Why do some Christian's dismiss evolution?

[CaptainMercy]

You needn't be so offended. He did not say you were uneducated. He said your demonstrated knowledge of evolution was on a par with Jr. High. You can be highly educated and still know little about many things you did not cover in your college career.

How much of your college level education was in biology? How much of the biology course was devoted to evolution?

A degree doesn't mean having expert knowledge in all fields. A person with an MBA or an LLD may still have a Jr. High level of knowledge on evolution, because studying evolution is not a requirement for a degree in business or law.

Are yo implying that a person can't study such a subject with an open mind without going to listen to lectures in a class room by a professor that i biased in his opinion? I would like to call your attention to the fact that I began my college career with an intent to Major in Accounting and Minor in Historical Geology (you know the study of rocks). As far as biology, yes I tolok the required courses IN COLLEGE so are you saying that those college course were on a junior high level? What are you geting at? Besides all this, my being a minister of the gospel for a nuimber of years has lead me to many such discussions and research to gain the knowledge. Maybe I don't use the jargon you are hoping for but does that make me ignorant of the subjext? My questions are legitament and are ones that have yet to be answered by evolutionist world wide! You say I'm ignorant of science, I say there is enough science presented in scripture to equal a doctoriates if one can learn of it! The only field of science that I can not fathom being supported in scripture is evolutionism!!!

 

[Smidlee]

Shernren the big assumption is did God created the universe according to man-made mathematics and human logic. There is many examples in nature where it seems nature uses mathematics but it hard to pin down where these mathematics come from. As far as scriptures it claims God build the universe by His Word not by human mathematics or human logic. Mathematics is the tool human uses to understand the world around us but it a far cry to say it what reality is builded upon. This is why man produces some far out theory like the Big bang and continue to support it even it the math doesn't add up.

While I agree that according to our understanding and logic it seems the universe is older than a few thousand years (I wouldn't dogmatic claim it 13 billion year old since it based on a very shaky theory) yet I'm not too sure the universe is built upon human understanding. It's possible that true reality is beyond us understanding.

So if man is deceived it's because of his own reasoning (which man has been guilty of this so many times in history) and can't be blamed on God.

 

[KerrMetric]

Are yo implying that a person can't study such a subject with an open mind without going to listen to lectures in a class room by a professor that i biased in his opinion?

99.99% of people cannot self teach themselves to proficiency. You might glean the basics but the practical ability to do science at a graduate/professional level is not going to happen

Maybe I don't use the jargon you are hoping for but does that make me ignorant of the subjext?

Using terminology in an incorrect manner does mean ignorance of the subject. I'm sorry but this is inescapable. If I said Chevrolet make an excellent VW Bug you'd believe I was wrong wouldn't you? Ad you'd be right to conclude I was ignorant about automobiles.

My questions are legitament and are ones that have yet to be answered by evolutionist world wide!

Your question about monkeys not talking is the kind of question that causes scientists to roll their eyes and wonder why the public is so scientifically stupid. And this includes Christian scientists. Don't tell me you are scientifically versed when you make howlers like that.

You say I'm ignorant of science, I say there is enough science presented in scripture to equal a doctoriates if one can learn of it!

And this is why nonsense perpetuates itself. The sum total of Biblical science knowledge can be written on a postage stamp. In fact the Bible has some ridiculous errors from a science standpoint.

The only field of science that I can not fathom being supported in scripture is evolutionism!!!

And that is all you have is it not? When it comes down to it you have nothing except a personal appeal that you cannot fathom it. Yet we already know from your posts you don't understand it. This is a path of foolishness. At least learn what it is you don't like. You just object to it not from a foundation of knowledge but a because it sounds like you wont like it.

You know what, I'll wager money you equate evolutionism as including Big Bang cosmologyand abiogenesis.


Finally let me state, I am not insulting you and none such is intended. You have already shown yourself to be thin skinned in an earlier post. I am calling you ignorant of science in the sense you haven't the training or knowledge to debate this. This is not to impugn your character or hurt your feelings.

