Why do some denominations not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved?

[squint]

Yes it is for sure,

You are welcome to bypass the facts of Paul and claim otherwise.

I can't in 'good conscience,' do that.

 

[Rick Otto]

Okay, then how can OSAS possibly be true?

The same way it's true that goats don't become sheep and lost sheep don't become goats.

 

[squint]

The same way it's true that goats don't become sheep and lost sheep don't become goats.

And bad trees do not produce good fruit nor are bad trees changed into good trees nor are vessels of dishonor changed into vessels of honor, etc etc etc.

These are all related matters.

p.s. nor are children of the devil changed into children of God

 

[Gibs]

This issue is not, What does someone's denomination believe? but what do I believe from the Scriptures?

Romans 8.38-39 is a great promise.

I would take that a little further, it is not what ANY denomination teaches and has people believe but is whether we actually and TRULY believe what the scripture actually is stating and telling us and there is a promise to set us on the track of ALL truth,

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The big problem can be seen that ALL do not have "The Spirit of Truth", Jesus Christ the Comforter dwelling within!

If it were that He dwelt in all then ALL would be in unity and harmony and so we see there is a great problem in Christianity!

 

[Marvin Knox]

Because unlike OSAS, I do not know if I will be saved, no matter how many "good deeds" i do.

Ahh - there it is then. You need to believe on Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.

You lack faith!

You can only be justified through faith because without faith it is impossible to please God.


You condemn yourself because you know deep inside that your good deeds will never save you.

You have rejected and railed against believing on Jesus as your only hope of salvation.

How's that working out for you?

Obviously it brings you no peace.

You sound very much like Martin Luther and many others coming out of the dark ages of Christianity.

The only remedy for your dilemma is to believe on Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.

 

[squint]

Ahh - there it is then. You need to believe on Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.

You lack faith!

You can only be justified through faith because without faith it is impossible to please God.


You condemn yourself because you know deep inside that your good deeds will never save you.

You have rejected and railed against believing on Jesus as your only hope of salvation.

How's that working out for you?

Obviously it brings you no peace.

You sound very much like Martin Luther and many others coming out of the dark ages of Christianity.

The only remedy for your dilemma is to believe on Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.

I love you 'closer' baptists man....after my own heart...

 

[SolomonVII]

I have often likened the Peace of Christ as the peace of mind that comes with having a clear conscience. There is probably some truth to that, but the fact is when it becomes a question of judging ourselves in not only in terms of what we have done, but also in terms of what we have failed to do, there is always going to be holes and plenty of room for self-recriminations.

Defining the peace of Christ through the gratitude of what God has done for us, while we were yet sinners, very possibly might have more potential to bring true peace of mind for all of us.
It is a lighter yoke to be under, for sure.

 

[Gibs]

We are appointed to die once but in Jesus Christ we can have eternal life today but it is forfeited if we fall away from Him being the sole, soul Master in us.

We must remain His wholly or we will be none of His, It is either "wholly thine" or it will be "none of thine".

We must come and stay so as with Him, can rightly state, "the evil one hath nothing in me."

 

[catholichomeschooler]

The same way it's true that goats don't become sheep and lost sheep don't become goats.

The difference between the goats and the sheep in Matthew 25 is their actions, not their beliefs.

You become what you practice.

 

[Albion]

I have often likened the Peace of Christ as the peace of mind that comes with having a clear conscience. There is probably some truth to that, but the fact is when it becomes a question of judging ourselves in not only in terms of what we have done, but also in terms of what we have failed to do, there is always going to be holes and plenty of room for self-recriminations.

Defining the peace of Christ through the gratitude of what God has done for us, while we were yet sinners, very possibly might have more potential to bring true peace of mind for all of us.
It is a lighter yoke to be under, for sure.

Agreed. This is why I have described the religious lives of those who subscribe to the "Works Righteousness" POV as something that makes me sad...and I was a member of a church that instilled it in me.

It took some time to realize that it is GOD who decides, not me. When that dawned, a long period of worrying and wondering was lifted from me and I was suddenly free to follow Christ's teachings without any concern about what it would get me, how much of it was expected, which actions counted and which did not, and what would take it all away tomorrow if I faltered. But you can't tell that to most people who still think they are supposed to prove themselves to God in order to be saved.

 

[Rick Otto]

The difference between the goats and the sheep in Matthew 25 is their actions, not their beliefs.

You become what you practice.

You are what God made you.
Substantiate your claim with the example of goats morphing into sheep or vice versa, from scripture and your claim may have merit.

 

[Rick Otto]

Agreed. This is why I have described the religious lives of those who subscribe to the "Works Righteousness" POV as something that makes me sad...and I was a member of a church that instilled it in me.

It took some time to realize that it is GOD who decides, not me. When that dawned, a long period of worrying and wondering was lifted from me and I was suddenly free to follow Christ's teachings without any concern about what it would get me, how much of it was expected, which actions counted and which did not, and what would take it all away tomorrow if I faltered. But you can't tell that to most people who still think they are supposed to prove themselves to God in order to be saved.

So true.

 

[Gibs]

Agreed. This is why I have described the religious lives of those who subscribe to the "Works Righteousness" POV as something that makes me sad...and I was a member of a church that instilled it in me.

