Why do religious believers try to impose their beliefs on others?

[3sigma]

They are not "unsubstantiated religious beliefs,"

However, you’ve [post=50150577]said[/post] yourself that you cannot substantiate them, but you don’t even care that you can’t substantiate them.

There are--for the moment, at least--more children of Christians in the public schools than children of atheists

Nevertheless, it remains unconstitutional to teach these unscientific beliefs in public school science classes.

i have given your question a lot of thought over the years, and have come to the conclusion that the extreme measures that supposed "believers" take in supposed "defense" of their beliefs and their deity seems to stem from a lack of experiental knowledge of that which they are "defending".

Actually, I think twistedsketch’s explanation makes more sense. It appears that churches and religions behave like totalitarian regimes because they crave power.

 

[3sigma]

Please name three countries where Christianity is the dominant religion, and christians have laws against the public against blasphemy. you are such a stickler for facts, please back up this claim.

All you had to do was look up blasphemy at Encyclopædia Britannica or Wikipedia to obtain a list of countries where Christianity is the dominant religion and there are laws against blasphemy. Notice that in Scotland, a Christian country, people have been put to death for blasphemy.

 

[Apodictic]

I believe neither should be taught in school, because they are both unprovable and non-empirical. They are both based on conjecture and/or faith. Although I believe God created everything, it is not my place to push this belief on the children of other faiths. And the same applies for evolution and the big bang. It is a scientific fairy tale.

We Christians are right in our identification of the theory as being no more substantiated than creationism. But I do not believe two wrongs makes a right. Both should not be taught in schools. Teach them to your children outside school!

 

[Maranatha27]

All you had to do was look up blasphemy at Encyclopædia Britannica or Wikipedia to obtain a list of countries where Christianity is the dominant religion and there are laws against blasphemy. Notice that in Scotland, a Christian country, people have been put to death for blasphemy.

Hi sigma

Your evidence has brought us back to the 1700s, I think this is a poor argument against Christianity. Now, since knowledge has increase and masses of humanity have read the scriptures, the fruit it has produced is contrary to what you claim against it. In fact we have seen an exponential increase of Christian martyrdom in the 20th century.

There is coming a time rapidly approaching where Christianity will be illegal.

 

[3sigma]

Your evidence has brought us back to the 1700s, I think this is a poor argument against Christianity.

How so? It was Christians behaving according to their beliefs who enacted the blasphemy laws and who put the blasphemers to death. It was Christians behaving according to their beliefs who instigated the various Inquisitions and who burned witches. Christians impose their beliefs and their will on others when they have the power to do so. I’m asking why Christians behave according to their beliefs in this way. Why do Christians and other religious believers so harshly impose their beliefs and their will on others when they have the power to do so?

Now, since knowledge has increase and masses of humanity have read the scriptures, the fruit it has produced is contrary to what you claim against it.

I think the more plausible explanation is that Christians no longer have the necessary political power to impose their beliefs and their will on others in such extreme ways. Western governments have become increasingly secular over time. The knowledge that has increased is knowledge of the natural world and how it works. It is this reduction of ignorance and superstition in today’s Western societies that more plausibly explains the repeals of draconian laws and penalties for perceived religious offences. However, we can see that in other countries today where religious believers do have the necessary power and where ignorance and superstition are rife among the general population, this harmful behaviour still occurs. There are countries today where there are religious laws and religious police and where people are still put to death for blasphemy and apostasy. Why do religious believers so harshly impose their beliefs and their will on others when they have the power to do so?

There is coming a time rapidly approaching where Christianity will be illegal.

I doubt that this will ever happen. However, I do hope that at some point in the future, most people will have enough education and enough sense to see religious belief as a harmful superstition and relinquish it.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Actually, I think twistedsketch’s explanation makes more sense. It appears that churches and religions behave like totalitarian regimes because they crave power.