Peace.

 

[CaptainMercy]

Please show me a science text where this claim is made.

This is not science and not part of the theory of evolution. You did not get this idea from a science text or teacher.

One of the greatedt science books of all times. The scriptures! The Bible! God's Word!

What makes you think all species should follow the same evolutionary path? Evolution produces bio-diversity. You don't get diversity by having every species evolve along the same lines.

Sin produces diversity too!

 

[shernren]

Shernren the big assumption is did God created the universe according to man-made mathematics and human logic. There is many examples in nature where it seems nature uses mathematics but it hard to pin down where these mathematics come from. As far as scriptures it claims God build the universe by His Word not by human mathematics or human logic. Mathematics is the tool human uses to understand the world around us but it a far cry to say it what reality is builded upon. This is why man produces some far out theory like the Big bang and continue to support it even it the math doesn't add up.

While I agree that according to our understanding and logic it seems the universe is older than a few thousand years (I wouldn't dogmatic claim it 13 billion year old since it based on a very shaky theory) yet I'm not too sure the universe is built upon human understanding. It's possible that true reality is beyond us understanding.

So if man is deceived it's because of his own reasoning (which man has been guilty of this so many times in history) and can't be blamed on God.

This deserves at least a chuckle. When we try to use evolution to understand the world, we are being deceived by our own reasoning, and true reality is beyond us understanding. But when creationists try to whip up some sort of science, all the great old Christian scientists are wheeled out in support of the idea that hey, maybe the universe is understandable after all (as long as you understand it our way, the implicit qualifier goes) and Christianity really has absolutely nothing against science.

You can't have it both ways. Either the world was made to be understood - and the whole old-universe-old-earth edifice does a lot better at helping us understand it than what creationism has had to offer so far - or the world wasn't made to be understood and all that science has achieved so far is just sheer coincidence or brutal deception.

I'm curious though - what exactly are you referring to when you say "it is hard to pin down where the mathematics are coming from"? As far as I know, for physics at least, mathematics come from reasonable physical models of nature. One postulates that momentum is constant in a system not acted upon by outside forces (physical model), and verifies it with experiments, and then draws up a mathematical model (the law of conservation of momentum. My examples are rather rusty right now as it's past midnight here.) Or are you referring to any specific difficulty?

Dear blessedvalley, the most charitable thing I can say right now is that whatever you learned of science in your formal education, none of it has been brought to this forum. And after that the most charitable thing I can do is to ignore you altogether. Sigh.

 

[CaptainMercy]

Dear blessedvalley, the most charitable thing I can say right now is that whatever you learned of science in your formal education, none of it has been brought to this forum. And after that the most charitable thing I can do is to ignore you altogether. Sigh.

That is your choice!

It seems to me that the very nature of the opening question draws the attention of the discussion to more than science to support the claim or quisitive remark "Why do some Christians....." ! If we are not allowed to express our views and be accepted in this thread then you should have made it clear from the beginning statement that you did not want the YEC views brought up! I for one would have honored that request! But since you did not make that clear, I have presented questions and comments on a biblical standpoint to demise of being ridiculed and ignored by those claiming to be my brothers and sisters in Christ. Maybe it would be best if you would make it clear that one point of view (whether as "intellectually sound" as you would like or not) is not acceptable noe matter who posts it! So farweel my friends!!!

 

[gluadys]

Are yo implying that a person can't study such a subject with an open mind without going to listen to lectures in a class room by a professor that i biased in his opinion? I would like to call your attention to the fact that I began my college career with an intent to Major in Accounting and Minor in Historical Geology (you know the study of rocks). As far as biology, yes I tolok the required courses IN COLLEGE so are you saying that those college course were on a junior high level? What are you geting at?

Just what I said. Education level in general does not mean one is educated on a specific subject. And, no---one does not have to do all one's learning in a classroom. I read books for education in things I didn't study in university. Like yourself I took only the required college course in biology--and the prof didn't even cover the chapter on evolution in class, nor were we tested on it.

