Why do some Christians act so hostile toward questions?

[CrystalDragon]

In reality, the powers at be that determined what would be included in the bible, was a bit of a marketing decision. This also includes, text that was added centuries later and names attached to the gospels, 100+ years after they were penned.

And how we only have four Gospels just because a bishop in 180 AD thought the number should match the four winds, four cardinal directions, many animals having four legs, etc.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="CrystalDragon, post: 71103066, member: 386732"]But the Bible had many books that weren't included or almost weren't. Dozens of Gospels were rejected. How can we be sure the Bible is "the original source"? The Book of Enoch is mentioned in the Bible but it's not in the Bible itself. It was deemed not canon but it was seen as canon to those in Bible times. With that in mind, how can we know?[/QUOTE]
In red above , 3 things,
if someone believes that,
they won't know until they find out otherwise.
i.e. TRUST GOD, not men.
TRUSTING GOD is entirely totally different than trusting men. GOD says to TRUST GOD.

How then can we know?

Simple. The FATHER in heaven reveals it - HE tells us.
As posted earlier >
"If you don't question, you won't know. If you don't test each one, you won't know. If you seek the truth, and keep seeking(we never stop seeking truth and GOD'S KINGDOM), then you will know. (guaranteed)The source is our FATHER IN HEAVEN. "

 

[FundyJohn]

It seems like often when doubters/agnostics/atheists present questions or problems to Christians, some get hostile.

My experience is that most of those "doubters/agnostics/atheists start out as the aggressor. Now being that it is only anecdotal I can't claim it to be a truth but I would bet that much of what is considered christian hostility to such questions is in response to hostile confrontation. Christians however are not justified in such a response but humans are imperfect and Christians are humans.

They say that they're trying to spread deceit, that they aren't true Christians, that doubting is dangerous, that they'll go to hell, etc.

I've been to some of the most fundamentalist churches around and I've never heard anyone respond in such a manner to honest questioning which of course is not only natural but also healthy.

Why do many seem so afraid to question their faith and threaten or guilt-trip those who do?

Why do you think it's fear? This is a strawman argument.

If Christians are so confident of the Truth, why do they rebuke others for honestly questioning?

Again never heard of such a thing. I can assure you if these things occur they are certainly not the rule.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The truth doesn't hide from questioning. If Christians are so confident of the Truth, why do they rebuke others for honestly questioning?

Yes, this happens continually. Usually a gag order, court or other authority, is used to squach honest questions.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I've been to some of the most fundamentalist churches around and I've never heard anyone respond in such a manner to honest questioning which of course is not only natural but also healthy.

It happens often online. I've been here a long time, and I can't begin to count the number of times that a simple challenge to a Christian's faith degraded into "Oh yeah, well you're going to go to hell and suffer eternally."

It's at that point that I realize that the responder doesn't have an actual answer, and is just lashing out because not having an answer makes them uncomfortable.

 

[Rebecca12]

I don't think people make up their variations on Christianity.

When I said people "make up what is called Christianity" I meant make up as in comprise. I do agree that the variations on Christianity primarily come from traditions taught to people. But what is "true" doctrine is clearly a matter of dispute among Christians.

THE BIBLE is the SOURCE, GOD'S WORD, perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. Simple also. TRUTH - none better. As BREATHED BY GOD. And as REVEALED by GOD to all of HIS children.

Simple? Yet Christians continue to disagree. Even those Christians who read the Bible.

Well, it's meant to be the beginning of a conversation. He would then ask them to tell him what the God of the Bible is like (from what they've heard). And given the variations in modern Christianity, that view can be pretty warped - meaning we don't believe in it either.

In fact, if I had encountered only Theology, I doubt I would be a Christian either.

Two basic things about the Bible are entirely incomprehensible to me. Original sin. Human Sacrifice. Both basic to your religion.

 

[CrystalDragon]

My experience is that most of those "doubters/agnostics/atheists start out as the aggressor. Now being that it is only anecdotal I can't claim it to be a truth but I would bet that much of what is considered christian hostility to such questions is in response to hostile confrontation. Christians however are not justified in such a response but humans are imperfect and Christians are humans.

I've seen many here, myself included, ask such questions in a calm, conversational manner, and get hostile non-answers.

I've been to some of the most fundamentalist churches around and I've never heard anyone respond in such a manner to honest questioning which of course is not only natural but also healthy.

Like Todd said, it happens often online, here more times than I remember.

Why do you think it's fear? This is a strawman argument.

How is it a strawman? Many times I've seen people here appeal to fear and say things like "You shouldn't ask questions, just trust God!" or saying "Are you more moral than God?" like they're threatened and see the questioning as an attack, so in turn they try to scare people out of questioning. Maybe because they're afraid in some cases to dwell on the questions themselves.

Again never heard of such a thing. I can assure you if these things occur they are certainly not the rule.

Again, they occur quite often online, like here.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Simple? Yet Christians continue to disagree. Even those Christians who read the Bible.

How about that.
Why would something very simple,

be twisted into a thousand complicated (____________)
that destruct, confuse, and mislead people ?
Can you think of a reason ?
=======================================

Two basic things about the Bible are entirely incomprehensible to me. Original sin. Human Sacrifice. Both basic to your religion.

Not my religion.
Someone told you a story. (and you believed them?) Or what?
Yes, they are incomprehensible to many .... btw....

 

[Rebecca12]

How is it a strawman? Many times I've seen people here appeal to fear and say things like "You shouldn't ask questions, just trust God!" or saying "Are you more moral than God?" like they're threatened and see the questioning as an attack, so in turn they try to scare people out of questioning. Maybe because they're afraid in some cases to dwell on the questions themselves.

I suggest being careful about assuming that they are afraid or trying to scare you. It rarely ends well to guess people's motives because if you are at all off, or they perceive it different from you, it can lead to a secondary argument. You could say that you feel like they are trying to scare you when they talk about hell. And that you feel like they are not responding to your specific questions. It is subtle but it is different. One is about them, the other about you.

My experience is that most of those "doubters/agnostics/atheists start out as the aggressor. Now being that it is only anecdotal I can't claim it to be a truth but I would bet that much of what is considered christian hostility to such questions is in response to hostile confrontation. Christians however are not justified in such a response but humans are imperfect and Christians are humans.

I have had pleasant interactions with Christians on this forum and some less pleasant. One Christian poster repeatedly insulted me. I let it go because I was confrontational first. If you will, I was the aggressor. Of course I believe that my initial post was justified and I am sure he believes he was justified.

Another less pleasant interaction with a Christian involved someone who totally misunderstood much of what I said and others said, some Christians and some not. She was the questioner, not us. She didn't seem to listen to responses and became rather hostile. I gave up and backed out of the discussion. I think the thread ended up deleted.

I had one discussion where I worked hard not to make assumptions and to be civil. The Christian man talked about how he was likable and good at changing minds. I quizzed him about it. We also talked about "choosing" to believe and I felt like I talked past him on the issue of what goes into making a choice. As the conversation wore on we began to lose patience with each other. He told me I was going to hell. (I am sympathetic to the OP, hell pronouncements are real conversation stoppers). He told me others of a certain persuasion were going to hell unless they changed their nature. I in turn said he was judging us. I got the response that I usually get, it isn't me, it is God judging you and I am simply pointing out your error. I have never found that argument at all persuasive. Sure you are judging me, you are making a judgment based upon you think God would do. I told him to own it. For all he said about being likable, I did not find him very likeable. But I liked him better than I would if he pretended to be all nicey nice while keeping quiet about his belief that I and others were going to hell.

My most unpleasant interaction involved an issue that had little or nothing to do with Christianity. In the course of the discussion I mentioned that I was a retired lawyer. He accused me of lying about that and said he didn't believe a thing atheists say. I offered to prove up my bonafides but he refused the offer. His posts were highly aggressive. He did delete one of his posts but his accusation that atheists should not be believed remained. It really colored my view of this forum because of the silence of other Christians in the face of his behavior. I didn't report him. Sometimes I think bad behaviour should stand as a lesson.

I am sharing my experience to show my perceptions, like you I claim nothing about who is the most hostile. Our world views are so dramatically different that it is hard to have a discussion of any depth. However, we all might be a bit less hostile in discussions if we did not assume the other side had some kind of bad motive unless they clearly evidence bad faith. Like the Christian who assumed I am a liar simply because I am an atheist. The ultimate ad hominem.

 

[Rebecca12]

How about that.
Why would something very simple,

be twisted into a thousand complicated (____________)
that destruct, confuse, and mislead people ?
Can you think of a reason ?
=======================================

Not my religion.
Someone told you a story. (and you believed them?) Or what?
Yes, they are incomprehensible to many .... btw....

I read the Bible. No one is telling me a story. Your religion believes in the sacrifice of Jesus. Or do you believe something else? Do you believe in the fall of man?

Why is there confusion? Because Christians are human. And the Bible is easy to cherry pick. You don't need to have another character in the story to explain the confusion.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I read the Bible. No one is telling me a story. Your religion believes in the sacrifice of Jesus.

This is not what you said.
I think you on purpose changed your words from the original precept(post) that I replied to. I didn't get any further than this.

 

[Rebecca12]

This is not what you said.
I think you on purpose changed your words from the original precept(post) that I replied to. I didn't get any further than this.

I think we are crossing wires. I don't understand your post. I am traveling so I might not have time to backtrack to see where the misunderstanding arose. I am not purposely changing my words.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If you don't question, you won't know. If you don't test each one, you won't know. If you seek the truth, and keep seeking(we never stop seeking truth and GOD'S KINGDOM), then you will know. (guaranteed)

The source is our FATHER IN HEAVEN. The so-called scholars and leaders after the apostles passed on are not a reliable source, nor a good one as far as I can tell - too many flavors (different non-biblical ideas introduced already).
Stay with the source - THE BIBLE. It is the best, and GOD says GOD GUARDS HIS WORD - (note that GOD does not say anyone guarded the leaders and scholars after the first century - wolves and heretics and antichrists were already there - as GOD'S WORD says would be).
THE BIBLE is the SOURCE, GOD'S WORD, perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. Simple also. TRUTH - none better. As BREATHED BY GOD. And as REVEALED by GOD to all of HIS children.


Find out DIRECTLY WHO GOD is, and WHAT HE is like - ask GOD. (not men).
< shrugs > makes sense ! - THAT'S what HE says to do. THrough all HIS WORD.

IN HIS WORD, GOD says HE speaks to us through JESUS, HIS SON. (HEBREWS 1). HE also says who HE used to speak to men through, and it does not include anyone after the apostles died. Who is better than JESUS ? Who is better than GOD'S WORD ? No one.

i.e. go straight to the source - go straight to the author of SCRIPTURE. Ask HIM. Read HIS WORD to find out what HE is like. (men are so fallable, HIS WORD is TRUTH)

The problem with your approach, ysj, is that if you can't trust the early Church Fathers, then you can't trust the Bible. There were as many spurious writings purported to be from the Apostles as real ones. So how do you know your Bible has the right ones? I believe that it does (well, except that some were excised a few centuries ago to save on printing costs). But essentially, your Bible is correct. But the reason it is correct is that the Holy Spirit led the Church, which Scripture says is the pillar and foundation of the truth, to RECOGNIZE which ones are correct.

If you know history, it makes no sense to toss out the early Church and accept the Bible at the same time. They are intimately connected. The Bible is the product of the Church.

Not looking to argue, especially not this week. But things become SO much easier to understand, and make SO MUCH more sense, when viewed in the full context. This is what I was saying to our atheist and agnostic friends, in case any are interested. If it helps any of them, or any lurkers, then glory to God. And if you're good as you are, then Glory to God. I'm not wanting to bicker for the sake of bickering. I was giving information to others who might find it helpful, that's all.

Peace to you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Without knowing why for a long time, the FATHER in heaven kept me safe from, prevented me from reading the ecf.
Later, when I was ready, or GOD was ready, HE showed me why.
Very simple and truth, completely why.

So I trust the BIBLE entirely, as GOD said in the first place to TRUST HIM, that GOD HIMSELF GUARDED HIS WORD, and not trust men.
I do not trust men until they are tested and proven true to me, because of what GOD'S WORD says, what HIS SPIRIT says, and because of the damage done by the ecf. (not all of them, but too many to try to discuss; and the results of trusting them instead of GOD'S WORD)

 

[~Anastasia~]

When I said people "make up what is called Christianity" I meant make up as in comprise. I do agree that the variations on Christianity primarily come from traditions taught to people. But what is "true" doctrine is clearly a matter of dispute among Christians.



Simple? Yet Christians continue to disagree. Even those Christians who read the Bible.




Two basic things about the Bible are entirely incomprehensible to me. Original sin. Human Sacrifice. Both basic to your religion.

Forgive me please ... I might miss posts, because this is Holy Week.

Firstly, we don't teach Original Sin as first taught by the Catholic Church, and which the West sort of inherited the idea of. It wasn't understood in the same way by the early Christians.

I'd probably be stabbing in the dark if I tried to address your concern without knowing what it is. We do acknowledge ancestral sin, which has to do with the world not being idyllic, and human beings dying a physical death as a matter of course.

Human sacrifice - I'm guessing you mean Jesus Christ? That's actually very interesting too ... the early Church (and we still today) see the main feature in His death being that death is defeated. I may not be able to explain it well - you might want to look up "Christus Victor" (I'm hoping THEY explain it well if you do!). Basically this - God IS Life, and the Source of it. He (as God) cannot die. But Christ-God became human so that He could die in that body dying ... but in this way, death received God into itself, in a way, and was destroyed. Yes, He also reconciled us to God, and made atonement for our sins.

But the whole model of a bloodthirsty God-the-Father demanding some suffering, blood, and punishment, without which He is UNABLE to forgive (even if He wanted to, which He is often painted as not even wanting to) ... and which also essentially pits Him against Christ-God-the-Son ... is COMPLETELY at odds with how the early Church understood the whole thing. What I tend to think is that if this is how God is presented to someone who doesn't believe, it's no wonder they would reject the whole thing!

Forgive me if this doesn't make sense, and I deliberately went far in one end of the spectrum portraying the beliefs of some in order to make a point. Some are indeed more moderate.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Without knowing why for a long time, the FATHER in heaven kept me safe from, prevented me from reading the ecf.
Later, when I was ready, or GOD was ready, HE showed me why.
Very simple and truth, completely why.

So I trust the BIBLE entirely, as GOD said in the first place to TRUST HIM, that GOD HIMSELF GUARDED HIS WORD, and not trust men.
I do not trust men until they are tested and proven true to me, because of what GOD'S WORD says, what HIS SPIRIT says, and because of the damage done by the ecf. (not all of them, but too many to try to discuss; and the results of trusting them instead of GOD'S WORD)

Well, I should point out that they should not be read just without any real overview of understanding. Some things were still being worked out, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And it is critical that we do not believe any person can be infallible. Truth comes from the consensus, reached by prayer.

A person can get some really wrong ideas by choosing the wrong person to read on the wrong topic ...