Why do some Christian's dismiss Creationism?

[ThaiDuykhang]

No, he said it was wrong... after the fact.

He said the act was already wrong. so the law is in effect before the act.
He didn't say "If thou murdereth again, willst thou be cursed from earth."

 

[shernren]

Good heavens. 1 Kings 1 is not about Bathsheba.

 

[gluadys]

I guess you missed the context or the Bible. David never slept with a married woman except that woman is his own wife.

So how come Bathsheba became pregnant so that David had to recall Uriah from the army to make it look like it was his child? He most certainly did sleep with Bathsheba while she was Uriah's wife.

 

[Numenor]

I guess you missed the context or the Bible. David never slept with a married woman except that woman is his own wife.

Oh dear, pride most certainly comes before a fall.

I think you not only missed some context but an entire few chapters! For further reading see 2 Samuel 12 where the prophet Nathan rebukes David and also Psalm 51 which David writes in repentance, one of the best known penitential psalms.

2 Samuel 11 (NIV)
David and Bathsheba
[sup]1[/sup] In the spring, at the time when kings go off to war, David sent Joab out with the king's men and the whole Israelite army. They destroyed the Ammonites and besieged Rabbah. But David remained in Jerusalem.
[sup]2[/sup]One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, [sup]3[/sup] and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, "Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?" [sup]4[/sup] Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then she went back home. [sup]5[/sup]The woman conceived and sent word to David, saying, "I am pregnant."
[sup]6[/sup] So David sent this word to Joab: "Send me Uriah the Hittite." And Joab sent him to David. [sup]7[/sup]When Uriah came to him, David asked him how Joab was, how the soldiers were and how the war was going. [sup]8[/sup]Then David said to Uriah, "Go down to your house and wash your feet." So Uriah left the palace, and a gift from the king was sent after him. [sup]9[/sup]But Uriah slept at the entrance to the palace with all his master's servants and did not go down to his house.
[sup]10[/sup]When David was told, "Uriah did not go home," he asked him, "Haven't you just come from a distance? Why didn't you go home?"
[sup]11[/sup]Uriah said to David, "The ark and Israel and Judah are staying in tents, and my master Joab and my lord's men are camped in the open fields. How could I go to my house to eat and drink and lie with my wife? As surely as you live, I will not do such a thing!"
[sup]12[/sup]Then David said to him, "Stay here one more day, and tomorrow I will send you back." So Uriah remained in Jerusalem that day and the next. [sup]13[/sup]At David's invitation, he ate and drank with him, and David made him drunk. But in the evening Uriah went out to sleep on his mat among his master's servants; he did not go home.
[sup]14[/sup]In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. [sup]15[/sup]In it he wrote, "Put Uriah in the front line where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."
[sup]16[/sup]So while Joab had the city under siege, he put Uriah at a place where he knew the strongest defenders were.[sup]17[/sup]When the men of the city came out and fought against Joab, some of the men in David's army fell; moreover, Uriah the Hittite died.
[sup]18[/sup]Joab sent David a full account of the battle. [sup]19[/sup]He instructed the messenger: "When you have finished giving the king this account of the battle, [sup]20[/sup]the king's anger may flare up, and he may ask you, 'Why did you get so close to the city to fight? Didn't you know they would shoot arrows from the wall? [sup]21[/sup]Who killed Abimelech son of Jerub-Besheth? Didn't a woman throw an upper millstone on him from the wall, so that he died in Thebez? Why did you get so close to the wall?' If he asks you this, then say to him, 'Also, your servant Uriah the Hittite is dead.' "
[sup]22[/sup]The messenger set out, and when he arrived he told David everything Joab had sent him to say. [sup]23[/sup]The messenger said to David, "The men overpowered us and came out against us in the open, but we drove them back to the entrance to the city gate. [sup]24[/sup]Then the archers shot arrows at your servants from the wall, and some of the king's men died. Moreover, your servant Uriah the Hittite is dead."
[sup]25[/sup]David told the messenger, "Say this to Joab: 'Don't let this upset you; the sword devours one as well as another. Press the attack against the city and destroy it.' Say this to encourage Joab."
[sup]26[/sup]When Uriah's wife heard that her husband was dead, she mourned for him. [sup]27[/sup]After the time of mourning was over, David had her brought to his house, and she became his wife and bore him a son. But the thing David had done displeased the LORD.

 

[shernren]

This is where I take a moment and thank God for the great and yet unappreciated theological education I received as a child:

Sunday School.

Surprising the things one can get wrong without this basic foundation in faith. Ah well. Nobody can avoid mistakes forever.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

You wrote:

Prove to me David is a murderer.Polygamy was allowed back then, so he just married more than one wife instead of being an adulterer.​

That is a claim that David neither murdered nor committed adultery, in and indirect response I referred to 2 Samual 11.
Your response to this appears to be an attempt to pretend you never made your original claim by shifting the discussion.

Adultery is already forbidden when David did it.

Please note 2 Sam 11:14 In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. 15 In it he wrote, "Put Uriah in the front line where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."

That qualifies as murder.

 

[Numenor]

Please note 2 Sam 11:14 In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. 15 In it he wrote, "Put Uriah in the front line where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."

That qualifies as murder.

Just as v4 qualifies as adultery.

 

[serephiale]

1. No faithful can ever discover evolution as Creationism is a required belief before the appearence of evolution. It has to be discovered by some pagan/agnostic/atheist. When God hid this "truth" from the faithful?

2. afterlife consequences for following evolution and wrong is far more severe than following Creationism and wrong. In fact I don't think following Creationism and wrong has any consequences.

