Why do some 'Christians' believe that Hell is not eternal?

[Albion]

- which isn't true ofcourse , the 2nd paragraph.

Simply because "one , in front of you , hating you , never wanting to love you back" ,
never - ever - not never -
torpedoes the silly idea of "universal salvation".

I am not sure what you are saying there but, yes, there are about a half-dozen verses that seem to substantiate the idea of universal salvation.

That doesnt mean that I personally am persuaded by these few verses, or that there are not many more verses that seem to say the opposite, but it is not true that there is nothing at all in scripture for a Universalist to point to--and I am not talking about some generalities like God is love, etc.

 

[JackRT]

Because someone can't call themselves Christian if they don't believe that He'll is forever.

See my post #13. I have been a Christian for over 70 years and I am not at all sure that hell even exists let alone being forever.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

"Hell" is never mentioned in the Bible. Never. Ever. The terms "Sheole", "Ghenna' and "Hades" are used but they do not carry the freight of hell. Hell is actually a pagan Anglo-Saxon term that was chosen by translators it fit their understandings of the three terms above. This was aided an abetted by the lurid medieval poetry of the Italian poet Dante in his "Inferno". Most Christians would do well to rethink their belief in Hell.

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[eleos1954]

Did you just make these up to support your false doctrine? Please show me any of Jesus' unquestioned parables which are untrue, #2, or fictitious, #3? Everything that Jesus used for an example is something which could and often did happen, e.g. a widow losing and finding a coin, a shepherd losing and finding a sheep, a wayward son who squandered his inheritance, tenants who rebel against their landlord, guests not prepared for a wedding etc.

Merriam-Webster is a secular dictionary therefore not a reliable source for interpreting the Bible. While the story of Lazarus and the rich man follows other parables that does not make it a parable. Jesus did not introduce the story as a parable and Jesus never explained it to His disciples.
.....Parables use something known to reveal a truth about something unknown. For example we often use parables, some people will say that turtle meat tastes like chicken. That is a parable. How can Jesus illustrate an unknown or misunderstood truth about the kingdom of heaven by using false stories which His audience know absolutely nothing about?
.....Your objection about the sheep is ridiculous. Jesus clearly explained just as the shepherd rejoiced when he found the one lost sheep, there will be rejoicing in heaven when one lost sinner is found. That is the similarity, not four legs!

Can a person not in heaven have conversations with persons who are? Both Paul and John did. 2 Cor 12 and Rev. If God wants the rich man in hell to be able to speak to Abraham in heaven don't you think He can make that happen?
.....In the OT there are at least 2 stories, God speaking, where men dead mean in sheol speak and move. Isaiah 14:4, Isaiah 14:9-10 Ezekiel 32:20-21, Ezekiel 32:31-32

If a man was being tormented in flames would you expect him to be rational? So his cry for a drop of water is something that a man in agony might say.

First Lazarus and the rich man are not people who died with faith in Christ. They were both Jews under the old covenant. But the angels did gather Lazarus to Abraham's bosom. Luke 16;22
.....Was Jesus literally in the father's bosom John 1:18? "Abraham's bosom" is a position not a place. In that day they did not sit at tables as we do, they reclined on their left elbow, at a low table, with their feet stretched out away from the table. That is how the woman was able to wash Jesus' feet with her tears and dry them with her hair. Women did not crawl around under the table of strange men.
..... "In the bosom" is the position to the right, actually in front, of the host at a banquet. Jews believed that they would be seated in Abraham's bosom, at the heavenly banquet when they died.

First see the scripture I linked to above, about what happens after death. Psalm 6 is a prayer of David, he is not speaking thus saith the Lord, writing what God gave him to write. David is praying stating what he can understand from his own senses.
.....All of the early church fathers who quoted or referred to the story of Lazarus and the rich man, were native Greek speakers and considered it factual.

