Why do some Christian's dismiss Creationism?

[Dannager]

Can you swear "I'm a good Christian/Catholic, I believe in everything God told me" with your hand on Bible?

I can recite the Nicene creed truthfully, which is the only requirement for being Christian that this board requires. But yes, for the record, I can swear all those things with my hand on the Bible.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

I can recite the Nicene creed truthfully, which is the only requirement for being Christian that this board requires. But yes, for the record, I can swear all those things with my hand on the Bible.

first no one doubts you're Christian.
second your attitude toward swearing shows you don't take God very seriously.
God's words(directly spoken by God):

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I don't think anyone would deny a specific sentence said by God in the Bible. you know the offence to say something yourself and say God says it. we're not God, nor the Bible writers.

 

[Dannager]

Catholics don't think John Kerry or Paul Martin will make it to heaven if unrepentant.
Any Catholic disagree with me?

They have the correct belief of Jesus is God and the wrong belief of abortion/homosexuality etc are OK.

Yeah, I disagree with you. I don't think John Kerry or Paul Martin will be either accepted or denied entry to heaven, because I don't presume to know God's mind or the whole lives of either of those people. It is not my place, nor your place, nor any other mortal man's place to judge whether someone is fit or not to enter heaven.

 

[Dannager]

What you and everyone else observed so far are all microevolution which is fact. But you then say macroevolution is right because there is microevolution.
stop confusing concepts. microevolution happens but it has a boundary, it never goes far. macroevolution the crossing of species never happens.
Even if you can produce more body hair than every one of us you're still human, get it. that's microevolution but you can never develop wings which is macroevolution.

Microevolution is fact. Macroevolution is fact. There is no boundary between the two. If you think that such a boundary exists, you need to provide evidence of the biological mechanism that prevents mutations from accumulating to the point where two populations can become genetically incompatible with each other. Until you are able to show evidence of that mechanism, macroevolution will continue to be fact.

 

[Dannager]

simple for me,
[bible]

Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[/bible]

a dog can change into a wolf or vice versa. it's microevolution. they're of the same kind.
God never say ... after his species
a dog can cross-breed with a wolf. but can you cross-breed with a rock or an ameba?

now it's your turn. what's your definition?

Did you miss the part where you were asked for a scientific source?

And what the heck are you talking about when you mention "cross-breed with a rock"? Rocks aren't even made of biomatter. Evolution doesn't deal with rocks.

 

[shernren]

http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm

Thai, where in the Bible does it say that God will punish us for what we believe and what we do not believe?

 

[Dannager]

Christmas is the day Christ is born. if this is a pagan idea, tell me why you don't call our popes "harlot of babylon"? further more why no Christian celebrity it on a day without pagan influence? Orthodox celebrate it on another day but it's more likely because of calender problems. if you think they're right. why don't you convert? it's a serious theological question. you better think twice before making those remarks.

We put up nativity scenes on Christmas. why? because it's the day Christ is born.

I don't convert because I don't think it matters one bit if we know the exact day Christ was born? Who the heck cares? What matters is Jesus' message, and nowhere in the Bible does it teach that knowing the exact date of Jesus birth is at all crucial to our understanding of what it means to be Christian. Knowing the date of Jesus' birth does nothing to help me lead a better life. Knowing the teachings of Jesus' life do everything to help me lead a better life.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Did you miss the part where you were asked for a scientific source?

And what the heck are you talking about when you mention "cross-breed with a rock"? Rocks aren't even made of biomatter. Evolution doesn't deal with rocks.

Do you have a scientific source to refute me?
evolution DOES deal with the origin of life. all lifes come from rocks. rocks and human are different kinds. you also can't cross breed with an ape, human and ape are different kinds.

 

[Dannager]

Late_Cretaceous if you insist on Christmas is a lie, you shouldn't accusing others of being anti-Catholic. you've already made Catholicism look bad enough. Catholic Church never recognizes Christmas is lie or pagan belief.

