Why do some Christians act so hostile toward questions?

[Galatea]

But it says also "between your offspring and hers". Satan never had any offspring. It doesn't say anything about "the son" it says basically that the offspring of Eve (that is, many many many people) will basically not let the serpent trouble them anymore.





Revelation was a long time after, and Ezekiel is a proverb referring to the King of Tyre.

All that Satan was in the Old Testament was a prosecutor in Job, that's it. The other parts commonly cited as references to Satan rebelling are proverbs in relation to arrogant kings, in Revelation was written hundreds of years after all of it and was heavily symbolic. Those in the Old Testament had no concept of a devil.

How the Serpent Became Satan - Biblical Archaeology Society

The tool of Satan is cursed, the serpent. That is the reason why it must crawl on its stomach now.

Any time there is an evil spirit in the Old Testament, it is either Satan or a demon. Some mention of the devil or devils in the Old Testament: Lev 17:7, Deu 32:17, II Chron 11:15, Psalm 106:37.
Mention of Satan in the Old Testament: I Chron 21:1, Job, Psalm 109:6, Zec 3:1-2

 

[~Anastasia~]

But it says also "between your offspring and hers". Satan never had any offspring. It doesn't say anything about "the son" it says basically that the offspring of Eve (that is, many many many people) will basically not let the serpent trouble them anymore.





Revelation was a long time after, and Ezekiel is a proverb referring to the King of Tyre.

All that Satan was in the Old Testament was a prosecutor in Job, that's it. The other parts commonly cited as references to Satan rebelling are proverbs in relation to arrogant kings, in Revelation was written hundreds of years after all of it and was heavily symbolic. Those in the Old Testament had no concept of a devil.

How the Serpent Became Satan - Biblical Archaeology Society

Translations generally say ...

I will put enmity between your offspring and the woman's offspring

He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel.

Interesting, because it does not say her offspring will bruise your offspring's head .... it makes it specifically between the serpent and the son of the woman.

Just as Eve is not the mother of Christ, the passage can still refer to Him while speaking to Eve, because Christ became Incarnate through the lineage of humankind.

Even so, the demons who rebelled and follow Satan don't have to be his biologically produced offspring to be his "children" in a sense.

If one part can be metaphorical, the other part should be equally plausible.

But I'm not really wanting to argue. Take it as your conscience dictates, if you must.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Lets assume its not an actual serpent but an entity that is cunning,witty, and just flat our smarter than you. Then you would for sure fall for it.

No I wouldn't. If I'm naked with my wife in a garden and a talking sna... entity told me something that contradicted what the god I believe in says, I'm going to go back to the god I believe in to get clarification.

 

[OnePeter315]

Why do you care if it brings me hope and joy, so I can endure losing him while I'm here on earth? If it's a fantasy, then I lose nothing. I die and that's it. But there's a real chance that it could be true.

I've been offline for a couple days so I'm just now catching up on the thread.

@Saucy this is SO true! I've found a set of guidelines that shows me how to be a good person. Serve others, do good in the world. If in the end I was wrong, and I made someone else's life better, then so what? It was worth it.

"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important." - C.S. Lewis

 

[Saucy]

No I wouldn't. If I'm naked with my wife in a garden and a talking sna... entity told me something that contradicted what the god I believe in says, I'm going to go back to the god I believe in to get clarification.

You've never been tempted by something you really want, but know you shouldn't have? Have you even indulged in something you shouldn't have indulged in? Either by sin or maybe a parent told you not to sneak the cookies?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

You've never been tempted by something you really want, but know you shouldn't have? Have you even indulged in something you shouldn't have indulged in? Either by sin or maybe a parent told you not to sneak the cookies?

What's that got to do with the scenario that was presented?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why do they care so much about what other people believe?

Because beliefs inform actions.

If you don't believe in God, then go on your way. Why try to take my faith away from me?

I think a more appropriate question would be "why try to force your beliefs down my throat?"

