Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

[stuart lawrence]

Bold unwavering honesty in dealing with the Word of God.

Though I will tell you what the term means to me.
It means you have been forever changed. No longer can you happily sin without conscience. The holy spirit has entered your life and placed the law God desires you to keep in your most inward parts. Whereas before you had this experience you could live according to your own moral standards, now you know the standard set by Gods law within you.
Try as you might, you cannot reach that standard. If you look therefore to the law within you you must despair, you must be consumed by guilt and fear for you will always fall short of its requirements. You need another way, a way to have peace, for there is no peace in trying to follow the set standard.
Thankfully there is a way to have peace, the second half of the covenant.
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.

When we have both parts of the covenant, and follow after the holy spirit, not the letter that kills we better uphold the standard we in our hearts want to see reflected in us
The yeast of the Pharisees was hypocrisy. For they did not practice what they preached/demanded of others.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Can a person attain to heaven if they have unrepented sin in their life?

A born again christian has been supernaturally changed by the holy spirit who has entered their life. He is their seal of approval for heaven.
The christian has chosen a life with Christ as their saviour, they have chosen to follow him, not the world. He is their master. But they will not achieve sinless perfection while in the body of flesh:

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin.
But now a righteousness/ justification APART from law has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness/justification from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe
Rom3:20-22

Sin is the transgression of the law( or failing to observe the law) 1 john 3:4

This is the new covenant at its core, the foundation on which it is built:

I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

The answer to the question is in the above scriptures.

 

[classifieddossier]

Can a leopard change it's spots? No it cannot and we cannot refuse the temptations of Satan. No man, woman, or child can refuse Satan's lies. What are his lies? Read Matthew 4 extremely carefully.

Therefore, what is sinful man to do? First by seeing the law written we must accept our extremely hopeless state we are in. We are sinners destined for eternal damnation. Secondly, we fall on our knees and cling to the cross of Jesus. We confess our sins. All of them. Our motives and desires are not in accordance with Christ's character. Thirdly, we must beg God to create in us a new creature; a new heart and new mind. Pray continually. Fast periodically. When Satan's temptations come, and they will come, cling to the Cross and beg for assistance in prayer.

Then and only then will we begin to follow God's law by removing self and begging God to keep our lives pure for Him.

That's what I've learned as an SDA.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Though I will tell you what the term means to me.

It means you have been forever changed. No longer can you happily sin without conscience. The holy spirit has entered your life and placed the law God desires you to keep in your most inward parts. Whereas before you had this experience you could live according to your own moral standards, now you know the standard set by Gods law within you.

Try as you might, you cannot reach that standard. If you look therefore to the law within you you must despair, you must be consumed by guilt and fear for you will always fall short of its requirements. You need another way, a way to have peace, for there is no peace in trying to follow the set standard.

Thankfully there is a way to have peace, the second half of the covenant.

Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.


When we have both parts of the covenant, and follow after the holy spirit, not the letter that kills we better uphold the standard we in our hearts want to see reflected in us

The yeast of the Pharisees was hypocrisy. For they did not practice what they preached/demanded of others.

Yeah. How often or rather how seldom must God not have listened to the same privatized <meaning>. You are happy with your meaning that you gave to the Divine mystery of being born again. My understanding or lack of understanding makes no difference, thank God; He knows who are his, and we can rest assured He knows every one of His Own by name, Children, the Children of God.


Though God forgives and justifies sinners one by one, He redeemed and saved and planted one People of God on the other side of the Red Sea, the one "Body of Christ's Own". That is the rebirth, for "flesh and blood cannot enter (or make up or constitute) the Kingdom of God". "Christ is given as Head", not to one at a time, but, "TO THE CHURCH ... not only in this world, but also / especially in that which is to come", which forevermore, shall stay. "The Kingdom of God is in you" the Body, of True Believers, and "the riches of the glory of Christ's Inheritance ... is in the saints".

That, I will tell you, to me is the meaning of the Divine Mystery of to be born again into the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of the Father and of God's dear Son, the Kingdom of Light.

To the Church of Christ belongs to "Not let yourselves in eating and drinking be judged by anyone or with regard to eating and drinking of Feast of Sabbaths of CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE, be condemned!"