It took some time to realize that it is GOD who decides, not me. When that dawned, a long period of worrying and wondering was lifted from me and I was suddenly free to follow Christ's teachings without any concern about what it would get me, how much of it was expected, which actions counted and which did not, and what would take it all away tomorrow if I faltered. But you can't tell that to most people who still think they are supposed to prove themselves to God in order to be saved.

It isn't a matter of proving oneself to God, it is but a matter of how much we truly love God and our fellow man.

When we truly love God first and best it is our pleasure and desire from the heart to be of and for Him in all things. When this is true His law of love becomes our law of love and then we love to do. It is not galling or grating in any way as love only can and will fulfill the law both to God and our fellow man.

Then we become what is known as a totally free man in Christ as then we are fully free within His will for us. Nothing outside His will we want to do.

This then is the new man we have become after death of self at full and complete repentance and reborn anew of His Spirit. This rebirth is real and a must!

 

[Albion]

It isn't a matter of proving oneself to God, it is but a matter of how much we truly love God and our fellow man.

It's a matter of proving oneself worthy by the performance of meritorious acts. Does that make it clearer for you?

 

[Gibs]

It's a matter of proving oneself worthy by the performance of meritorious acts. Does that make it clearer for you?

No, that is not the Way He has made and His Way is the Only Way and it is done only by the service of love from our hearts. Love only can and will fulfill the law and love only begets obedience, not force or works to try to comply.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

You are what God made you.
Substantiate your claim with the example of goats morphing into sheep or vice versa, from scripture and your claim may have merit.

My claim is that our actions determine whether we are sheep or goats.

Jesus separates us by our actions, not beliefs, in Matthew 25.

 

[squint]

My claim is that our actions determine whether we are sheep or goats.

Jesus separates us by our actions, not beliefs, in Matthew 25.

And any honest sheep will eventually come to the conclusion that we don't always do sheep works, and when we don't we are doing goat works.

 

[Marvin Knox]

And any honest sheep will eventually come to the conclusion that we don't always do sheep works, and when we don't we are doing goat works.

"BAAAH" "BAAAH"

Sometimes it's hard for us to tell the difference between the wooly little buggers.

 

[Albion]

No, that is not the Way He has made and His Way is the Only Way and it is done only by the service of love from our hearts. Love only can and will fulfill the law and love only begets obedience, not force or works to try to comply.

Did you miss the point entirely? No one is against works. Everyone believes that performing works of love is Christ-like and what a disciple ought to do. Whether or not this earns you salvation is the question.

 

[mark kennedy]

Why do some denominations, such as the Church of God, not believe in Once Saved Always Saved, even though the Bible clearly outlines that salvation is eternal? That is, salvation is by grace through faith and it is something that cannot be taken from you.

While I believe that grace covers such Christians and that they are genuinely saved for putting their faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, it must be somewhat troublesome to think that backsliding will result in you becoming detached from the Lord. It seems like it would hinder someone's growth in the Lord rather than promote obedience.

The thing is that God chooses us and we respond. He doesn't let go of us once we're a Child of God.

Sometimes it seems like such denominations haven't viewed the Bible in its entire scope, interpreting. What is your take on this subject?

This ties into the question of eternal security and I have to ask the question, is there any other kind of salvation worth having? What's the alternative, temporary salvation. The standard at the final judgment is the righteousness of God in Christ, there can be no question about that. The problem is know that your 'in Christ' and the New Testament is crystal clear on how you know that:

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. (Romans 8:14-17)​

I can't really know that about you but the Holy Spirit can show me about me. This isn't a minor issue, judging someone else in this regard is strongly warned against:

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:5-9, see Deut. 30:12-14)​

Don't ask the question, not even in your heart. What you believe in your heart is the key to your salvation.

There are some issues about what happens before conversion, there is a point where the voice of God is understood and the hearer rejects the message:

So, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,
where your ancestors tested and tried me,
though for forty years they saw what I did.
That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. (Hebrews 3:7-12)​

So is this saying you can be saved and then turn away? I don't think so, it's clearly tying faith to salvation, nothing changes because someone might decide not to believe. Faith unlocks salvation and of course, it is predicated on continuing in the faith.

Well, the obvious question is how we know we have saving faith, the kind that lasts. Both James and Paul make some disturbing statements in this regard and both are over the Agape (love) feasts of the early church. It seems the rich thought it was fine to treat the poor badly. Both James and Paul tell them that saving faith does not behave itself like that:

For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. (I Cor. 11:29,30)​

It's not fire and brimstone but it sounds like sickness and death.

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” (James 2:14-18)​

Is that saving faith? I'm not seeing the basis for losing one's faith or salvation due to misconduct. What is more likely the case is there are those who have seen the Gospel and turned away in unbelief. The believer, while their salvation isn't in jeopardy can face sever judgement, even the destruction of the body for the salvation of the soul.

Once saved always saved is a clutch phrase, salvation provides eternal security or it's not saving faith. A believer can no more change their mind about Christ then a child of perdition can change their mind about sin. You can chock out the word before it has a chance to mature but salvation is a permanent new creation, only you and the Holy Spirit can know if that has happened to you. You trust God to judge the world and none of us are as serious about saving sinners then God himself. Let God judge what only God can know, what you need to know about salvation must come from the Holy Spirit of promise or you have nothing.

Grace and peace,
Mark