I don't remember atheists stopping random people in the streets or going from door to door to deliver them "the good news".

Believe whatever you wish. Just keep it to yourself.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't remember atheists stopping random people in the streets or going from door to door to deliver them "the good news".

I have known a few who did that.

 

[Galatea]

Because beliefs inform actions.



I think a more appropriate question would be "why try to force your beliefs down my throat?"

I don't remember atheists stopping random people in the streets or going from door to door to deliver them "the good news".

Believe whatever you wish. Just keep it to yourself.

This is a Christian site, not an atheist one. Are atheists surprised when Christians try to witness to them on this site?

This is akin to you going to a Christian's house and telling them not to share their faith with you, although it is the Christian's house.

No one can MAKE you believe. You either do or do not.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The argument against "why punish mankind for the sins of Adam and Eve" is this: any other pair would have done the same. Think about it: Adam and Eve had no "bad genes", lived in a perfect environment, had no societal pressures, no media influence, no education, they were perfectly innocent- yet sinned. So would have you and your husband in their place, or anyone else. It is within us to be led astray.

Does that mean that we should jail every male that has daughters, because one particular father violently beat a guy to death after he got caught red-handed raping the man's daughter?

Or should we instead only deal with those fathers who have actually engaged in the sinful act of beating someone to death - for whatever reason?

If the first, then our collective sense of morality is superior to yours and that in your bible.
If the second, then the morality you adhere to is also superior to the one in your bible.

In either case, the ethical standards of the bible on this subject are questionable at best, and downright evil at worst.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I only get mad at atheists/agnostics...etc who don't ask out of learning but ask things just to troll. There are a few members on this forum who have been here for at least a decade and love to stir the pot in the sections they are allowed in to get christians mad at them, then they turn them in for breaking ToS. Which is why I am glad I am not a mod. I'd ban anyone who wasn't christian that was trolling. As for those who have legit questions, you can make progress with them and thus wouldn't be banned.

So, trolling is ok if the troll is a christian?

 

[Galatea]

Does that mean that we should jail every male that has daughters, because one particular father violently beat a guy to death after he got caught red-handed raping the man's daughter?

Or should we instead only deal with those fathers who have actually engaged in the sinful act of beating someone to death - for whatever reason?

If the first, then our collective sense of morality is superior to yours and that in your bible.
If the second, then the morality you adhere to is also superior to the one in your bible.

In either case, the ethical standards of the bible on this subject are questionable at best, and downright evil at worst.

I must be a pretty poor communicator. I tried to say that we have inherited a sin state. A sin nature. We have the nature of Adam and Eve. We aren't responsible for their sins. I don't know about you, but I have plenty of my own sins to worry about and be damned. But thanks be to God, who has given me the unspeakable gift- forgiveness through the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Atheists can be dogmatic too though. Some of them think they have found the truth. "there is no God."

I'm actually not aware of any atheists who make that positive claim.

 

[Rajni]

I'm actually not aware of any atheists who make that positive claim.

They're out there, though. Example: Why There Is No God: Quick Responses to 10 Common Theist Arguments

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This is a Christian site, not an atheist one. Are atheists surprised when Christians try to witness to them on this site?

I wasn't talking about this site.
I was just answering a general question about why atheists care what theists believe in general.

Yes, I'm fully aware that if I go to "their house", I'll be hearing "their" preaching. And that's fine.

This is akin to you going to a Christian's house and telling them not to share their faith with you, although it is the Christian's house.

It's not.

No one can MAKE you believe. You either do or do not.

There is only one way to make me believe anyting. And that is giving me rational justification to do so. In the form of evidence and/or non-fallacious arguments.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I must be a pretty poor communicator. I tried to say that we have inherited a sin state. A sin nature. We have the nature of Adam and Eve.

Well, you WERE pretty clear that the "reason" we are held accountable for it, is because we (apparantly) would have done the same in their place.