…which in the final analysis exclusively was what you wanted to tell me and everyone else, Stuart Lawrence, the rebirth of a <<born again christian (who) has been supernaturally changed by the holy spirit who has entered (his) life>>, is. Just, a condemnation of anyone Sabbaths’ Feasting eating and drinking of Christ the Nourishment ministered. Which is why you closed your animadversion the way you did, with, <<The yeast of the Pharisees was hypocrisy. For they did not practice what they preached/demanded of others>>.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin.
But now a righteousness/ justification APART from law has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness/justification from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe
Rom3:20-22

NOT "...a righteousness/ justification APART from law..."! It is written, "...a righteousness/ justification apart from _the_ law..."! It's NOT "...a righteousness/ justification apart from LAW..." as in a righteousness / justification CONTRARY the Law, AGAINST the Law of God!

But Christ's is the Righteousness of GOD, NOT denying or defying the LAW of God but confirming and affirming the Law of God of Ten Commandments or whichever other Law of God, sacrificial ceremonial Law, free-will offering Law and whatever more of God's Laws in the Scriptures!

 

[stuart lawrence]

NOT "...a righteousness/ justification APART from law..."! It is written, "...a righteousness/ justification apart from _the_ law..."! It's not NOT "...a righteousness/ justification apart from LAW..." as in a righteousness / justification CONTRARY The Law, AGAINST the Law of God!

But Christ's is the Righteousness of GOD, NOT denying or defying the LAW of God but confirming and affirming the Law of God of Ten Commandments or whichever other Law of God, sacrificial ceremonial Law, free-will offering Law and whatever more of God's Laws in the Scriptures!

NIV states apart from law KJV without the law

You are not a happy person are you. You could be, if you stopped looking to the written code

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Can a person attain to heaven if they have unrepented sin in their life?

A born again christian has been supernaturally changed by the holy spirit who has entered their life. He is their seal of approval for heaven.
The christian has chosen a life with Christ as their saviour, they have chosen to follow him, not the world. He is their master. But they will not achieve sinless perfection while in the body of flesh:

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin.
But now a righteousness/ justification APART from law has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness/justification from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe
Rom3:20-22

Sin is the transgression of the law( or failing to observe the law) 1 john 3:4

This is the new covenant at its core, the foundation on which it is built:

I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

The answer to the question is in the above scriptures.

You do not get enough of your subtle <questions>, innuendos, accusations and condemnations ... <<Can a person attain to heaven if they have unrepented sin in their life?>>--the <<unrepented sin>>, <<by observing the law>> of the Seventh Day Sabbath!

 

[stuart lawrence]

You do not get enough of your subtle innuendos, accusations and condemnations ... <<Can a person attain to heaven if they have unrepented sin in their life?>>--the <<unrepented sin>>, <<by observing the law>> of the Seventh Day Sabbath!

Think id better put you on ignore

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

NIV states apart from law KJV without the law

You are not a happy person are you. You could be, if you stopped looking to the written code

Romans 3:21, "Now without law the righteousness of God is manifested being witnessed by THE law" [marturoumeneh hupo TOU nomou kai TOHN prophehtohn] … looking to the written code …

...I was WRONG!!!!

I APOLOGISE. I constantly need to be taught my sinfulness and place. Thank you, my God and Saviour for both your Love and Law. They are so very much the same. Praise your Name, o my Lord Jesus.

I'm sorry, Stuart Lawrence. Looking to the written code must needs drive us closer to the Lord Jesus, who draws us to the foot of his cross through it, where the Father reveals his Son to us in his glorious suffering unto the Resurrection of Life into the Kingdom of the Prince of Peace. He shall never forsake us, least in the moment of visitation in his wrath.

 

[stuart lawrence]

..

 

[BobRyan]

What then was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgression UNTIL the seed to whom the promise referred had come.
The law was put into effect by a mediator. A mediator however does not just represent one party, but God is one.
Is the law therefore opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law could be given to impart life then righteousness would certainly have come through the law
But the scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner to sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
Before this faith came we were held prisoner by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
So the law was put I charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
Now That faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law
Gal3:21-25

The law is not based on faith
Gal3:12

Your partial quote - tends to distort the meaning. Even so the fact that the "scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner in sin" means that the scripture still lives, sin is still defined, still exists and that it is still "transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4 -- still.

It means it is STILL wrong to "take God's name in vain" -- like it or not.

Romans 3:19-21 the same law that binds all the world - and "every mouth closed" - that defines what sin is... is that same law that we by faith establish at the end of that chapter "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31 That law that defines sin and binds the entire world -- is that which is written on the heart and mind under the NEW Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-33 under the NEW Covenant "the LAW is written on the heart and mind"

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 3:21, "Now without law the righteousness of God is manifested being witnessed by THE law" [marturoumeneh hupo TOU nomou kai TOHN prophehtohn] … looking to the written code …

...I was WRONG!!!!