MY BROTHER,

i cannot speak to other religions, but in regards to Christianity, what you state above is, of course, demonstrably true at certain times in certain places among those masquarading as "christians". However, by the very fact that they "behave like totalitarian regimes", they relinquish their right to be considered "christian" due to the fact that their power-based asperations are diametrically opposed to the teachings of our Lord. One has only to read the beautiful summary of Jesus Christ's teachings contained in The Sermon on the Mount--Matthew Chapters 5-7--noting especially, perhaps, the Beatitudes in Chapter 5 verses 3-12--to see that religious totalitarianism can in no way be an expression of true Christianity any more than rape can be a true expression of love.

As our Lord stated, "You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and who ever wants to be first must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."(Mark 10:42-45)

Enfin, "Power-hunger christians" is an oxymoron, and the "totalitarianism" of the "church" is a straw-man. Neither appelation can be applied to either Jesus Christ or His followers. Our Lord strictly demanded of His followers--"If you Love Me, keep My Commandments"(John 14:15), and those who fall short of this mark can not--and should not--be confused with those who do. A wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf, just as a defacto atheist with "spiritual" pretensions is still an atheist, no matter what they try to call themselves.

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[ebia]

For example, why do Christians constantly try to enact laws to force the teaching of creationism in public school science classes? Why have religious believers around the world enacted blasphemy laws with penalties of imprisonment and death? Why do religious believers try to impose their unsubstantiated beliefs on others and force others to comply with those beliefs?

Most religious believers around the world don't try to impose more on others than is absolutely necessary.

But if one's religious position really does have things to say about how things are then it does have things to say about how people - including non-believers - behave. If one understands full human life to begin at conception then one will view abortion as murder and (quite appropriately) oppose it as one would oppose allowing any other form of murder. If one understands inappropriate utterances of the name of God to be damaging for creation one would necessarly oppose such just as one would oppose (say) a pollutor damaging creation.

The fact that you regard a religious belief as "unsubstantiated" is really a red-herring. Anyone must oppose any behaviour that which he or she understand to be damaging to a third party.

Of course such opposition is not always in good faith, and is sometimes nothing more than an imposition of power - but that doesn't negate the real question.

None of the Abrahamic faiths have "A private spirituality that you can keep private" as an option because they have substantive things to say about the consequences of our behaviour on our relationship with each other and the rest of creation as well as with God.

 

[3sigma]

The fact that you regard a religious belief as "unsubstantiated" is really a red-herring.

No, it isn’t a red herring; it is a plain and simple fact that your religious beliefs are unsubstantiated. The existence of your God has not been established by proof or competent evidence. If there is no Christian God then it didn’t create anything, Jesus was not God or the Son of God and there is no God to perform miracles or answer prayers. Without the Christian God, Christianity has no foundation. If you want to claim that your religious beliefs have been substantiated then please provide some proof or competent evidence verifying that your God exists.

But if one's religious position really does have things to say about how things are then it does have things to say about how people - including non-believers - behave. If one understands full human life to begin at conception then one will view abortion as murder and (quite appropriately) oppose it as one would oppose allowing any other form of murder. If one understands inappropriate utterances of the name of God to be damaging for creation one would necessarly oppose such just as one would oppose (say) a pollutor damaging creation.

But if all these opinions are based on nothing more than unsubstantiated beliefs then surely they have no validity. How can these opinions be well founded, justifiable, relevant and meaningful if they have no foundation?

None of the Abrahamic faiths have "A private spirituality that you can keep private" as an option because they have substantive things to say about the consequences of our behaviour on our relationship with each other and the rest of creation as well as with God.

There is nothing substantive about opinions based on unsubstantiated beliefs. If you think Christianity has something substantive to say then first substantiate the beliefs on which it depends. Show us that Christian opinions are well founded and justifiable. Please provide some proof or competent evidence verifying that your God exists.

 

[ebia]

No, it isn’t a red herring; it is a plain and simple fact that your religious beliefs are unsubstantiated. The existence of your God has not been established by proof or competent evidence. If there is no Christian God then it didn’t create anything, Jesus was not God or the Son of God and there is no God to perform miracles or answer prayers. Without the Christian God, Christianity has no foundation. If you want to claim that your religious beliefs have been substantiated then please provide some proof or competent evidence verifying that your God exists.