• Irenaeus [120-202 AD] Against Heresies Book II Chapter XXXIV.-Souls Can Be Recognised in the Separate State, and are Immortal Although They Once Had a Beginning. [was a student of Polycarp, who was a student of John.]
1. The Lord has taught with very great fulness, that souls not only continue to exist, not by passing from body to body, but that they preserve the same form [in their separate state] as the body had to which they were adapted, and that they remember the deeds which they did in this state of existence, and from which they have now ceased,-in that narrative which is recorded respecting the rich man and that Lazarus who found repose in the bosom of Abraham. In this account He states that Dives [=Latin for rich] knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him-[Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table. [He tells us] also of the answer given by Abraham, who was acquainted not only with what respected himself, but Dives also, and who enjoined those who did not wish to come into that place of torment to believe Moses and the prophets, and to receive the preaching of Him who was to rise again from the dead. By these things, then, it is plainly declared that souls continue to exist that they do not pass from body to body, that they possess the form of a man, so that they may be recognised, and retain the memory of things in this world; moreover, that the gift of prophecy was possessed by Abraham, and that each class of souls] receives a habitation such as it has deserved, even before the judgment.
Link: ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus | Christian Classics Ethereal Library
• Clement of Alexandria [A.D. 153-193-217] The Instructor [Paedagogus] Book 1 Chaper 11
On the Resurrection.“There was a certain man,” said the Lord, narrating, “very rich, who was clothed in purple and scarlet, enjoying himself splendidly every day.” This was the day. “And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at the rich man’s gate, full of sores, desiring to be filled with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table.” This is the grass. Well, the rich man was punished in Hades, being made partaker of the fire; while the other flourished again in the Father’s bosom.
• Tertullian A Treatise On The Soul [A.D. 145-220.] Part First
In hell the soul of a certain man is in torment, punished in flames, suffering excruciating thirst, and imploring from the finger of a happier soul, for his tongue, the solace of a drop of water. Do you suppose that this end of the blessed poor man and the miserable rich man is only imaginary? Then why the name of Lazarus in this narrative, if the circumstance is not in (the category of) a real occurrence? But even if it is to be regarded as imaginary, it will still be a testimony to truth and reality. For unless the soul possessed corporeality, the image of a soul could not possibly contain a finger of a bodily substance; nor would the Scripture feign a statement about the limbs of a body, if these had no existence.
• The Epistles Of Cyprian (A.D. 200-258) Epistle 54 To Cornelius, Concerning Fortunatus And Felicissimus, Or Against The Heretics
A good man out of the good treasure bringeth forth good things; and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.” Whence also that rich sinner who implores help from Lazarus, then laid in Abraham’s bosom, and established in a place of comfort, while he, writhing in torments, is consumed by the heats of burning flame, suffers most punishment of all parts of his body in his mouth and his tongue, because doubtless in his mouth and his tongue he had most sinned.
• Methodius Fragments On The History Of Jonah (A.D. 260-312)
But souls, being rational bodies, are arranged by the Maker and Father of all things into members which are visible to reason, having received this impression. Whence, also, in Hades, as in the case of Lazarus and the rich man, they are spoken of as having a tongue, and a finger, and the other members; not as though they had with them another invisible body, but that the souls themselves, naturally, when entirely stripped of their covering, are such according to their essence.​

I think you misunderstand .... EVERYTHING said by Jesus is truth ... a parable (when used by Jesus) is a fictional story that contains an important truth that he wanted to get across. It is a method he used to express certain teachings. Jesus himself defines them as parables and not literal happenings.

I was not saying the parables were "untrue" just meant they are not literal.

couple of samples

Mark 4:13
Luke 8:11

 

[Danoded]

See my post #13. I have been a Christian for over 70 years and I am not at all sure that hell even exists let alone being forever.

Do you believe demons exist? Wondering because I believe I saw another one of your comments which said such.

 

[JackRT]

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

With regard to John of Patmos I find my self with that large body of early Christians that rejected Revelation as canonical.

 

[JackRT]

Do you believe demons exist? Wondering because I believe I saw another one of your comments which said such.

I did not say such --- I said the opposite.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

It doesn't make sense to me at all, what do they think Hell* is for in that case?

There are Christians who truly don't believe that God is Holy, or that his judgments are righteous or true. That is where that thought process comes from. When you constantly immerse yourself in the Word of God, you understand how all his ways are good. Even an eternal punishment for the unrighteous. Because it is a righteous judgment for sin.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

With regard to John of Patmos I find my self with that large body of early Christians that rejected Revelation as canonical.

Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mark 9:43-48


43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

[Danoded]

I did not say such --- I said the opposite.

Ok I have mistaken you for another user, apologies.

