Why do some want to believe in Purgatory - even though it is against the Bible?

[ImaginaryDay]

1 Cor 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Context is key. Paul is clearly addressing ministers of the church who will come after him, building on the foundation, which is Christ. The work of those ministers will be tried, not of the laity.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

This passage is referring to works we did on earth either FOR the Lord or FOR ourselves. Only things we do for the Lord will have any weight in heaven.

Not at all. Check the context.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

The point is that we go through a purgation after death, those of us that are saved, and it won't be a cake walk.

The point is that the works of the ministers of Christ will be tried, whatever sort of work it is, and that won't be a cakewalk because of their higher calling as keepers of the Body of Christ.

 

[Open Heart]

1 Cor 3 never says the "person is burned"

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames.

 

[Open Heart]

Context is key. Paul is clearly addressing ministers of the church who will come after him, building on the foundation, which is Christ. The work of those ministers will be tried, not of the laity.

Nothing clear about that at all.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Nothing clear about that at all.

Then go back and read it.

 

[Albion]

Nothing clear about that at all.

But your citation is supposed to clearly establish that there is a Purgatory?? It doesn't even 'clearly' establish that it's the person rather than the works that will be burned, let alone address anything else that defines Purgatory.

 

[Kirsten]

Not at all. Check the context.

I have. There is no Scripture that even remotely infers there is such a place as purgatory.

 

[Albion]

I have. There is no Scripture that even remotely infers there is such a place as purgatory.

True. The best that can be done, as we've witnessed, is find a word here or there and claim that this 'proves' the existence of one of the most complicated and elaborate concepts to be found anywhere in church history. It's like proving that heaven exists because the Bible mentions death, or that Mary was born without original sin because the angel said she had found favor with God.

 

[Kirsten]

True. The best that can be done, as we've witnessed, is find a word here or there and claim that this 'proves' the existence of one of the most complicated and elaborate concepts to be found anywhere in church history. It's like proving that heaven exists because the Bible mentions death, or that Mary was born without original sin because the angel said she had found favor with God.

I beg to differ that purgatory is found in Jesus' Bride's history. By the time this teaching came about, those who promoted it had strayed from the gospel for the teachings of false prophets.
No person was born "not" a sinner, even Mary, according to God's word.

 

[BobRyan]

1 Cor 3 never mentions purgatory.
1 Cor 3 never says the "person is burned"
1 Cor 3 never says "the person is burned up after they die"
1 Cor 3 says the foundation of the building is Christ and each builder -- evangelists - add via his own doctrine either gold and silver or hay and straw depending on whether the doctrine is good or bad.
1 Cor 3 says that bad doctrine is removed from that building - bad material in the form of inferior teaching of the evangelist.

That chapter never talks about the evangelist being burned in fire after they die and before they get to heaven.

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames.

1Cor 3

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The text does not say -
1. We are ALL builders - nobody is the field - we all will suffer some lost after death in purgatory when some of our work/doctrine is tested.
2. The text does not say - we are burned by fire after we die - punishment for sins that we have committed in this life- where the temporal punishment for that sin was not received in this life.
3. Please work to get indulgences for your dead loved ones.

 

[Albion]

I beg to differ that purgatory is found in Jesus' Bride's history.

If you wish, but I didn't say it was, and I have no idea what you're thinking.

No person was born "not" a sinner, even Mary, according to God's word.

Christians are of two minds about that, but I was just making an illustration. It doesn't really require anyone to believe in original sin to see that the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception does not have a Scriptural basis.

 

[Albion]

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.

tests the work

14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

he loses his work but is saved himself. Our works do not save us.

Good presentation, Bob.


.

 

[Open Heart]

But your citation is supposed to clearly establish that there is a Purgatory?? It doesn't even 'clearly' establish that it's the person rather than the works that will be burned, let alone address anything else that defines Purgatory.

the person goes through the flames:
"If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames."

 

[Albion]

the person goes through the flames:
"If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames."

"as one escaping through the flames." That means unscathed by the flames--the exact opposite of being punished by being subjected to the flames.

.

 

[Open Heart]

he loses his work but is saved himself. Our works do not save us.

Yet only some works are burned up.

 

[Open Heart]

"as one escaping through the flames." That means unscathed by the flames--the exact opposite of being punished by being subjected to the flames.

.

It means you escape by passing through the flames.

 

[Albion]

Yet only some works are burned up.

This is entirely consistent with Christian thinking. As we know, our good works will be rewarded in the next life, even though they do not determine if we will be saved. Naturally, it would not make sense to burn up the works that are Godly and will be rewarded. The verse, as Bob reprinted it, makes this quite clear IMO.

 

[Berean777]

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Who is the FIRE?

Malachi 3:3
He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the LORD will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness,

Zechariah 13:9
This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'"

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The FIRE is the Holy Ghost who sanctifies us in this life time by purging our sins.

As it is written many are called to faith in Christ when they are baptised by water and are justified, though few are chosen and sanctified by the FIRE who is Spirit.

The SPIRIT is the REFINING FIRE.

Once we established who the fire is we can now interpret the versus.

The foundation of our faith is Christ and any good works that manifest from us is built upon this foundation rock whether it be gold (excellent), silver (good), wood (average). The Holy Ghost manifests our works and makes judgement on its merits whether it is excellent, good or average. If our manifested works complies with the Holy Ghost's standards then it is rewarded gold, silver or wood status. If any man's work falls below the Spirit's standards then it gets purged out, meaning rejected and that person's work is not given any merit. However because the Spirit purges that work that the Spirit considers unfruitful, then the Spirit saves that person by stopping that person in continuing with those fruitless works.

It all plays out in the here and now and it is the refiner of our souls who is moulding us to bear fruits that he rates according to his standards. Nothing about death mentioned here, everything is pro-life for the sanctification of the faithful who is being build up on the foundation cornerstone Christ Jesus.

 

[Rhamiel]

But your citation is supposed to clearly establish that there is a Purgatory?? It doesn't even 'clearly' establish that it's the person rather than the works that will be burned, let alone address anything else that defines Purgatory.

if it was clear, you would not need a church
Jesus would have not founded 12 Apostles, He would have invented the Printing Press and have given a list of what books are in the Canon

there is no one single "home run verse"
but it is a combination of many verses, common sense, the traditions of the Church, and the Magisterium giving definitive rulings

If Sola Scripture worked, we would not have dozens of denominations all teaching drastically different things that all claim to be "Bible Alone"