I wasn't commenting on whether or not it is substantiated, but on whether or not that's relevant. People stand up for what they hold to be true and assess what the limits of tolerable behaviour are from that. Whether or not someone else regards their viewpoint as "substantiated" is irrelevant to the person holding the view. If abortion is wrong (say) then it's wrong whether or not I can persuade you that it is wrong.

But if all these opinions are based on nothing more than unsubstantiated beliefs then surely they have no validity.

Truth is truth, and damaging behaviour is damaging behaviour, whether or not I can persuade the sceptic or the person behaving in the damaging way of that.

How can these opinions be well founded, justifiable, relevant and meaningful if they have no foundation?

Clearly everybody holding a view does think it has a foundation, and everybody else doesn't.

There is nothing substantive about opinions based on unsubstantiated beliefs. If you think Christianity has something substantive to say then first substantiate the beliefs on which it depends. Show us that Christian opinions are well founded and justifiable. Please provide some proof or competent evidence verifying that your God exists.

I'll stick to the topic, thanks. If one understands a behaviour to be damaging to a third party one has an obligation to address the behaviour even if one cannot persade the person acting in a damaging way that their behaviour is damaging.

 

[Sketcher]

However, as you noted earlier, you are actually speaking about totalitarian Communist regimes. The regimes you describe are motivated by the desire to remain in power not by atheism.

Which is kind of funny, since Communism is the only model for an "atheist state" that the atheists have been able to invent and implement on a large scale. There's also post-Revolutionary France, but that doesn't exactly deserve a medal either.

 

[ephraimanesti]

The bottom line, of course, is that if you perceive yourself as being merely an "evolved animal" as atheists hold themselves to be, you are inexorably going to end up acting according to your belief. For this reason, atheistic societies will ALWAYS, sooner or later, end up with Gulags, "re-education camps", and the deaths of millions who are "sacrificed for the good of the State (read "Herd").

Thanks be to God that as Christians we know exactly who and what we are--beloved children created in the Image and Likeness of our Heavenly Father and bound to Him and each other by Love, not animals crawling about in the muck and feeding off of one another.

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[Blackmarch]

For example, why do Christians constantly try to enact laws to force the teaching of creationism in public school science classes? Why have religious believers around the world enacted blasphemy laws with penalties of imprisonment and death? Why do religious believers try to impose their unsubstantiated beliefs on others and force others to comply with those beliefs?

beats me, I've hardly ever done so.. I think it's more of a human nature (or human nature in regards to personal beliefs) to do things like that rather than something fundamental to religion or any one system.

 

[3sigma]

I wasn't commenting on whether or not it is substantiated, but on whether or not that's relevant. People stand up for what they hold to be true and assess what the limits of tolerable behaviour are from that.

Wouldn’t it be more appropriate to assess the limits of tolerable behaviour based on what is actually true rather than on unsubstantiated beliefs? Then we could avoid imposing harsh penalties on people for insulting Santa Claus, for example.

Truth is truth, and damaging behaviour is damaging behaviour, whether or not I can persuade the sceptic or the person behaving in the damaging way of that.

The truth is that your beliefs are unsubstantiated. Don’t you think that imprisoning or killing people for insulting an immaterial concept is damaging behaviour?

Clearly everybody holding a view does think it has a foundation, and everybody else doesn't.

This isn’t merely a matter of differing opinions. The belief that your God exists is unsubstantiated. That’s a fact not merely an opinion. Even you must agree that the existence of your God has not been established by proof or competent evidence. Why do you keep trying to pass that fact off as merely an opinion? If you think the existence of your God has been substantiated then by all means please establish that by providing some proof or competent evidence.

I'll stick to the topic, thanks. If one understands a behaviour to be damaging to a third party one has an obligation to address the behaviour even if one cannot persade the person acting in a damaging way that their behaviour is damaging.

Is imprisoning or killing people for blasphemy and apostasy behaviour that is damaging to people or not? How should we address that behaviour? Is trying to force teaching the non-science of creationism in science classes damaging to children’s science education or not? How should we address that behaviour?