So your credentials are a little bit better than junior high. But your presentation of evolution is not. The questions you ask are those of a person who has not begun to understand what the key elements of evolution are.

So.....

Besides all this, my being a minister of the gospel for a nuimber of years has lead me to many such discussions and research to gain the knowledge.

....where are you doing your research?

Evidently, it is your research that has filled your head with inanities about evolution. Time to start doing your research from other sources that do not mislead you when it comes to evolution.

Maybe I don't use the jargon you are hoping for but does that make me ignorant of the subjext?

In a way, yes. Learning the terminology comes with learning the subject. Ever watch the credits at the end of a movie? One of the positions they always mention is the "key grip". Do you know what the key grip is? If you do, you have more knowledge of film-making than the average person. (I only found out less than a year ago, when my daughter began dating a person studying film-making.) It's the same in any field--business people, electricians, librarians, all have their specialized vocabulary and knowing what some of the basic terminology is indicates a basic knowledge of the subject.

My questions are legitament and are ones that have yet to be answered by evolutionist world wide!

Your questions assume things about evolution that are not so. You need to unlearn these assumptions and re-ask the questions based on corrected information. Unwillingness to do that indicates either fear of learning what the actual theory of evolution says or egotism.

You say I'm ignorant of science, I say there is enough science presented in scripture to equal a doctoriates if one can learn of it!

There may be, but it is not the purpose of scripture to present a course in science. So it would take a good deal of study to ferret out the science and present it in a way that allows for a comparison of biblical and extra-biblical science.

The only field of science that I can not fathom being supported in scripture is evolutionism!!!

"Evolutionism" is a weasel word. Do you mean "evolution"? Do you mean "the theory of evolution"? Do you mean a philosophy developed on the basis of evolution? Do you mean faith in evolution? What is evolutionism, in your view?

Now as to evolution, that is an observed fact of nature. I don't know that scripture ever alludes to it one way or the other. That is not a big problem, since the bible does not claim to contain reference to all facts. As far as I know, it never mentions pianos, or bananas or the northern lights either. Why would the non-appearance of a scientific field in a book which makes no claims to be an encyclopedia be of any importance? Why would it be of any importance that the bible support a scientific theory? The purpose of the bible is to teach about God and his love for us even while we are sinners estranged from him, and to present the gospel of salvation. Why would you ask that it also provide support for atomic theory as well? What does that have to do with the gospel?

 

[gluadys]

Please show me a science text where this claim is made.

One of the greatedt science books of all times. The scriptures! The Bible! God's Word!

Oh? So where in the bible does it say that monkeys are a lower level of humankind?

Here is the comment I was referring to.

Who made the monkey? Who created the ape? If they are a lower level of humankind as evolutionist teach ..

Evolution does not say that monkeys are a lower form of humankind. It does not say that non-human apes are either. When you claim that evolutionist teaches this you are either mistaken or lying. I don't get the impression that you are lying.

Sin produces diversity too!

 

[CaptainMercy]

"Evolutionism" is a weasel word. Do you mean "evolution"? Do you mean "the theory of evolution"? Do you mean a philosophy developed on the basis of evolution? Do you mean faith in evolution? What is evolutionism, in your view?

It seems we are dealing with more than any of these things since the question is one of "Why do some Christians....."! By posing such a qquestion means that according to TE thinking there is no room for any other way to be right! Your aguments are flawed. You say that because we are not educated in the same degree as a TE that we are to ignorant to discuss this so why do you pose such a question for us to review if we can not make "sensible arguments" in support of our YEC beliefs.

Now as to evolution, that is an observed fact of nature. I don't know that scripture ever alludes to it one way or the other. That is not a big problem, since the bible does not claim to contain reference to all facts. As far as I know, it never mentions pianos, or bananas or the northern lights either. Why would the non-appearance of a scientific field in a book which makes no claims to be an encyclopedia be of any importance? Why would it be of any importance that the bible support a scientific theory? The purpose of the bible is to teach about God and his love for us even while we are sinners estranged from him, and to present the gospel of salvation. Why would you ask that it also provide support for atomic theory as well? What does that have to do with the gospel?