How can you think that Hell does not exist, where do you think the evil doers in this world end up then?

 

[Hieronymus]

Why do some 'Christians' believe that He'll is not eternal?
'Christians'? or Christians?
He'll or hell?
Anyway, they studied the subject.
Perhaps after struggling with the idea that God might torture their loved ones for ever and ever and ever with no purpose other than dampening God's unquenchable anger.

Is being destroyed not also eternal suffering? When do you believe they are destroyed?

It will be like before you were born.
No life. It's the 2nd death.
John 3:16.

But eternal conscious torment is the traditional teaching, that's true.
But has it always been the traditional teaching?
No.
But it was handy to keep people submitted to organised religion.

I'm late in this topic, so i guess others have suggested to learn about Conditional Immortality by visiting Rethinking Hell site.
They have a Fakebook page too.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Because they are sitting in compromised lukewarm churches ran by hirelings.

Bingo

 

[Danoded]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. What is God's attitude when he intentionally tortures his enemies for infinity times infinity? Is that love or hate? I suppose this question could get philosophically complex in terms of the function or purpose of this judgment but the question of God's attitude is the simplest one there is. We can start with the assumption that he is at least a bit cross with them...

For the sake of argument let's say one of my kids strangled a baby to death because it wouldn't stop crying. Then me being a loving father decided to tie my child to the wall in the basement and then slowly performed Chinese cutting torture on them to keep them awake and alive as long as possible. Would you call that love? That is gentle compared to God's response towards the exact same sin!

There is only one difference: I would go to death row because I am mortal. God holds absolute power

That's a very demonic thing to say, God Forbid such ever occurs. In regards to your first paragraph, God is the ultimate judge of good and evil. If He decrees that someone is worthy of Hell than the person surely is without a shadow of doubt.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

 

[Danoded]

Why do some 'Christians' believe that He'll is not eternal?
'Christians'? or Christians?
He'll or hell?
Anyway, they studied the subject.
Perhaps after struggling with the idea that God might torture their loved ones for ever and ever and ever with no purpose other than dampening God's unquenchable anger.

It will be like before you were born.
No life. It's the 2nd death.
John 3:16.

But eternal conscious torment is the traditional teaching, that's true.
But has it always been the traditional teaching?
No.
But it was handy to keep people submitted to organised religion.

I'm late in this topic, so i guess others have suggested to learn about Conditional Immortality by visiting Rethinking Hell site.
They have a Fakebook page too.

This teaching is biblical, as Jesus repeatedly states that there will be weeping and gnashing of the teeth in the outer darkness, doesn't sound to me like they just "expire".

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

 

[Hieronymus]

That's a very demonic thing to say, God Forbid such ever occurs.

Is it then not demonic to say that the Father would torture his creatures forever and ever because they failed to see the Light in their puny 75 years on earth?

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Why do some 'Christians' believe that He'll is not eternal?
'Christians'? or Christians?
He'll or hell?
Anyway, they studied the subject.
Perhaps after struggling with the idea that God might torture their loved ones for ever and ever and ever with no purpose other than damping God's unquenchable anger.

It will be like before you were born.
No life. It's the 2nd death.
John 3:16.

But eternal conscious torment is the traditional teaching, that's true.
But has it always been the traditional teaching?
No.
But it was handy to keep people submitted to organised religion.

I'm late in this topic, so i guess others have suggested to learn about Conditional Immortality by visiting Rethinking Hell site.
They have a Fakebook page too.

Actually, that is a fallacy assuming it will be as if you were never born. It would be better if that were the case, do the crime, avoid the time. However, as scripture shows this is not the case, and the punishment would be eternal and enduring.
Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

 

[Danoded]

Is it then not demonic to say that the Father would torture his creatures forever and ever because they failed to see the Light in their puny 75 years on earth?

Those in Hell suffering right now put themselves there by rejecting God and following the doctrine of satan. It is not demonic, God is he judge over everything int the universe, He decides what is good and wrong, and he exacts judgement accordingly, sentencing those who sinned tremendously and committed atrocities on their time on Earth to Hell.

 

[JackRT]

Ok I have mistaken you for another user, apologies.

How can you think that Hell does not exist, where do you think the evil doers in this world end up then?

I believe in God's justice but I believe even more strongly in God's compassion and forgiveness.