I searched the net, there's no indication from any Catholic source that the date of Christmas was set by pagans and isn't the birthday of Jesus Christ

Why in the world would the Catholic church acknowledge that? No one cares if it's the actual date of Jesus' birth. What is important is taking a day out of the year to appreciate his teachings. The Catholic church won't bother to acknowledge something that makes them look bad unless people are clamoring for them to do so. No one is interested in the accuracy of Christmas' date.

 

[Dannager]

wiccan? ccg? are they Catholic? show me any papal (past popes ok) document explicitly teaches Christmas isn't the birthday of Jesus Christ and I'll go to Vatican to spit B16 on the nose, accusing him of being "harlot of babylon" and become schismatic.
looks quite simple, eh?

about your quote in Catholic Encyclopedia. where did it say Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25th? Do Virgin Mary has to put off the delivery a day or two just because it's has something to do with pagans?
I guess every day in a year has something to do with pagan. then Jesus Christ will never be born.

Hey, ThaiDuykhang, if it doesn't say in the Bible when Jesus was born, and it doesn't say in any other contemporary document when Jesus was born, how do you think they figured out when Jesus was born? If you say he was born on a certain day, what evidence do you base that on? Hint: "the church says so" isn't evidence.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

I don't convert because I don't think it matters one bit if we know the exact day Christ was born? Who the heck cares? What matters is Jesus' message, and nowhere in the Bible does it teach that knowing the exact date of Jesus birth is at all crucial to our understanding of what it means to be Christian. Knowing the date of Jesus' birth does nothing to help me lead a better life. Knowing the teachings of Jesus' life do everything to help me lead a better life.

the following paragraph is for Catholics only, Protestants may be offended. I'm sorry for that.

Catholic Church is the church Jesus founded, He told us the gate of Hell won't prevail against it. celebrating something pagan is definitely Satanic influence. and we have papal infallibility. the birthday of Jesus Christ is traditionally taught by popes. this is a theological matter so papal infallibility apply. Where's your faith on papal infallibility and Tradition?

 

[Dannager]

Ad hominem attack. when you resort to this it shows you're losing.

This would be slightly more accurate (but not correct) if that was the only thing Late_Cretaceous had said, but it wasn't. I agree with him. Your debate tactics are dishonest. I'm not saying this because I'm "losing" (since I'm not), I'm saying this because I think you really need to shape up.

I don't care what pagan festival is on December 25th. but it's called Christmas because Jesus Christ is born on that day. this is the origin of Christmas.

Says who? Based on what evidence?

You use evolution to destroy the origin of man now you use evolution to destory the origin of Christmas.

I didn't see evolution used anywhere in Late_Cretaceous' comments on Christmas. How did he use it to destroy the origin of Christmas? Show me. Show all of us. Or stop making horribly dishonest arguments like this that do nothing but decrease our respect for you.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Hey, ThaiDuykhang, if it doesn't say in the Bible when Jesus was born, and it doesn't say in any other contemporary document when Jesus was born, how do you think they figured out when Jesus was born? If you say he was born on a certain day, what evidence do you base that on? Hint: "the church says so" isn't evidence.

one simple sentence "Church says so"
How do you know St. Peter is the first pope? Church said so. Traditional understanding of the scripture said so.
Are they evidence? are they convincing enough for you?

 

[Dannager]

first no one doubts you're Christian.
second your attitude toward swearing shows you don't take God very seriously.

How does it show that? You asked me if I could swear those things on the Bible, and I told you I could. I take God very seriously.

I don't think anyone would deny a specific sentence said by God in the Bible. you know the offence to say something yourself and say God says it. we're not God, nor the Bible writers.

You're right. I accept that Genesis is an allegorical morality tale used by God to teach us a lesson of truth, not a historical fact. I accept this because the world around me teaches that to accept Genesis as a literal depiction of the world 6,000 years ago would be foolish, and would only mean I would be lying to myself.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Why in the world would the Catholic church acknowledge that? No one cares if it's the actual date of Jesus' birth. What is important is taking a day out of the year to appreciate his teachings. The Catholic church won't bother to acknowledge something that makes them look bad unless people are clamoring for them to do so. No one is interested in the accuracy of Christmas' date.