What do pianos, bananas and Northern Lights have to do with evolution? You twist statements to support your argument. The reason I mentioned the atomic theory was because the argument at the time was that there were no cells because they were not mentioned in the bible. None of this has anything to do with Gospel, NOT EVEN EVOLUTION! So why are you using this as an argument that my thinking can not be right because you say so! Read Paul writing to the Romans here:

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[stumpjumper]

It seems we are dealing with more than any of these things since the question is one of "Why do some Christians....."! By posing such a qquestion means that according to TE thinking there is no room for any other way to be right!

Well since it was I who started this thread many moons ago, I will address this statement. I do think that there is much more that we do not know than that we do know. It is certain that there is much more we will learn about our past and about our natural world. Unfortunately, what we currently know and have discovered has shown that a recent creation of all kinds in the current form is not even remotely accurate. If that is your position then our investigation of the world has shown clearly and decisively that it is wrong. Now maybe we will find in the future that natural selection is wrong or that God programmed irreducibly complex cells like Behe thinks and that this was part of the mechanism for our emergence. In that case, my current view would be wrong and would need updating. When that happens I will be in your shoes

Your aguments are flawed. You say that because we are not educated in the same degree as a TE that we are to ignorant to discuss this so why do you pose such a question for us to review if we can not make "sensible arguments" in support of our YEC beliefs.

Most of the TE's here are aware of YEC beliefs and arguments. I myself have spent a lot of time that I will never see again reading through AIG's webpage and through a few ID books. I have not gone back to see your arguments but unfortunately most of the other arguments by YEC's do not really reflect the views of TE's and show a lack of awareness of the science behind evolution.

The reason I mentioned the atomic theory was because the argument at the time was that there were no cells because they were not mentioned in the bible. None of this has anything to do with Gospel, NOT EVEN EVOLUTION!

I am sure all TE's would agree with you on that. Our biological origin has nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You can live out your life as a Christian and not worry about YEC or evolution. So if that is the case then why should Christians push views such as young earth creation and a literal reading of Genesis? Especially when YEC goes against all knowledge of our past and pushes many people from Christianity and from following a Christian life.

 

[gluadys]

It seems we are dealing with more than any of these things since the question is one of "Why do some Christians....."! By posing such a qquestion means that according to TE thinking there is no room for any other way to be right!

Reality is reality. There is no way for anything that does not conform to reality to be right. Like philip k. dick says :"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

When you stop believing in a young earth, it goes away. When you stop believing in evolution, it does not go away. And when you stop believing in God, God does not go away either.

Your aguments are flawed. You say that because we are not educated in the same degree as a TE that we are to ignorant to discuss this so why do you pose such a question for us to review if we can not make "sensible arguments" in support of our YEC beliefs.

see stumpjumper's reply, since he began the thread.

What do pianos, bananas and Northern Lights have to do with evolution?

Like evolution, they are not mentioned in the bible, yet they are still demonstrably true.

None of this has anything to do with Gospel, NOT EVEN EVOLUTION!

Right. And that is the point. You don't even look to the bible to support any of these things. So why do you look to the bible to support evolution? It falls into the same category of real, true things that have nothing to do with the gospel and are not mentioned in the bible.

Evolution is not about religion, faith, the gospel or anything else God felt it important enough to reveal in scripture. Evolution is science. Most of what science deals with is trivial from the perspective of faith. But that doesn't make it untrue.

So why are you using this as an argument that my thinking can not be right because you say so!

Not because I say so. You are making assumptions about evolution that are simply not true. And if you choose to check out what I have said, you will soon find that this is not my personal opinion. Please do feel free to check it out. You may not agree with what you find, but you will at least be better prepared to participate in the debate when your arguments are not tainted by erroneous assumptions.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead;

Amen! Evolution, IMO, is a very powerful testament to the eternal power and wisdom of God. Every time I learn something new relative to evolution, I am humbled, fascinated and amazed. I don't see how anyone can look at the process and history of evolution and not praise God.

