code is just misleading language, it can only be code written under the rules of the algorithm, no actual decision making takes place in the strict sense of decision making. Computers can only mindlessly create nature preserves for humans to live in if an algorithm is created that makes such a process so, A Skynet type scenario would either be a total lie where someone is pulling the strings but claiming that the computers are thinking for themselves, or it will be another case of human stupidity where we specifically design something that can destroy us. If we create a program that results in “Once we press this button machines all over the world will murder us all” that doesn’t make the AI alive or conscious anymore than you would claim that the nukes that can kill us all if we press this button are alive and conscious. In both cases it’s just something created by us with a kill us all feature designed into it.

 

[Robban]

If the spirit survives the death of the body and has recollection of personality and memory, why do we need to store memories in a physical brain?

Memories and the brain,

What are memories, are they not what each of us have experienced daily?

What we have heard, seen, smelt, touched and tasted.

If I never had tasted coffee I would not be able to remember how it tasted.

Is not the brain a jamming devise capable of blocking out
certain events and items,

However, as the brain ages so too the ability to block out,
like the filter becomes worn out.

Hence, flashbacks, out of the blue one can experience certain events as vividly as if they were happening there and then.

Somtimes they are pleasant, sometimes not so pleasant.

As for the brain, how many thoughts does the average person have each day,

7,70,700,7000?

But we can only think one thought at a time.

(7,000 would be regarded, a scatterbrain)

 

[Jamdoc]

How about we just stick with memory. Assuming something of us survives death, a spirit and that spirit retains memories. What makes a little sense to me is that spirit is already the deeper par of who we are. In fact it sustains the body with its life principle. The brain, in addition to running the body, is the point of interface with the soul. This gives us access to our spiritual nature including memories. So the hippocampus has a transcendent function. We can identify areas on it associated with memory storage. Area that link us to the soul which transcends time and space.

You forget that we will have a physical resurrection.
Including a physical brain.

 

[Jamdoc]

Sadly, you have completely missed the point entirely twice. I guess i have to spell it out for you.
OBVIOUSLY i meant the brain of the person who is to survive goes into a body that formerly had a brain that did not survive. Or maybe the body is a body grown in a lab. Clearly, and again, obviously, but yet i have to spell it out, it will be your brain in another body, so you do not wake up in your body, unless it was a lab grown clone of your body. Even so, if you survive the operation you will eventually come to identify that new body as your body.

Just because it hasn't worked yet doesn't mean it won't at some future point should research into this area continue. Saying it can't be done is just making assumptions. Given what God allows to happen in this world He is not going to step in and stop a successful brain transplant operation.
The failures so far in animals are for some other as yet unknown, non-supernatural reason.

My point is, that the brain is the physical location where "you" are. every other body part can be replaced, but your brain cannot.
that's what I mean by transplantable.
transplantable parts are replaceable parts, you can't replace the brain, even when we have the resurrection God will be reconstituting your brain. It's not a replacement it's a resurrection and probably a tuneup/upgrade while still remaining your physical brain.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

You forget that we will have a physical resurrection.
Including a physical brain.

Why would we need it for memories if they reside n the spirit?

 

[Jamdoc]

Why would we need it for memories if they reside n the spirit?

like I said in my first post in this thread, that's like asking why we need a body at all.
God designed us to have one, and God has one and we're in His image.

 

[awitch]

Sorry, you've lost me, you're going to have to expand on your line of reasoning to enable me to understand what your point is or why you think soul cloning would be a real thing God would do.

So the conversation boiled down to this:
The soul is a thing that resides in human hearts.
When someone has a heart transplant, the brain, which somehow has a copy of the soul, rewrites it to the new heart like a putting a new hard drive in your computer and you just reinstall everything.
But reinstalling everything is a different instance than the image of the drive you had before.
You can restore a bare metal backup to the new drive/heart, but then the data/soul can be cloned.
Then god is not involved in the process where the brain can write the soul back to the heart.

I can't believe this is a conversation I'm having in the year 2020.

 

[bekkilyn]

So the conversation boiled down to this:
The soul is a thing that resides in human hearts.
When someone has a heart transplant, the brain, which somehow has a copy of the soul, rewrites it to the new heart like a putting a new hard drive in your computer and you just reinstall everything.
But reinstalling everything is a different instance than the image of the drive you had before.
You can restore a bare metal backup to the new drive/heart, but then the data/soul can be cloned.
Then god is not involved in the process where the brain can write the soul back to the heart.

I can't believe this is a conversation I'm having in the year 2020.

I zoned out on it a long time ago.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

like I said in my first post in this thread, that's like asking why we need a body at all.
God designed us to have one, and God has one and we're in His image.

Well the body gives us individuality in the physical realm which we would not have without it. That body needs control which the brain provides. But memories are another matter if they can go with a soul after death.

You believe God the Father has a physical brain?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The soul is a thing that resides in human hearts.
When someone has a heart transplant, the brain, which somehow has a copy of the soul,

That makes sense to you?

 

[awitch]

That makes sense to you?

Of course not.
But I'm playing along so we can all see what the implications are.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Of course not.
But I'm playing along so we can all see what the implications are.

OK,

BTW it seem to me that a materialist view of existence fails because we know that matter is not at all what it appears to be. Rather, it is mostly empty space characterized by some kind of vibrational energy. Even strings, if they in fact exist, makes us ask the question, "What are they made of?"