 

[3sigma]

I think it's more of a human nature (or human nature in regards to personal beliefs) to do things like that rather than something fundamental to religion or any one system.

You think forcing people to comply with unsubstantiated beliefs is human nature rather than being fundamental to a religion? However, both the Bible and the Qur’an repeatedly exhort believers to shun or kill disbelievers. Don’t you think the intolerance of religious believers could perhaps be traced to these religious teachings?

 

[ephraimanesti]

You think forcing people to comply with unsubstantiated beliefs is human nature rather than being fundamental to a religion? However, both the Bible and the Qur’an repeatedly exhort believers to shun or kill disbelievers. Don’t you think the intolerance of religious believers could perhaps be traced to these religious teachings?

Then from whence came the slaughter of millions upon millions of Christians, Jews, Muslims, and other deists/theists/spiritual seekers in the last century by atheists the minute they came to power in places such as U.S.S.R., Peoples' Republic of China, etc.?

The continued brazen attempt by atheists to point accusing fingers at believers and call them "intolerant" boggles the mind when one looks at the horrendous crimes against humanity perpetrated by atheists against believers as quickly as the opportunity presented itself. As a comparison--In the approximately 300 years of its existence, the infamous Spanish Inquisition executed less than 2000 people for heresy.(THE SPANISH INQUISITION by Henry Kamen) In the approximately 80 years it was in power, the atheist regime in The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics murdered upwards of 200 million human beings, the majority for their religious beliefs.(BLACK BOOK OF COMMUNISM) by Stephane Courtois.

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[3sigma]

Then from whence came the slaughter of millions upon millions of Christians, Jews, Muslims, and other deists/theists/spiritual seekers in the last century by atheists the minute they came to power in places such as U.S.S.R., Peoples' Republic of China, etc.?

It comes from the need by totalitarian Communist regimes to suppress dissent and any institution (such as the church) that could command allegiance from the populace other than the State. What is your problem? Why can’t you see that there is a difference between Communism and atheism? Communism is the political ideology driving these regimes, not atheism. Your continued attempts to equate the two is bordering on dishonesty.

The continued brazen attempt by atheists to point accusing fingers at believers and call them "intolerant" boggles the mind when one looks at the horrendous crimes against humanity perpetrated by atheists against believers as quickly as the opportunity presented itself.

There you go again. It isn’t atheism that motivates totalitarian regimes; it is the desire for power. Where is the atheist Bible exhorting non-believers to shun or kill believers the way the Bible and Qur’an do? Where are the atheist churches teaching people to be intolerant the way the Westboro Baptists do? It is religion that teaches intolerance, not atheism.

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.

Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

These passages clearly and directly urge believers to kill non-believers. Can you show me any similar passages from the atheist bible urging atheists to kill believers?

 

[ephraimanesti]

It comes from the need by totalitarian Communist regimes to suppress dissent and any institution (such as the church) that could command allegiance from the populace other than the State. What is your problem? Why can’t you see that there is a difference between Communism and atheism? Communism is the political ideology driving these regimes, not atheism. Your continued attempts to equate the two is bordering on dishonesty.

Are you trying to aver and persuade that the fact that all the "inventors" of the communist "political ideology"--Marx, Trotsky, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, et al--were rabid--in both senses of the word--atheists is somehow irrelevant to the governments/societies they built and what these governments/societies subsequently did while acting upon their beliefs? What is "my problem" indeed!

Without an atheistic belief system--equating human beings with animals to be used and expended for the good of the herd--none of the horrors of atheistic communism (or rather socialism) would have even remotely been possible.

Under God, and bound together by His Love, the early Church lived a communal existence--as described in the Book of Acts, chapter 4:32-37 and elsewhere--and could, i suppose, be labeled "communistic" should one choose to do so. But remove God from the equation, as the Russian/Chinese/Vietnamese/Cambodian/etc. atheistic governments did and unspeakable horrors were perpetrated in the name and to the glory of godlessness and nihlism.