I APOLOGISE. I constantly need to be taught my sinfulness and place. Thank you, my God and Saviour for both your Love and Law. They are so very much the same. Praise your Name, o my Lord Jesus.

I'm sorry, Stuart Lawrence. Looking to the written code must needs drive us closer to the Lord Jesus, who draws us to the foot of his cross through it, where the Father reveals his Son to us in his glorious suffering unto the Resurrection of Life into the Kingdom of the Prince of Peace. He shall never forsake us, least in the moment of visitation in his wrath.

No wonder Jesus said that "he who minimizes the least of God's commandments and so teaches others will be called least in the Kingdom of heaven" in Matt 5. He was being serious. I was not just making up some sort of pre-cross "bad idea". waiting until after the cross to have some "good ideas" as some have imagined.

1 John 5:2-3 says it best.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Ex 20:6 "Love Me AND keep My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND the faith of JESUS"

God is not at war with His WORD.
God is not at war with His Commandments.
Neither are His children.

But in Romans 8:4-9 God identifies a group of people that ARE at war with God and His Commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

...but "by the circumcision of CHRIST".
"Ye are COMPLETE (perfect spotless without blemish or wound or scar) IN HIM ... in whom ye are circumcised with the circumcision MADE WITHOUT HANDS in putting off the body of sins of the flesh by the circumcision (wound) of CHRIST. ... And you, being dead in your sins and uncircumcision (woundless pride) of your flesh, hath He quickened TOGETHER WITH HIM" who triumphed "in it ... by the circumcision (wounds) of CHRIST".

True - the Gospel "Works".

The whole debate in the book of Job - Job 1 and 2 points out is over Satan's claim that the Gospel does NOT WorK!. That Job is merely a "bribed sinner - still" and not "changed into a saint" .

But Christ's argument is the gospel DOES work and the GOOD tree produced good fruit! That Job behaves differently because he is a different person a "NEW Creation" 2 Cor 5 "IF anyone is in Christ Jesus HE is a NEW Creation".

Satan's implied argument in Job 1 and 2 appears to be that he too could be a "well-bribed-sinner" if God would simply offer him that same bribe as he imagines Job has gotten. A "better behaved well-bribed sinner, that is sinner all the same" is how Satan characterizes Job.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Your partial quote - tends to distort the meaning. Even so the fact that the "scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner in sin" means that the scripture still lives, sin is still defined, still exists and that it is still "transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4 -- still.

It means it is STILL wrong to "take God's name in vain" -- like it or not.

Jeremiah 31:31-33 under the NEW Covenant "the LAW is written on the heart and mind"

I'm glad you said the law is written on the heart and mind and sin is the transgression of the law, well done.
And of course through the law we become conscious if sin.
So, what do we know from this. A christian must be conscious they sin when they break the law placed within them.
Therefore, as the SDA accept as Christians those who have no heartfelt conviction they commit sin by failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath they have no choice but to acknowledge that law as written is NOT written on the mind and placed in the heart of the believer!
It then becomes a disputable matter as Paul of course says it is. You are entitled to view one day more sacred/ holy than another or consider every day alike.

Well done SDA for proving what the rest of us already knew!!!!
It was the OC, not the new one where they had to observe a set saturday sabbath

 

[stuart lawrence]

No wonder Jesus said that "he who minimizes the least of God's commandments and so teaches others will be called least in the Kingdom of heaven" in Matt 5. He was being serious. I was not just making up some sort of pre-cross "bad idea". waiting until after the cross to have some "good ideas" as some have imagined.

1 John 5:2-3 says it best.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Ex 20:6 "Love Me AND keep My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND the faith of JESUS"

God is not at war with His WORD.
God is not at war with His Commandments.
Neither are His children.

But in Romans 8:4-9 God identifies a group of people that ARE at war with God and His Commandments.

Glad you quoted John as to loving God is keeping his commandments!
Lets look specifically at the commandments John refers to:

Dear friends if our hearts do not condemn us we can have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask because we obey his COMMANDS/ ments and do what pleases him . 1 john 3:22

WHICH COMMANDS???

Next verse:
And this is his command. To believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and to love one another as he commanded us.

John lived under the NC not the old one.

Now be a good chap. From Acts ch1 onwards( when the new covenant was in operation) quote me as many verses as you can that specifically state the words:

You must obey the TEN commandments to show your love for God.

How many can you write out?