Just taking a day out of the year to appreciate His teachings? OK, now it's your turn to answer why it's set on a pagan festival?(hint: paganism definitely has Satanic influence)

Are you sure "No one" is interested? I'm interested, are you saying I'm not a human?

 

[Dannager]

Do you have a scientific source to refute me?

You were asked for a scientific source to collaborate your claims first. You made a claim without evidence. It cannot be refuted until you've provided evidence to refute. Do so, and we will be happy to refute it.

evolution DOES deal with the origin of life. all lifes come from rocks. rocks and human are different kinds. you also can't cross breed with an ape, human and ape are different kinds.

EVOLUTION DOES NOT DEAL WITH THE ORIGIN OF LIFE. That statement is capitalized, bolded and underlined so that you will remember it. Evolution says nothing about how life began, only about how it has changed. The theory dealing with the origin of life is called abiogenesis and is not evolution. If you continue to claim that evolution deals at all with the origin of life, it will be noted as dishonesty on your part. It's been explained to you that evolution says nothing about the origin of life. You no longer can use ignorance as an excuse in the matter.

 

[Dannager]

the following paragraph is for Catholics only, Protestants may be offended. I'm sorry for that.

Catholic Church is the church Jesus founded, He told us the gate of Hell won't prevail against it. celebrating something pagan is definitely Satanic influence. and we have papal infallibility. the birthday of Jesus Christ is traditionally taught by popes. this is a theological matter so papal infallibility apply. Where's your faith on papal infallibility and Tradition?

The Pope's word is law, in heaven and on earth, until overturned by another Pope's decree. However, I hold, as I do with Genesis, that teachings can be for a moral reason. The church had no solid date to ascribe to the birth of Christ. It used a pagan holiday for two reasons:

1. It made Catholicism more tolerable to the pagan population, as they still were able to celebrate on the traditional day.
2. It allowed the Catholic church to "overwrite" a pagan holiday, effectively removing any chance of it resurfacing as it is now occupied by Christmas.

The actual date of Christ's birth is unimportant and has no affect on salvation. Our acceptance of the teachings of Christ are important.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

How does it show that? You asked me if I could swear those things on the Bible, and I told you I could. I take God very seriously.

You're right. I accept that Genesis is an allegorical morality tale used by God to teach us a lesson of truth, not a historical fact. I accept this because the world around me teaches that to accept Genesis as a literal depiction of the world 6,000 years ago would be foolish, and would only mean I would be lying to myself.

No, you don't take God seriously. Exodus has God himself said He created the world in six days. and no faithful dare to forge God's words.

What's the world around? Only consists of atheists, agnostics, communists, nazist, terrorists, socialists?

 

[Dannager]

one simple sentence "Church says so"
How do you know St. Peter is the first pope? Church said so. Traditional understanding of the scripture said so.
Are they evidence? are they convincing enough for you?

I know that St. Peter was the first Pope because there is historical, corroborative evidence that supports this. The Church may say so, and they may be right, but that is not the only reason I accept it. Again, "the Church says so" is not evidence.

 

[Dannager]

Just taking a day out of the year to appreciate His teachings? OK, now it's your turn to answer why it's set on a pagan festival?(hint: paganism definitely has Satanic influence)

Already dealt with two posts ago, so I won't comment on it here.

Are you sure "No one" is interested? I'm interested, are you saying I'm not a human?

Don't mince words. When I refer to "no one" it was obvious that I meant no significant portion of the Catholic belief base. It is much easier to say "no one" and should not be interpreted as anything but what I just explained unless you are attempting to incriminate your opponent somehow. Do not attempt to incriminate me with ridiculous statements like "are you saying I'm not a human?"