3. Jesus can detect the slightest theology error in apostles and fix it, why He didn't correct them if evolution is right?

4. Bible is God's words. God doesn't wish to create misunderstanding. then why without any non-theological interference it's always interpreted in favor of Creationism?

5. God wish the relationship with man as close as possible. on the other hand God is omnipotent. The bond between God and human is stronger when God created human directly. then Why He choose the method which forms a weaker bond?

6. For Catholics only. Apostolic Tradition always teaches Creationism is truth and evolution is unacceptable(see Baltimore Catechism and Roman Catechism etc). How can one accept evolution against tradition?

7. For Catholics only. All papal documents that are ambiguous in words on this issue have never explicitly states "A Catholic can accept evolution without damaging faith"

8. symbolic interpretation of Genesis paved way for symbolic interpretation of the whole Bible. for example: Adam died at 930 years old. Moses died at 120. Why Moses lives only 1/7.75 the years of Adam. A Catholic evolutionist from another forum said scripture regarding Moses's life are also symbolic.

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newly added
9. Why a week lasts 7 days?
10. God would have been stupid, if he couldn't get everything right the first time
11. It's not the character of God to use misfits and death.

1. God endowed the human race with the most advanced brain on the planet. I daresay it's not too far of a stretch to believe that perhaps he wants us to use it and leaves us to find our own answers about some things.
2.One can accept evolution and firmly believe in Christ. Some of the most devout Christians I know are Theistic Evolutionists.
3.Why would he mention evolution? It is a scientific concept, not a theological one.
4.Because people who don't know better will generally take something literally, much like young children have difficulty understanding figures of speech until they are taught the concept.
5.The bond between man and God is not in the flesh, but in the spirit. How God created man's flesh--evolution, creationism, or some other way--seems irrelevant in terms of the strength of our bond.
6.Not a Catholic
7.Not a Catholic
8.The only response I can come up with is...So?
9.A week is divided into seven days in our culture because the Gregorian calender was made with Christianity in mind, and Genesis seems to define a week as seven days.
10.He didn't get everything right the first time. Remember the Flood?
11.It's in his character to order the Israelites to slaughter whole races of people, including the women and children, but it's not in his character to use death and misfits....Shrug, whatever floats your boat.

 

[gluadys]

1. God endowed the human race with the most advanced brain on the planet. I daresay it's not too far of a stretch to believe that perhaps he wants us to use it and leaves us to find our own answers about some things.
2.One can accept evolution and firmly believe in Christ. Some of the most devout Christians I know are Theistic Evolutionists.
3.Why would he mention evolution? It is a scientific concept, not a theological one.
4.Because people who don't know better will generally take something literally, much like young children have difficulty understanding figures of speech until they are taught the concept.
5.The bond between man and God is not in the flesh, but in the spirit. How God created man's flesh--evolution, creationism, or some other way--seems irrelevant in terms of the strength of our bond.
6.Not a Catholic
7.Not a Catholic
8.The only response I can come up with is...So?
9.A week is divided into seven days in our culture because the Gregorian calender was made with Christianity in mind, and Genesis seems to define a week as seven days.
10.He didn't get everything right the first time. Remember the Flood?
11.It's in his character to order the Israelites to slaughter whole races of people, including the women and children, but it's not in his character to use death and misfits....Shrug, whatever floats your boat.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to serephiale again.

You are on a roll.

 

[shernren]

That qualifies as murder.

Technically isn't it more "conspiracy to murder" than murder per se? Just nit-picking - I agree with the essence of what you are saying.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

So how come Bathsheba became pregnant so that David had to recall Uriah from the army to make it look like it was his child? He most certainly did sleep with Bathsheba while she was Uriah's wife.

1st, adultery is wrong at David's time.
2nd. why bring it out? You're trying to prove everything that is wrong today is wrong from beginning. David's case can't support your or my claim. I agree adultery is wrong from beginning.

We're discussing marrying one's brother/sister. not adultery.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

If people can't agree all morals are given by God and without God there's no moral, there's no point to debate theology in Christian Only forum.
such debate belongs to Christian vs Atheist forum.

 

[Numenor]

1st, adultery is wrong at David's time.
2nd. why bring it out? You're trying to prove everything that is wrong today is wrong from beginning. David's case can't support your or my claim. I agree adultery is wrong from beginning.

We're discussing marrying one's brother/sister. not adultery.

You know you'd gain a lot of respect round here if you just admitted you were wrong about David and bathsheba instead of trying to handwave it away and pretending it didn't happen.

 

[shernren]

If I recall, Thai, you were the one who said that murder wouldn't be wrong if God had not said that it was wrong. That is simply bad theology and a complete misunderstanding of the relationship between morals and the character and express will of God.

 

[The Lady Kate]

If people can't agree all morals are given by God and without God there's no moral, there's no point to debate theology in Christian Only forum.

Non-sequitor. Atheists have morals too, as do people who never heard of God.

And since God is eternal and unchanging, one would think that His instructions to us would be, as well. But since the "rules" concerning polygamy and incest have changed, then obviously something else is happening here.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Technically isn't it more "conspiracy to murder" than murder per se? Just nit-picking - I agree with the essence of what you are saying.

Actually I thought of putting that down, but given that looking at other women in order to lust after them is the moral equivalent to adultery I rather think that giving the order to cause somebody's death with the reasonable expectation that it will occur is morally murder.

 

[shernren]

Morally yes but I suppose that legally "conspiracy to murder" would have been the case since David did not directly cause Uriah's death but did it through Joab and the hands of the enemy combatants. Oh well. Just a little fun sidetracking