Obviously, not everyone agrees with me on this, but that is how I see it.

 

[CaptainMercy]

Evolution is not about religion, faith, the gospel or anything else God felt it important enough to reveal in scripture. Evolution is science. Most of what science deals with is trivial from the perspective of faith. But that doesn't make it untrue.

Amen, evolution has nothing to do with religion, so why the question at the start? You know "Why do some Christians ....." It seems that the question is making it a religious topic.

Not because I say so. You are making assumptions about evolution that are simply not true. And if you choose to check out what I have said, you will soon find that this is not my personal opinion. Please do feel free to check it out. You may not agree with what you find, but you will at least be better prepared to participate in the debate when your arguments are not tainted by erroneous assumptions.

No assumptions made about evolution! I discount it all together. I'll ask you again as I adked earlier, is God evolving?

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

If man is made in the image of God then how could he still be evolving?

Amen! Evolution, IMO, is a very powerful testament to the eternal power and wisdom of God. Every time I learn something new relative to evolution, I am humbled, fascinated and amazed. I don't see how anyone can look at the process and history of evolution and not praise God.

Hog wash! Evolution is an abstract idea of human kind to try to explain existance without attributing soveriegnty to God! How can anyone take an abstract scientific discipline and explain the absolute existance of God and His power?

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

Job 38:9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

Job 38:10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,

Job 38:11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Job 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Job 38:14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Job 38:15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

Job 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?

Job 38:17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?

Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

Job 38:19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,

Job 38:20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

Job 38:21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?

Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,

Job 38:23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

Job 38:24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?

Job 38:25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;

Job 38:26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;

Job 38:27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

Job 38:28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?

Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?

Job 38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.

Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

Job 38:34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?

Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?

Job 38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

Job 38:37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,

Job 38:38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?

Job 38:39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,

Job 38:40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?

Job 38:41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

 

[gluadys]

Amen, evolution has nothing to do with religion, so why the question at the start? You know "Why do some Christians ....." It seems that the question is making it a religious topic.

Well, some Christians do dismiss evolution, and since it is not a religious topic, I guess the OP wonders why. Those who dismiss evolution do seem to treat it as a religious topic (as you do below) and attribute theological relevance to evolution that IMO it simply does not have. So the question is a valid one. Why dismiss the science of evolution since it has no relevance to faith? There is nothing in the theory of evolution which requires that one become agnostic, much less atheist. Most Christians have integrated evolution into their world-view without changing any major aspect of scriptural revelation. So what is with those who dismiss evolution?

No assumptions made about evolution! I discount it all together.

But the erroneous assumptions you make about evolution are the basis for discounting it. Or maybe it is the erroneous assumptions you make about scripture.

I'll ask you again as I adked earlier, is God evolving?

God is not a physical being with genes who makes copies of himself. So there is no mechanism for God to evolve. God is also unique. For evolution to occur you need a population of gods, engaged in reproduction. Evolution does not affect individuals. It affects species.

If man is made in the image of God then how could he still be evolving?

Since God is not a physical being, the image of God that is part of human nature is not manifested in human physical nature, but in human spiritual nature. Evolution is a physical process and does not pertain to spiritual nature, but to human physical nature.

This is really so obvious, I don't understand why creationists can't figure it out for themselves.

Hog wash! Evolution is an abstract idea of human kind to try to explain existance without attributing soveriegnty to God!

This is an example of those erroneous assumptions about evolution. Here are three errors embedded in this single sentence.

Evolution is not an abstract idea. It is an observed natural process.

The theory of evolution does not try to explain existence. It tries to explain how new species appear and how species are related to each other. Trying to explain existence is a quest of philosophy and theology, not biological science.

The theory of evolution does not challenge the sovereignty of God as any scientist who is a believer can affirm as well as all theistic evolutionists who affirm the sovereignty of God over evolution as over all natural processes.

