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Why do some Christian's dismiss Creationism?

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Late_Cretaceous

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If the days of the week come "directly from God", then why are they named after pagan gods/

Sunday was named after the Sun god.
Monday was named after the moon goddess.
Tuesday was named after the god Tyr.
Wednesday was named after the god Odin.
Thursday was named after the god Thor.
Friday was named after the goddess Frigga.
Saturday was named after the god Saturn.


Seems kinda odd don't it?
 
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The Lady Kate

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Late_Cretaceous said:
If the days of the week come "directly from God", then why are they named after pagan gods/

Sunday was named after the Sun god.
Monday was named after the moon goddess.
Tuesday was named after the god Tyr.
Wednesday was named after the god Odin.
Thursday was named after the god Thor.
Friday was named after the goddess Frigga.
Saturday was named after the god Saturn.


Seems kinda odd don't it?

Aww... you beat me to it! Most of those days are named after Norse gods... how any True Christian could stand for such blasphemy is beyond me... ;)
 
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lismore

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The Lady Kate said:
I said no such thing... I said that Genesis is, at least partially, based on a Babylonian myth. If you find that offensive, I suggest you get over your pride and look at the facts.



.

Lemme guess your next wild claim? The Jesus myth is based on the persian mithras cult^_^

Yadda yadda yadda, heard all this rubbish before^_^ .
 
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Dannager

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ThaiDuykhang said:
So you believe everyone back then has a misunderstanding of the origin of life? now answer me, who caused the misunderstanding: God or Satan and why? I remember someone said before the bible there were evolutionist. so it is through the reading of Bible, people become Creationist. that evolutionist is a pagan and has no access to Bible thus he can discover the truth. answer me, who caused the misunderstanding?
Yup, everyone back then thought that the earth was created in six days. Of course, no one back then cared a whit for accurate history. They cared for story and myth. If you want to attribute the misunderstanding to someone, though, probably best to attribute it to God.
A parable for you:
a newly-graduated man applies for job. he forged his resume to say he's an experienced worker. he gets the job. later his forgery is discovered, he said I'm the best worker you can get, so I forged the resume to make you easier to accept me.
You're downgrading God to this man.
No, you're downgrading God to that man. I'm not "downgrading" God to anything. I'm saying that, from observed evidence, this is what must have happened. Don't put words into my mouth.
Peter hadn't experienced the flood. Peter lived 2000 years after the flood. He got the information of his father, grandpa etc up to Noah. Noah told him the whole planet flooded, Noah doesn't know where Peter was going to live after 2000 years.
This is irrelevant. The point is, the entire world as they knew it flooded.
flood is one of the most important subjects in the debate of YEC/TE.
It's only important from to the debate from the YEC perspective. If you feel that it's important, though, it should be in its own thread, not cluttering up a thread on a different topic entirely.
 
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Dannager

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lismore said:
As Jesus said believe in the miracles you have seen.
Did you see the earth's creation? Because I didn't see it. God says to believe in the miracles you've seen. That's fine, but I have yet to see any miracles.
God is able to form the earth in six days and he is able to speak to you and tell you for himself.
How? If you're saying that he speaks to me through the Bible, that's fine, but it doesn't make him any more extraordinary than anyone else who can write a book that speaks to me.
You're right. We dont need anymore in the church.

:)
Wow, that was definitely the level of sensitivity and compassion I expect from a fellow Christian.
 
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Dannager

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lismore said:
Are you actually saying the Son of God would use decepetion to gain followers?
Not deception. Simply explaining away something completely irrelevant to his teachings in a manner they would understand. It would have done him no good at all to teach how the earth actually came to be. That wasn't part of his teachings on how to lead a good life.
 
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Dannager

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lismore said:
Lemme guess your next wild claim? The Jesus myth is based on the persian mithras cult^_^

Yadda yadda yadda, heard all this rubbish before^_^ .
Don't you dare dismiss anyone's argument like that, lismore. You are so woefully lacking in arguments of your own you need everything you can get.
 
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lismore

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Dannager said:
Don't you dare dismiss anyone's argument like that, lismore. You are so woefully lacking in arguments of your own you need everything you can get.

The argument that the bible was based on babylonian myths? Where is your proof for this? Or are you just going to throw hostility all night?