Hence my "father witnessing the rape of his daughter" analogy. I don't think I know a single father who would not go medieval on that rapist's bum if he catches him red-handed.

So it seems the same situation. According to your very own logic, we should therefor hold all fathers accountable for going medieval on a hypothetical rapist.

We aren't responsible for their sins.

But yet, we are supposedly held accountable for it.
This is making less and less sense while you are digging yourself deeper.

I don't know about you, but I have plenty of my own sins to worry about and be damned. But thanks be to God, who has given me the unspeakable gift- forgiveness through the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

That's not what "original sin" is all about though.
In Christian theology as it pertains to "original sin", you -as a human- could live a life free of all temptation and free of any sinfull act whatsoever, and yet you would still require "saving" for original sin.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

They're out there, though. Example: Why There Is No God: Quick Responses to 10 Common Theist Arguments

While the claim is made in the title, the article itself are just responses to 10 theistic arguments.

There's nothing in that article that even attempts to build a case for the "no god" claim. That leads me to believe that the title is just strong wording for click bait.

If my theory is correct, then questioning to author on the wording would result in him saying "well, no... off course we can't know that a god doesn't exist" and that a more accurate title would be "why there likely isn't a god" or "why the case for god remains unsupported" or something similar.

But off course, the goal of this title was sensation and click bait - not accuracy.

I could be wrong off course. And obviously I won't deny that you can find "strong atheists" who indeed make such a truth-claim.

I just don't know any such person personally, nore have I ever met one.
The few who actually uttered such words, would bring it down when called out on it and have no problem saying that it would be an unsupportable claim.

 

[Galatea]

Well, you WERE pretty clear that the "reason" we are held accountable for it, is because we (apparantly) would have done the same in their place.

Hence my "father witnessing the rape of his daughter" analogy. I don't think I know a single father who would not go medieval on that rapist's bum if he catches him red-handed.

So it seems the same situation. According to your very own logic, we should therefor hold all fathers accountable for going medieval on a hypothetical rapist.



But yet, we are supposedly held accountable for it.
This is making less and less sense while you are digging yourself deeper.



That's not what "original sin" is all about though.
In Christian theology as it pertains to "original sin", you -as a human- could live a life free of all temptation and free of any sinfull act whatsoever, and yet you would still require "saving" for original sin.

I am not a theologian, I am just a Christian. Original sin, in my conception of it, is that Adam and Eve rebelled against God by being disobedient to His word. This is the same thing that all of is would do, we have a sin nature, a rebellious nature.

God said "Do not eat this fruit." It doesn't sound like a big deal, does it? Well, we would have all eaten it, simply because it doesn't seem like a big deal or terrible thing- to eat a piece of delicious fruit. After all, God gave them permission to eat of all other fruit. I bet in my mind, and others we would have even justified it "Father gave us fruit, He likes is to be happy and give us gifts. He must not REALLY not care if we eat it."

The sin was disobedience, we're all froward and wayward.

 

[Galatea]

I wasn't talking about this site.
I was just answering a general question about why atheists care what theists believe in general.

Yes, I'm fully aware that if I go to "their house", I'll be hearing "their" preaching. And that's fine.



It's not.


There is only one way to make me believe anyting. And that is giving me rational justification to do so. In the form of evidence and/or non-fallacious arguments.

I believe the OP meant this site, but I am not sure.

Yes, it is. It is rather ridiculous to join a Christian site and be shocked when Christians actually try to witness to you. If I joined an Atheist site and got all steamed up because atheists tried to convince me to join their sad ranks, I'd be pretty silly.

No one can MAKE you believe anything. You either choose to believe or choose to disbelieve. It is a binary thing. Your reasons for believing or not believing something are immaterial.

 

[Rajni]

I could be wrong off course. And obviously I won't deny that you can find "strong atheists" who indeed make such a truth-claim.

And that was my point in presenting one example out of what is probably plenty out there. Whether one is aware of any atheists making that claim (post 154) doesn't negate other claims that they have (post 64), or vice versa.