Why do people try to obey the law when it's not possible

[bugkiller]

Great question.

And the man that committeth adultery with another[bless and do not curse]man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with[bless and do not curse]his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress[bless and do not curse]shall surely be put to death. (Lev 20:10)

If a man be found lying with a woman married to an[bless and do not curse]husband, then they shall both of them die, both the[bless and do not curse]man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. (Deu 22:22)

That should about do it eh? So why didn't Messiah condone the stoning?
Because the Scribes and Pharisees did not follow the due process according to the Torah relating to condemning someone to death!


At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil
away from among you. (Deu 17:6-7)

“You judge according to the flesh, I judge no one. “But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me. “And in your Torah also, it has been written that the witness of two men is true. (Joh 8:15-17)

According to the Torah, there must be at least two witnesses who have seen with their own eyes the person(s) in the act of a sin worthy of death, and if there is not, one cannot according to the Torah, execute a death sentence.

And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. (Joh 8:1-6)

John's account of the story of the woman clearly shows the rule of righteous judgment and execution according to Torah wasn't being met. According to the Scribes' and Pharisees' account, this woman had been caught in the act, so where were the witnesses who caught her?

Their hands, not Yeshua's were supposed to throw the first stone. Oh, and that being said; Where was the man she was sinning with? Because he was supposed to be executed too!

Obviously neither the man nor the witnesses were there, and because of this, the Pharisees knew that if Yeshua had condemned her, He would have broken the very Torah that He, the Creator of Life, wrote to begin with. Knowing their twisted wicked scheming hearts, He first tried to ignore them, but they persisted in engaging Him, so His final words dissolved the whole thing.

I disagree based on Jer 31:31-34 and LK 16:16 alone. Yes I have more.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Everyone sins.
Galatians chapter 4 verse 21-31
Tell me you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? For it is written that Abraham had two sons,one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written: "be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband. Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does the Scripture sat? Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
You might want to read Romans chapter 2 it talks about what your doing since we all know no one obeys the law nor can they.

Yes and even the OT Scripture backs you up on this point. See Ps 14:3 and 53:3.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Andy Stanley, R.C Sproul and D.L. Moody all have sermons available upholding the Law of God as we see in 1Cor 7:19 "What matters is keeping the Commandments of God".

The title of this thread is interesting - according to Paul in Romans 8:5-8 there is only one group that is faced with this problem every day.

Of course the Romans 6 chapter has the full explanation of the OP.

in Christ,

Bob

Ah yes and the Spirit is not the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

But AFTER "faith comes" to that individual --

THEN "What matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

AFTER faith comes then -
"It is NOT the hearers of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL be justiFIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16

AFTER faith comes then -

the saints are those "who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.

AFTER faith comes then -

"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15.

AFTER faith comes then - we have Romans 6. (too much to quote the entire chapter here)

AFTER faith comes - then we have Rom 3:31
"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith! God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God"

AFTER faith Comes we have the Hebrews 8 "New Covenant" promise of the "LAW of God written on their minds and on their heart" (Jer 31:31-33 quoted in Hebrews 8)

This is the FULL Gospel message that does not leave the reader at the POV of the lost in Romans 8:5-8 but takes them to the point "AFTER faith Comes".

in Christ,

Bob

No sir. The law does not apply to the righteous - I Tim 1:8-10.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Would you define - according to the flesh

JLB

How about Gal 5:19-21? These same basic things are listed in I Tim 1:9-10.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Paul defines it very well in Romans 8:5-17 by contrasting those who "belong to God" vs those who "have their minds set on the flesh" and are "hostile toward God" - as I am sure we would all agree.

Rom 8
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.




But IF the Spirit of God dwells in you – the “we are under obligation NOT to the flesh but to the Spirit”

“IF you are living according to the Flesh you WILL die”

Rom 8
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "" Abba! Father!''
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him

This is interesting because you also push obligation to the law. So which is it? The law or the Spirit? Gal 5:18 states -

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

It does not say the Spirit leads us to or by the law. We have been delivered from the law according to Rom 7:6.

I Tim 1:9 states -

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

It does not state that the righteous are obligated to the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

In James 2 - James lists a lot more laws than "Love your neighbor".

There are over 1000 commands given in the NT alone.

Paul said "Do we then make void the law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God".

In Eph 6 Paul refers to the binding 5th commandment as still in force saying that "it is the FIRST commandment with a promise" - which is only true in that "unit of Ten".

No wonder than that D.L. Moody, R.C Sproul, Andy Stanley and even the RCC admit to the continued binding authority of the Ten Commandments for Christians today.

Before the Cross - Christ said "IF you Love Me KEEP My commandments" which is also a quote from the Ten Commandments. John 14:!5

The saints of God are those who "Keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.

in Christ,

Bob

Please define the commandments John talks about quoting Jesus here -

If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in Hs love. John 15:10

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

or else they are not in the one group in Romans 8:6-8 that Paul says "Does not submit to the law of God neither indeed CAN they".