How can anyone take an abstract scientific discipline and explain the absolute existance of God and His power?

Again, evolution is not abstract. It is an objectively observed natural process.

But no one is trying to use evolution, or any part of science to explain the absolute existance of God and his power. That cannot be done with scientific tools.

However, as Paul says in Romans, the created world is a testimony (not an explanation) to the existence of God and his glory. The more we know about nature--including the process of evolution--the more amazing it becomes and the more powerful its testimony. At least to those whose hearts are open in faith.

We can, of course, choose to block out this testimony and see only nature while remaining blind to its creator. That won't change any genuine science. A Christian astronomer and an atheist astronomer will get the same readings on a spectrograph. A Christian paleontologist and an atheist paleontologist will see the same skeletal features in a fossil.

But the scientist who is Christian will have ever more reason to praise God for the marvels of creation.

 

[Numenor]

If man is made in the image of God then how could he still be evolving?

Since God is not a physical being, the image of God that is part of human nature is not manifested in human physical nature, but in human spiritual nature. Evolution is a physical process and does not pertain to spiritual nature, but to human physical nature.

This is really so obvious, I don't understand why creationists can't figure it out for themselves.

Some posts here have displayed a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of God. When God made us "in his image" it was nothing to do with our physical makeup since God is a spirit. God is also eternal and cannot be said to 'waste' time since he exists outside of it.

 

[Critias]

Some posts here have displayed a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of God. When God made us "in his image" it was nothing to do with our physical makeup since God is a spirit. God is also eternal and cannot be said to 'waste' time since he exists outside of it.

Is it?

Jesus Christ is in the very nature God Himself. Yet, it is stated that Jesus is the image of God. (Col 1:15) 1 Corinthians 11:7 man, normal man, is the image of God.

So, if Jesus Christ is God, how is He the image of God if it has nothing to do with the physical when He is already God?

The answer is more complex then I think many realize. The 'in His image' is more than just spirit, mind, emotion, etc. It also has to do with the physical.

 

[KerrMetric]

The 'in His image' is more than just spirit, mind, emotion, etc. It also has to do with the physical.

What sect teaches this outside of the 15th century?

 

[Numenor]

Is it?

Yes.

Jesus Christ is in the very nature God Himself. Yet, it is stated that Jesus is the image of God. (Col 1:15) 1 Corinthians 11:7 man, normal man, is the image of God.

So, if Jesus Christ is God, how is He the image of God if it has nothing to do with the physical when He is already God?

The answer is more complex then I think many realize. The 'in His image' is more than just spirit, mind, emotion, etc. It also has to do with the physical.

When Christ was incarnated in the flesh did he take on the likeness of Man or of God? If God's being has a physical aspect then how was this manifested prior to Creation? Is being 'born again' being born of the Spirit or born of the flesh?

Good to see you posting here again.

 

[Critias]

Yes.



When Christ was incarnated in the flesh did he take on the likeness of Man or of God? If God's being has a physical aspect then how was this manifested prior to Creation? Is being 'born again' being born of the Spirit or born of the flesh?

Good to see you posting here again.

Physical doesn't just mean a body. We must first realize this and understand that something physical doesn't mean the body.

Jesus Christ was and is God. When He was man, He was God. He wasn't just the image of God, He was God. So, since we know the form Jesus took wasn't God, but His Spirit was, then image must be something other than the spirit in these verses. It very well encompasses the spirit, but is more then that.

There are physical aspects that are also 'in the image of God'. Acts of love can be physical acts. Acts of mercy can be physical acts. These stem from the Spirit and are carried out by the physical.

It seems we tend to just cut off the physical completely, which can be used to justify our evil acts as something not of us, spiritually. That would be incorrect. For sin starts in the mind and is carried out in the physical. So too are acts of good.

Being born again, is to be born of the Spirit. The resurrection, is the resurrection of our previously fleshly bodies made into spiritual bodies. Jesus Christ demonstrated this.

 

[KerrMetric]

Born again is a human phrasing.

 

[Critias]

John 3:3
"Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.""