How blind are they who refuse to learn from the past!

There you go again. It isn’t atheism that motivates totalitarian regimes; it is the desire for power. Where is the atheist Bible exhorting non-believers to shun or kill believers the way the Bible and Qur’an do? Where are the atheist churches teaching people to be intolerant the way the Westboro Baptists do? It is religion that teaches intolerance, not atheism.

To avoid sounding harsh or critical, let me just say that it appears to me that you are a great fan of George Orwell and his Newspeak techniques of bending reality.

These passages clearly and directly urge believers to kill non-believers. Can you show me any similar passages from the atheist bible urging atheists to kill believers?

i must confess to a lack of familiarity with "the atheist bible"--or are you pulling my leg? Sounds like a Newspeak oxymoron to me.

Be that as it may, "ignorance is NOT knowledge", and if you will take the time to read the writings of the atheist super-stars of the last century--Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.--and peruse the documents of the governments they organized based upon their atheistic worldview--i am sure you will find--although probably not admit to finding--a wealth of material urging atheists to identify, report, and participate in the destruction of believers "for the good of the State". How do you think the gulags were kept full and the 20 million in the Soviet Union alone "disappeared?" Coincidences? Accidents? Misunderstandings? No, the inevitable poisonous fruit of godless atheistic thinking--the end result of the atheists' Creed that "the fittest will survive" as taken from the atheists' messiah Charles Darwin's famous book, whose whole title is rarely used for obvious reasons: The Origin of Species By Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle For Life. As history teaches, Christians and other deists/theists/spiritual seekers are not to be counted among the "Favored Races" when atheists are running the show.

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[Maranatha27]

Boldface text: Sigma
How so? It was Christians behaving according to their beliefs who enacted the blasphemy laws and who put the blasphemers to death. It was Christians behaving according to their beliefs who instigated the various Inquisitions and who burned witches. Christians impose their beliefs and their will on others when they have the power to do so. I’m asking why Christians behave according to their beliefs in this way. Why do Christians and other religious believers so harshly impose their beliefs and their will on others when they have the power to do so?

That is a fact of history and there is no denying the fact that MEN did terrible things in the name of Christ. The Bible in no way condones man in this age of grace to kill a witch or an enemy of the Gospel. Now you as an atheist will try to bring up O.T. verses that indeed command that such things were to be done. Context is very important, this was a direct comand to the nation of Israel and neccesary to keep the people undefiled. The law was until Christ, the Bible is crystal clear about that fact and the destruction of the temple in 70A.D. confirms Gods rejection of the law. The Law was specifically for the Jewish people and not the gentiles. Now stating that fact, those men acted ignorantly and against the revealed will of God, just as the Jews contine till this day.


I think the more plausible explanation is that Christians no longer have the necessary political power to impose their beliefs and their will on others in such extreme ways. Western governments have become increasingly secular over time. The knowledge that has increased is knowledge of the natural world and how it works. It is this reduction of ignorance and superstition in today’s Western societies that more plausibly explains the repeals of draconian laws and penalties for perceived religious offences. However, we can see that in other countries today where religious believers do have the necessary power and where ignorance and superstition are rife among the general population, this harmful behaviour still occurs. There are countries today where there are religious laws and religious police and where people are still put to death for blasphemy and apostasy.

You correct to say that we as a human race have a better understanding of the natural world, for so it is. But everything has had an unvieling to some degree in the last couple hundred years, and the Word of God is no exception.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

In the past 500 years of history the most beloved men in Christ have been confounded with two major prophetical books in Scripture, Daniel and Revelation. Though in the last 150 years or so, men filled with the Holy Spirit began to comprehend the Divine revelation. With the establishment of the nation of Israel in 1948 a major piece of the puzzle was laid masterfully and sets the stage for a complete fullfilment of the prophetic word. The unification of Europe and the alignment of Russia with the Arab nations was all prophesied, as well as the future global economy. As I stated before, Athiest are not the ones suffering persection, but the christians and the Jews. As my Lord said, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

I doubt that this will ever happen. However, I do hope that at some point in the future, most people will have enough education and enough sense to see religious belief as a harmful superstition and relinquish it.