My argument is that the Bible is not based on a myth and here is my argument:

2 Timothy 3:16 NIV
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

Jesus referred to the Old testament scriptures by name 23 times in the gospels- he also quoted from them upwards of 100 times.

Perhaps he didnt know what you know huh?

Or Peter who talked about the flood as judgement for the whole of mankind, the next to come by fire?

Or Paul who said to avoid myths and fables instead of concentrating on the word of God? Is your theory not the fable when compared to God's word?


You are free to believe whatever you want- feel free. But when you start saying your opinions are 'facts', you will have problems with me.

:)
 
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lismore

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Dannager said:
Did you see the earth's creation? Because I didn't see it. God says to believe in the miracles you've seen. That's fine, but I have yet to see any miracles.

Friend,

Jesus said miracles would follow those who believe. Mark 16.

I cant believe for you, or experience God's awesome power in you and through you for you. You will have to do this yourself.

:)
 
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lismore

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Dannager said:
This is irrelevant. The point is, the entire world as they knew it flooded.

.

As Jesus did not correct their ignorance of your knowledge, we can assume it was the world as God knew it that was flooded too.

Let me guess, the next judgement will just be partial too?

:)
 
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The Lady Kate

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lismore said:
As Jesus did not correct their ignorance of your knowledge, we can assume it was the world as God knew it that was flooded too.

Let me guess, the next judgement will just be partial too?

:)

Jesus healed the sick by laying his hands on them... As Jesus did not correct their ignorance of our knowledge of antibiotics, we can assume it was as God knew it too, and that medicine is some sort of deception.

Let me guess... you're going to say, "prove it!"
 
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gluadys

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ThaiDuykhang said:
Catholics don't think John Kerry or Paul Martin will make it to heaven if unrepentant.
Any Catholic disagree with me?

They have the correct belief of Jesus is God and the wrong belief of abortion/homosexuality etc are OK.

Do you think you know what John Kerry or Paul Martin's personal beliefs are?

In Canada, the government had to comply with the rulings of the Supreme Court on abortion and same-sex marriage. It wouldn't matter what Martin himself believed. The former laws were judged unconstitutional and the government had to create constitutional legislation.

That doesn't tell us anything about his own beliefs at all.


No one who is unrepentant enters heaven. But repentance is not a matter of holding the correct mix of beliefs.
 
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gluadys

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ThaiDuykhang said:
the following paragraph is for Catholics only, Protestants may be offended. I'm sorry for that.

Catholic Church is the church Jesus founded, He told us the gate of Hell won't prevail against it. celebrating something pagan is definitely Satanic influence. and we have papal infallibility. the birthday of Jesus Christ is traditionally taught by popes. this is a theological matter so papal infallibility apply. Where's your faith on papal infallibility and Tradition?

AS a Catholic you should know that papal infallibility only applies to statements made ex cathedra. Please tell us in which papal document, proclaimed ex cathedra, the Catholic church named December 25 as the birth date of Christ.

That the Catholic church chose to celebrate the nativity on December 25 does not mean the date has papal infallibility behind it.
 
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shernren

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My argument is that the Bible is not based on a myth and here is my argument:

2 Timothy 3:16 NIV
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

Shabby argument. Let's go over 2 Timothy 3:16 again - and throw v.17 into the mix for kicks.

All Scripture is:

God-breathed
useful for teaching
useful for rebuking
useful for correcting
useful for training in righteousness.
thoroughly equipping the man of God for every good work.

So, the "argument" goes, how can a myth be all these things? I'm sorry to burst the bubble but they can be.

1. A myth can be God-breathed.

When Jesus told the parable of the Sower, He explicitly told His disciples that it was a parable, i.e. a fabricated story intended to make a point. Now, Jesus is God, and anything He says certainly qualifies to be called "God-breathed", which include all His parables. And yet while we worry about the archeological veracity of the Old Testament, we don't worry that when we go to Heaven Jesus will say "Look - there was no Good Samaritan! I made him up Myself!" ... why? Because a myth is not meant to be historical. And yet that ahistoricality doesn't detract anything from it being God-breathed.

2. A myth can be useful for teaching.

Anybody who's told their children fairy tales before tucking them into bed knows this.