 

[klutedavid]

Christianity Today could not list what you provide because you include categories that are not one single form of Church government - no single body as the organization's managing financial and policy administrator. The RCC has it, the SDA church has it - the Anglican church has it... the Eastern Orthodox etc and all of them are listed by Christianity Today ...

But there is no such thing as one organizing administration managing finances and policy for entire group in the case of your "Protestantism" and your "Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism" - it is a "grouping" of different denominations not one church.

Hello Bob.

I thought the SDA split into the, SDA and CAC.

 

[stuart lawrence]

No wonder Jesus said that "he who minimizes the least of God's commandments and so teaches others will be called least in the Kingdom of heaven" in Matt 5. He was being serious. I was not just making up some sort of pre-cross "bad idea". waiting until after the cross to have some "good ideas" as some have imagined.

1 John 5:2-3 says it best.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Ex 20:6 "Love Me AND keep My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND the faith of JESUS"

God is not at war with His WORD.
God is not at war with His Commandments.
Neither are His children.

But in Romans 8:4-9 God identifies a group of people that ARE at war with God and His Commandments.

BTW
You misquoted Jesus( unintentionally I am sure)

Anyone who breaks the least of THESE commandments( the ones Christ is teaching) and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ gave us the true meaning of Gods commandments.
How do we fulfill the law of Christ?
By looking to the written code/ literal letter of them?

Carry each others burdens, and so FULFILL the law of Christ Gal6:2

So Paul states as john does.
Love others.

Jesus said the christians righteousness MUST exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees.
What did they think their righteousness was?

You can hear it now cant you:

You must obey the Ten Commandments'. You must obey the Ten Commandments.

Of course Jesus said they were hypocrites for they did not practice what they preached.

Your post is a perfect illustration of your following after the OC at heart, not the new one.

I do wish you understood rom3:31 I truly do.
You have to die to a justification of obeying the law, you have to know you are released from the law and serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code.
None of this you understand or follow.
All you keep stating is:

You must obey the TC etc

 

[stuart lawrence]

Then Jesus said to the crowds:
The teachers of the law and Pharisees sit in Moses seat.
So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
They tie up heavy loads and put them on mens shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them
Matt23:1-4

Much like people who insist you must obey the letter that kills/ the ministry of condemnation and death to show you love God and therefore may attain heaven

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

I thought the SDA split into the, SDA and CAC.

What is a CAC??

And how is it that even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholars agree with the Bible and with me -- that the TEN Commandments are still valid for Christians - yet you do not?

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 3:21, "Now without law the righteousness of God is manifested being witnessed by THE law" [marturoumeneh hupo TOU nomou kai TOHN prophehtohn] … looking to the written code …

...I was WRONG!!!!

I APOLOGISE. I constantly need to be taught my sinfulness and place. Thank you, my God and Saviour for both your Love and Law. They are so very much the same. Praise your Name, o my Lord Jesus.

I'm sorry, Stuart Lawrence. Looking to the written code must needs drive us closer to the Lord Jesus, who draws us to the foot of his cross through it, where the Father reveals his Son to us in his glorious suffering unto the Resurrection of Life into the Kingdom of the Prince of Peace. He shall never forsake us, least in the moment of visitation in his wrath.

No wonder Jesus said that "he who minimizes the least of God's commandments and so teaches others will be called least in the Kingdom of heaven" in Matt 5. He was being serious. I was not just making up some sort of pre-cross "bad idea". waiting until after the cross to have some "good ideas" as some have imagined.

1 John 5:2-3 says it best.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Ex 20:6 "Love Me AND keep My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND the faith of JESUS"

God is not at war with His WORD.
God is not at war with His Commandments.
Neither are His children.

But in Romans 8:4-9 God identifies a group of people that ARE at war with God and His Commandments.

BTW
You misquoted Jesus( unintentionally I am sure)

Anyone who breaks the least of THESE commandments( the ones Christ is teaching) and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ gave us the true meaning of Gods commandments.

He magnified and expanded them -- He did not delete them. Are you objecting this Bible detail?

Here we have Christ addressing the issue of 'diminishing' the commandments of God -- one of the actual TEN.

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Commandment of God = Word of God = Moses Said -- with example being a quote from the TEN commandments.
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unique list of TEN

Christ then reminds us that instead of being at war with the Commandments of God - Christ gives NO COMMANDMENT to negate/downsize/ignore the Word of the Father.

John 14
8 Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12:48-49
48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Even your own pro-sunday scholars admit that the TEN Commandments -- all-TEN apply to the saints today.

So then -- it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain"

And "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

-------------------

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism