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There is no scripture in all of Gods' Word that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" According to the scriptures the Sabbath is "the Lords day" see Matthew 12:8.
Psa 111:7 The works of his hands are faithful and just; all his precepts are trustworthy;
Psa 111:8 they are established forever and ever, to be performed with faithfulness and uprightness.
Yes, all of His precepts. But Adventists do not observe all of His precepts. Because, like the others you are speaking to in this thread, they see some of them as fulfilled. For instance, the first fruits is a statute forever. Work is forbidden. But no one is claiming in this thread that we should observe it.
Lev 23:21 And you shall make a proclamation on the same day. You shall hold a holy convocation. You shall not do any ordinary work. It is a statute forever in all your dwelling places throughout your generations.
Proverbs 30:5,6 This includes God's holy laws that God personally wrote and is stored in the ark of the Most Holy in God's Temple.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.
Indeed, all of His words are true. And yes, it includes the ten commandments. But it also includes all the commandments.
Yet some of those commandments you do not think have to be observed.
I noted, in response to your statement, that in context Psalm 89:34 is talking about the covenant with the house of David, fulfilled in Christ, who reigns on David's throne. You did not seem to dispute that. I pointed it out so that you could limit your evidence to the best examples of what you are saying.
If you state all of God's words are upheld, but then only observe some of them, (as do those you are speaking with as well), then the conversation needs to be about why some are still observed, and others are not, rather than general statements about all of God's words being upheld.
Early Christians started calling Sunday the Lord's Day because the resurrection took place on a Sunday.
Scripturally, the Day of the Lord is the second coming of Christ Acts of the Apostles 2:17-21; 1 Thessalonians 5:2.
I don't think you answered the question. Are ALL FLESH assembling on the Sabbath currently? (Or on the new moon). And if you simply take it as time periods, then it is month to month and week to week. I don't think that is what it is saying, given the texts already presented regarding assembly on the Sabbath (and new moon). And you don't seem to think that is what it is saying either since you specifically note the Sabbath. But you treat the new moon differently.
Colossians 2:16 —
“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”
All scholars agree that Paul here refers to yearly feasts, monthly rituals and weekly Sabbath worship. These are representative of all the Jewish religious rituals.
I see, so how do you keep the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments by breaking the Sabbath when the scriptures tell us that by breaking the law we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7 and 1 John 3:4? How can anyone claim to know God when God's Word says And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:3-4). Is not what you have posted above a contradiction of the scriptures? By the way there was no Jew, no Moses, and no Israel when Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3 so not sure what your trying to argue here.I would say that a lot of us do exactly that, but we do not make it a requirement of the worship of Christ. I know that for myself.....the witnessing and preaching of Christ so as men can be saved, far exceeds the idea of a Holy day that was given to the JEWS.
Here perhaps I can help MMXX. Leviticus 23 is in reference to the days of holy convocation under the annual Feast days. The Sabbath of Gods' 4th commandment although a weekly commandment is included here because the annual Feasts included other sabbaths or days of holy convocation linked directly to the Feast days and these would change depending on the yearly cycle and some Feast days went longer than 7 days. So in the Hebrew "a holy convocation" (קֹדֶשׁ ; מִקְרָא) which the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment fitted into in the annual Feast days means a "a calling out to a public meeting or sacred place". So God's people that kept the Feasts of the old covenant were already at the sacred place they were called out to go to keep the Feast days when they were keeping God's "seventh day" Sabbath but they were still expected to keep Gods' 4th commandment when at the annual Feast days.Then what does the part that keeps getting edited out mean? ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings. Leviticus 23:3
According to the scriptures if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God of sin *1 John 3:4. If any of us continue living in a life of known unrepentant sin once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17 and reject it, is a pretty BIG deal in God's eyes because we will be in danger of the judgement (see Hebrews 10:26-31). Our opinions do not really matter much here. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says Gods' 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break God's 4th commandment in favor of man-made teachings. Jesus warns us in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God. Do you believe these words of Jesus?
Here perhaps I can help MMXX. Leviticus 23 is in reference to the days of holy convocation under the annual Feast days. The Sabbath of Gods' 4th commandment although a weekly commandment is included here because the annual Feasts included other sabbaths or days of holy convocation linked directly to the Feast days and these would change depending on the yearly cycle and some Feast days went longer than 7 days. So in the Hebrew "a holy convocation" (קֹדֶשׁ ; מִקְרָא) which the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment fitted into in the annual Feast days means a "a calling out to a public meeting or sacred place". So God's people that kept the Feasts of the old covenant were already at the sacred place they were called out to go to keep the Feast days when they were keeping God's "seventh day" Sabbath but they were still expected to keep Gods' 4th commandment when at the annual Feast days.
Hope this makes sense.
The old problem always arises with this, because James 2:10 says "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.". And we all know that everyone, except Jesus, is guilty of this. Keeping the parts of the Law SDA teaches to keep, doesn't cut it. It's all or nothing. 99.9% of Law keeping won't save you.