People mocked at the thought of Israel ever becoming a nation again too

 

[3sigma]

Without an atheistic belief system--equating human beings with animals to be used and expended for the good of the herd--none of the horrors of atheistic communism (or rather socialism) would have even remotely been possible.

Atheism is not a belief system; it is a lack of belief. There is no atheist doctrine of violence and intolerance as there is in Christianity and Islam. I’m an atheist so can you show me something to support your claim that I personally have a belief system that teaches that humans can be expended for the good of the herd?

But remove God from the equation, as the Russian/Chinese/Vietnamese/Cambodian/etc. atheistic governments did and unspeakable horrors were perpetrated in the name and to the glory of godlessness and nihlism.

The Communist purges were not perpetrated in the name of godlessness, they were committed to maintain political power and to further Communism, a political ideology. Read this. Can you show me anything to support your claim that unspeakable horrors were perpetrated in the name of godlessness?

To avoid sounding harsh or critical, let me just say that it appears to me that you are a great fan of George Orwell and his Newspeak techniques of bending reality.

I didn’t bend reality. I gave you direct quotes from the Bible and the Qur’an that urge religious believers to kill non-believers. The doctrines of Christianity and Islam are riddled with intolerance and violence towards non-believers. Do you deny the existence of those passages in the Bible?

i must confess to a lack of familiarity with "the atheist bible”…

My point exactly—there isn’t one. There is no atheist doctrine of violence and intolerance towards religious believers, but such doctrine is there in abundance in Christianity and Islam. Just look at these examples of intolerance in the Bible and Qur’an. Can you show me any atheist doctrine similarly urging atheists to kill believers?

No, the inevitable poisonous fruit of godless atheistic thinking--the end result of the atheists' Creed that "the fittest will survive" as taken from the atheists' messiah Charles Darwin's famous book, whose whole title is rarely used for obvious reasons: The Origin of Species By Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle For Life. As history teaches, Christians and other deists/theists/spiritual seekers are not to be counted among the "Favored Races" when atheists are running the show.

There is no such thing as an atheist “messiah”. Atheists don’t believe in any gods. I don’t remember reading anything in the Origin of Species urging atheists to kill religious believers. Can you show me the passage that urges atheists to kill religious believers the same way those passages in the Bible urge Christians to kill non-believers?

 

[3sigma]

That is a fact of history and there is no denying the fact that MEN did terrible things in the name of Christ.

No, not just any men; these were Christians who did terrible things in the name of Christ because Christian doctrine urges Christians to be intolerant and violent towards non-believers. Do you deny that they were self-proclaimed Christians?

The Bible in no way condones man in this age of grace to kill a witch or an enemy of the Gospel. Now you as an atheist will try to bring up O.T. verses that indeed command that such things were to be done. Context is very important, this was a direct comand to the nation of Israel and neccesary to keep the people undefiled. The law was until Christ, the Bible is crystal clear about that fact and the destruction of the temple in 70A.D. confirms Gods rejection of the law. The Law was specifically for the Jewish people and not the gentiles. Now stating that fact, those men acted ignorantly and against the revealed will of God, just as the Jews contine till this day.

Unfortunately, there are still plenty of Christians today who pay no attention to the fine distinctions you are making. There are still Christians today who, due to their Christian beliefs, try to force the teaching of creationism in public school science classes; there are still Christians today who, due to their Christian beliefs, are intolerant and violent towards homosexuals; and there are still Christians right here in this thread who, due to their Christian beliefs, think people should be punished for blasphemy. Do you deny that such self-proclaimed Christians exist?

Though in the last 150 years or so, men filled with the Holy Spirit began to comprehend the Divine revelation.

In the past 150 years or so, men filled with the “Holy Spirit” have opposed the theory of evolution and sought to have creationism taught in public school science classes. In the past 150 years or so, men filled with the “Holy Spirit” have been intolerant and violent towards homosexuals. Do you deny that such self-proclaimed Christians exist?