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


Perhaps they are those who read 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".

Or maybe they just simply sat down and read Romans chapter 6 and believed it.

It is hard to tell which reason it would be --

in Christ,

Bob

How does one keep or manifest the law? Which one of the commandments found in the law are not about the regulating the behaviour of the flesh? Might I suggest Deut 28-30 which refers only to the flesh in terms ob blessing and curses regarding the flesh (body).

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The Law of God?

The Commandments?

The Law Enoch kept?

The Law Job kept?

or The Law that Abraham kept?

And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

To me, this scripture speaks more of relationship than keeping some rules that say - don't do this, don't touch that, don't eat this, observe this day...

Walking with God and obeying His voice.

Jesus said it this way -

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

The heart cry of the Lord is -

Abide in Me...
Come to Me...
Walk with Me...

Of course, you can't live a sinful lifestyle and expect to walk with God.

However, it comes down to the motive of the heart.

Is your motive to walk with Him, and to Love Him.

Or, keep some rules so you will be good enough to go to heaven?

If it's the later, you have missed the point!


JLB

Which laws are these seeing that the law came 430 years after Abraham. There is not one single mention of the sabbath prior to the departure from Egypt. Abraham lied and got his socks blessed off for it. Why does the law not work that way for me? Did Abraham lie for the purpose of gaining wealth?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

But AFTER "faith comes" to that individual --

THEN "What matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

AFTER faith comes then -
"It is NOT the hearers of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL be justiFIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16

AFTER faith comes then -

the saints are those "who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.

AFTER faith comes then -

"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15.

AFTER faith comes then - we have Romans 6. (too much to quote the entire chapter here)

AFTER faith comes - then we have Rom 3:31
"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith! God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God"

AFTER faith Comes we have the Hebrews 8 "New Covenant" promise of the "LAW of God written on their minds and on their heart" (Jer 31:31-33 quoted in Hebrews 8)

This is the FULL Gospel message that does not leave the reader at the POV of the lost in Romans 8:5-8 but takes them to the point "AFTER faith Comes".

No sir.

Ok - well not everyone was going to agree with those New Testament texts listed above - as well as that reference to the New Covenant.

To each his own.

The law does not apply to the righteous - I Tim 1:8-10.

bugkiller

Ok - so that is the text that pretty much disputes all of scripture?

Oh no wait - isn't the letter of first Timothy where we find - that the Law is made for those who commit sin? 1Tim 1:8-10. Why it sure is what we find there - a long list of commandment-breaking sins.

[FONT=&quot] 8But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 11according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. [/FONT]



Women are to be known for their "Good works" - 1Tim 2:10

Leaders in the church - elders - are to be "blameless" 1Tim 3:2

"Those that sin - rebuke in the presence of all" 1Tim 5:20 (Where there is no Law - there is no sin. Romans 4)

Yes - I believe that is 1Timothy all right. Turns out that letter fully agrees with the rest of scripture. (not really that surprising when we stop to think about it).

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I guess the reason someone try's to obey the law is because they have no faith, .

or else they are not in the one group in Romans 8:6-8 that Paul says " Does not submit to the law of God neither indeed CAN they".

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


Perhaps they are those who read 1Cor 7:19 " what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".

Or maybe they just simply sat down and read Romans chapter 6 and believed it.

It is hard to tell which reason it would be --

Which laws are these seeing that

the law came 430 years after Abraham.

The law was given in written form at Sinai.

But long before Sinai we have this.

God said He blessed Abraham "because"

Genesis 26:5 [FONT=&quot]Gen 26
5 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My Commandments, My Statutes and My Laws[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot]''[/FONT]

Genesis 18:20 - the "sin of Sodom and Gomorrah" was great -- so great in fact that they had to be destroyed.

Romans 4 says clearly " where there is no law there is no sin" Romans 5:13, Romans 4:15

There is not one single mention of the sabbath prior to the departure from Egypt.

Except for Genesis 2:1-3 --
and the Genesis 1:2-2:3 summary given in Exodus 20:8,11.

Ex 20
[FONT=&quot]8 ""[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Remember the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot],[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to keep it holy.
...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
11 "" [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For in six days[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the LORD [/FONT][FONT=&quot]made [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the[/FONT][FONT=&quot]heavens and the earth, the sea and all[/FONT][FONT=&quot]that is in them, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and rested[/FONT][FONT=&quot] on [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]therefore the LORD blessed[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and[/FONT][FONT=&quot] made it holy[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]


Genesis 2 -
[FONT=&quot]1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He [/FONT][FONT=&quot]rested on the seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] from all His work which He had done.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
3 Then [/FONT][FONT=&quot]God blessed the seventh day and sanctified[/FONT][FONT=&quot] it, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]because [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in it He rested[/FONT][FONT=&quot] from all His work which God had [/FONT][FONT=&quot]created and made[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Andy Stanley, R.C Sproul and D.L. Moody all have sermons available upholding the Law of God as we see in 1Cor 7:19 "What matters is keeping the Commandments of God".

The title of this thread is interesting - according to Paul in Romans 8:5-8 there is only one group that is faced with this problem every day.

Of course the Romans 6 chapter has the full explanation of the OP.

Ah yes and the Spirit is not the law.

bugkiller

God the Holy Spirit - AUTHORED the Law of God.

"All scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is profitable for doctrine" 2Tim 3:16.

"Holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from GOD" 2Peter 1:21.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.

Hebrews 7 is speaking specifically about the law governing the priests - directing things like -- who can be a priest and who cannot as well as describing all the duties of an earthly priest in an earthly tabernacle.

John chapter 15 verse 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

Matthew 22 Jesus said pre-cross there are in fact TWO Commandments that are "the greatest"
-- Deut 6:5 - "Love God with all of your heart"
- and Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself".

James 2 - says these commandments continue on from that pre-cross age just as James 2 says the Ten Commandments continue on.

Time after time - the NT writers remind us that the COMMANDMENTS are in fact the "Commandments of God" -- the Ten Commandments.

Eph 6:2 the fifth commandment being "The FIRST commandment WITH a promise" -- only true INSIDE that Unit of TEN.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Ephesians chapter 2 verses 14-19
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two. thus making peace and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, .

IN Hebrews 7 we have the end of the Levitical Priesthood.

In Hebrews 10 the end of the animal sacrifices that take place in the Temple and are done by the Priests.

Hebrews 8:1-6 the Heavenly Temple and the High Priesthood of Christ replace those earthly types.

Thus in Ephesians 2 - the dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles that existed in the Temple, via the Priesthood and the rituals and ceremonies - is ended.

But there never was a distinction or wall between Jew and Gentile when it came to "Do no Murder".

When the people of Sodom and Gomorrah broke the moral law of God - they were destroyed.

God said in Leviticus 18 that if the people of God commit those same sins - they too will be destroyed.

No dividing wall between Jew and Gentile when it came to moral Law and sin.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I guess the reason someone try's to obey the law is because they have no faith, .

or else they are not in the one group in Romans 8:6-8 that Paul says "Does not submit to the law of God neither indeed CAN they".

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


Perhaps they are those who read 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".

Or maybe they just simply sat down and read Romans chapter 6 and believed it.

It is hard to tell which reason it would be --

The Law of God?

The Commandments?

1Cor 7:19 "What matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".

You know - the Ten commandments.

What Commandment does Paul used to illustrate the term "Law" and "Commandment" in Romans 7. (It is one of the ten)

The same goes for James - in James 2.

The same goes for Ephesians 6:2.

There is apparently no confusion at all on this point for NT writers.

No wonder men like D.L Moody, Andy Stanley and R.C Sproul all affirm the Bible teaching on the continued role of the Ten Commandments for NT saints.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7678827-21/#post61195921

in Christ,

Bob

 

[disciple1]

Romans chapter 10 verse 17 consequently faith comes from hearing the message and the message is heard in the word of Christ.
John chapter 8 verse 31,32 To the Jews who believed him Jesus said if you hold to my teaching you are really my disciples and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Titus chapter 3 verse 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
So I'm going to avoid arguing about the law.
And no human did keep it except Christ.
If you disagree you might want to read Romans chapter 2

 

[woodpecker]

we are told to try and obey the Law. Jesus says if you follow me, you must obey my commands. what commands...to love God with all my heart and mind, and love my neighbor as myself.

We follow these two commands, we fulfill all the 10 commandments

does works save us of from damnation, no, Gods grace does this. We have faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross, what is faith,... trusting in God, and following His commands.

Faith and works, are one and the same, if there are no works, there is not faith.

 

[Alive_Again]

The working of grace always exceeds the requirements of the written law. Jesus always took it to the next level and by the Spirit of God, we are capable of fulfilling the intent of the law.

If we are led by the Spirit, we are not under law. It always comes down to whether or not we will yield to the Spirit or to the flesh. Works of the flesh are judged by the law. Fortunately, God gives us an avenue of cleansing and forgiveness, so when we do works judgeable by the law, we don't have to be judged by the law.

 

[someguy14]

Why do people try to obey the law when it's not possible

All things are possible with God, who disagrees with this, except those against God Himself.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

All mankind is a fail since the serpent. Only God is good. Choice, choose God or perish.
God is the perfect, deny thyself fully, forget about self, it already failed, it is all about God now. God is the only perfect.

 

[someguy14]

Paul says to avoid strivings about the law. Titus 3:9
Only God is perfect, therefore only Gods law is perfect and can only be obeyed fully with God Himself since He is perfectly perfect.