No we do not observe those feast days because they are shadows pointing to things to come under the new covenant and are linked to the "shadow laws" for remission of sins that are now fulfilled in Christ. For example 1 Corinthians 5:7-8 [7], Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8], Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. For me personally though I do not judge anyone for keeping them. Especially if they understand what those Feasts point to in the new covenant. Yes I know there meaning and what they represent.So the Sabbath is only a holy convocation at certain times, such as Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and the like. Do SDA observe all those feast days? Do you even know what they are all called, and their meaning, and when they take place without looking it up?
A new moon in the context of assembly does not just mean month. They would have a burnt offering on the new moon:
Num 28:11 “At the beginnings of your months, you shall offer a burnt offering to the LORD: two bulls from the herd, one ram, seven male lambs a year old without blemish;
Num 28:12 also three tenths of an ephah of fine flour for a grain offering, mixed with oil, for each bull, and two tenths of fine flour for a grain offering, mixed with oil, for the one ram;
Num 28:13 and a tenth of fine flour mixed with oil as a grain offering for every lamb; for a burnt offering with a pleasing aroma, a food offering to the LORD.
Num 28:14 Their drink offerings shall be half a hin of wine for a bull, a third of a hin for a ram, and a quarter of a hin for a lamb. This is the burnt offering of each month throughout the months of the year.
Num 28:15 Also one male goat for a sin offering to the LORD; it shall be offered besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.
Indications of assembly, and grouping with the Sabbath:
2Ki 4:22 Then she called to her husband and said, “Send me one of the servants and one of the donkeys, that I may quickly go to the man of God and come back again.”
2Ki 4:23 And he said, “Why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath.” She said, “All is well.”
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations— I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
Eze_46:1 “Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Amo_8:5 saying, “When will the new moon be over, that we may sell grain? And the Sabbath, that we may offer wheat for sale, that we may make the ephah small and the shekel great and deal deceitfully with false balances,
No we do not observe those feast days because they are shadows pointing to things to come under the new covenant and are linked to the "shadow laws" for remission of sins that are now fulfilled in Christ. For example 1 Corinthians 5:7-8 [7], Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8], Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. For me personally though I do not judge anyone for keeping them. Especially if they understand what those Feasts point to in the new covenant. Yes I know there meaning and what they represent.
What do you think that certain point would be?Sounds like SDA see it the same way as the rest of Christianity, but only up to a certain point.
For me I do not have a problem with this scripture MMXX. Is your name Max by the way? If so do you mind me calling you Max?
Arr ok thanks Brian fair enough my name is David nice to meet youMy name is Brian Kelly. MMXX are Roman numerals for 2020, which is the year I joined CF. Maybe someday I'll come up with something better and ask to have it changed.
What do you think that certain point would be Max?
Arr ok thanks Brian fair enough my name is David nice to meet you.
Well beside the dietary laws Brian which we still believe are applicable not everything in the old testament scriptures are shadow laws. According to the scriptures in Hebrews it is the Mosaic "shadow laws" for remission of sins under the old covenant that are fulfilled in Christ as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all *John 1:29; John 1:36; Hebrews 10:10 and Jesus is now our Great High Priest of the order of Melchizedek according to Hebrews 7:1-25 who know ministers on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary of which the earthly was only a copy based on better promises. So this whole old testament covenant or system of the laws for remission of sins (Levitical Priesthood, under an earthly Sanctuary, animal sacrifices and sin offerings, circumcision and the Feast days) are fulfilled and now continued in Christ under God's plan of salvation under the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-13; see also Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22. These being all "shadow laws" having their fulfillment in God's new covenant promise and the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17. Where we have "shadow sabbaths" in the annual Feast days pointing to Gods' work in the new covenant in the ministration of Jesus. The shadow sabbaths of the annual Feast days are not the same as God's 4th commandment which is a memorial of the finished work of creation so it actually points backwards and not forwards to things to come. As posted earlier to someone else already if you look at the context of Colossians 2:16 you will see that Colossians 2:16 is not talking about the "seventh day" Sabbath of God's 4th commandment. It is talking about the sabbaths or sabbath days (Genitive neuter plural in the Greek) not singular while the scripture context is to the meat and drink offerings and new moons and sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days which is the scripture context. According to the scriptures there were many different types of sabbaths in the old covenant. In the annual Feast days for example that Colossians 2:16 is talking about there were many sabbaths that were linked directly to certain Feasts and would fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. These Feast day sabbaths (not Gods 4th commandment) included for example; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36. So context of Colossians 2:16 is to the Sabbaths in the annual Feast days being a "shadow of things to come" Colossians 2:17 not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments because God's 4th commandment does not point forward to things to come but backwards to the finished work of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth as a memorial of creation - "Remember" the Sabbath day to keep it holy *Exodus 20:8.You tell me. At what point to shadow laws become laws Christians have to keep according to SDA? Mostly all I know of is a piecemeal keeping of the sabbath and not eating pork and shellfish.
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