3. A myth can be useful for rebuking.

The LORD sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, "There were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him. "Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him." David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, "As surely as the LORD lives, the man who did this deserves to die! He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity." Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man!" (2 Samuel 12:1-7 NIV)

4. A myth can be useful for correcting.

Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is--that she is a sinner." Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."
"Tell me, teacher," he said. "Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?" Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled."
"You have judged correctly," Jesus said.
(Luke 7:36-43 NIV)


5. A myth can be useful for training in righteousness.

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
(Luke 10:25-37 NIV)


6. A myth can thoroughly equip the man of God for good work.

"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. "At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!' "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.' " 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.' "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. "Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!' "But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.' "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
(Matthew 25:1-13 NIV)


So, let's put it all together. Emending 2 Timothy 3:16,17 a bit,

Genesis 1, a myth, is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

See? That wasn't so insurmountable an argument after all.
 
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The Lady Kate

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shernren said:
Shabby argument. Let's go over 2 Timothy 3:16 again - and throw v.17 into the mix for kicks.

All Scripture is:

God-breathed
useful for teaching
useful for rebuking
useful for correcting
useful for training in righteousness.
thoroughly equipping the man of God for every good work.

So, the "argument" goes, how can a myth be all these things? I'm sorry to burst the bubble but they can be.

1. A myth can be God-breathed.

When Jesus told the parable of the Sower, He explicitly told His disciples that it was a parable, i.e. a fabricated story intended to make a point. Now, Jesus is God, and anything He says certainly qualifies to be called "God-breathed", which include all His parables. And yet while we worry about the archeological veracity of the Old Testament, we don't worry that when we go to Heaven Jesus will say "Look - there was no Good Samaritan! I made him up Myself!" ... why? Because a myth is not meant to be historical. And yet that ahistoricality doesn't detract anything from it being God-breathed.

2. A myth can be useful for teaching.

Anybody who's told their children fairy tales before tucking them into bed knows this.

3. A myth can be useful for rebuking.

The LORD sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, "There were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him. "Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him." David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, "As surely as the LORD lives, the man who did this deserves to die! He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity." Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man!" (2 Samuel 12:1-7 NIV)

4. A myth can be useful for correcting.

Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is--that she is a sinner." Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."
"Tell me, teacher," he said. "Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?" Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled."
"You have judged correctly," Jesus said.
(Luke 7:36-43 NIV)


5. A myth can be useful for training in righteousness.

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
(Luke 10:25-37 NIV)

6. A myth can thoroughly equip the man of God for good work.

"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. "At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!' "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.' " 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.' "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. "Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!' "But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.' "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
(Matthew 25:1-13 NIV)

So, let's put it all together. Emending 2 Timothy 3:16,17 a bit,

Genesis 1, a myth, is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

See? That wasn't so insurmountable an argument after all.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to shernren again."

:amen: :clap:
 
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ThaiDuykhang

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The Lady Kate said:
Jesus healed the sick by laying his hands on them... As Jesus did not correct their ignorance of our knowledge of antibiotics, we can assume it was as God knew it too, and that medicine is some sort of deception.

Let me guess... you're going to say, "prove it!"

Sorry, what do you mean here? Jesus indeed healed the sick by laying His hands on them. Do you think He gave the sick some medicine and then told others He healed them by laying hands? what's the medicine knowledge related to this miracle? simple, the crowd believe Jesus can heal the sick without using medicine. anything wrong in it?
 
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ThaiDuykhang

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gluadys said:
Do you think you know what John Kerry or Paul Martin's personal beliefs are?

In Canada, the government had to comply with the rulings of the Supreme Court on abortion and same-sex marriage. It wouldn't matter what Martin himself believed. The former laws were judged unconstitutional and the government had to create constitutional legislation.

That doesn't tell us anything about his own beliefs at all.

JK and PM all push for anti-Catholic (and anti-Christian too) agendas? Do I need to explain further?

gluadys said:
No one who is unrepentant enters heaven. But repentance is not a matter of holding the correct mix of beliefs.
Sometime one repents because you did something wrong due to addiction or impulse. Sometimes one repents because he realizes he holds wrong believes. Do you think pushing abortion and homosexual agendas are addictive or it's a really long impulse?
 
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