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For sin shall mo longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14
Romans 6 requires obedience to the word of God - under grace.
Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"
And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still
In Romans 3:19-20 Paul explains the term "UNDER the LAW" means condemned by the LAW as a sinner and going to hell.
So then in Romans 6 the point is made for those who are under the Gospel and no longer going to hell. Does Paul say in Romans 6 that continued rebellion against the LAW of God is going to work for Christians??
So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"
Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
1 Cor 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
What is this, tag team?Given the volumes of texts I have given from Paul - and your insistence on ignoring them - that false accusation you make at that point is most glaring.
I'm talking to you here.But I don't know who you are talking to!! You make comments like this:
I have answered you, I said we believe we are saved by grace, you are the one that has refused to answer my question if an unrepentant sinner can be saved, and you have not refuted you believe that they can be.
Tell me you who want to be under the law.....
Gal4:21
The term "under the LAW" in Gal 4 -- in its most favorable light - means under the obligation of the ceremonial law apart from faith. But in general Paul uses the term with respect to condemnation under the moral of God without the Gospel benefit of salvation.
The end of Galatians 4 is not about condemning the Word of God in the OT - it is the use of an allegory to demonstrate that the LAW of God is not a second-gospel a competing-gospel and never was. Period.
Gal 4
21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
<Paul is not saying "tell me you want want to affirm scripture - the Word of God -- how dare you not condemn scripture" > Rather Paul is addressing those who want to use the Law as a gospel.
Gal 4
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
“Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear;
Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor;
For more numerous are the children of the desolate
Than of the one who has a husband.”
NOTE: "Jerusalem above" was there in both OT and NT times. This is not a condemnation of the OT text of scripture. In fact it is in the OT that we find the NEW Covenant "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 - what is more "for it is written" is a reference to the still-authoritative OT text - as scripture.
Gal 4
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?
“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
NOTE: "Him who is born of the Spirit" is the same pre-cross teaching we see from Christ in John 3 - speaking to Nicodemus. Far from being a condemnation of pre-cross teaching - it affirms it.
================================
Rom 9
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" both in OT and also by NT standards
So then in Rom 6 Paul speaks about the obligation not to SIN - even though not "under the law" -- not under the condemnation of the LAW.
Rom 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered
1 john 2:1 "these things I write to you that you sin NOT"
The Covenant at Sinai with Israel included
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
And 40 years later Moses reminds them --
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
Christ continues to affirm them in Matt 22 , pre-cross - the Law of Moses upheld.
So then why is Paul associating Sinai with the old covenant in Gal 4?
Because the ceremonial law is no longer in effect.
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" as compared to the ceremonial laws such as circumcision - as we see in this example from 1Cor 7:19
notice how Christ upholds what "Moses said" in Mark 7 calling it "The WORD of GOD"
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"
"Love ME and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6 -- from the TEN Commandments.
No wonder NT authors affirm the TEN Commandments as part of the moral law of God for the saints even in the NT as we see here
14 minutes ago #1
Heb 8:6-10 Christ's New Covenant and His TEN Commandments at Sinai
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a New Covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
What is this, tag team?
As you believe the christian us under law and I have given five very plain verses of scripture where Paul states the christian is not under law/ they die to the law, you must believe Paul made false statements.
Dont be silly. I have given five very plain verses of scripture. They contradict your belief. So if you are right, Paul would have to be a false apostle, which h ed is notThank you for at the very least being willing to give that one tiny snippet from Galatians 4
But as you can see - Galatians 4 and the details in the Bible connected to it - utterly refute the arguments you have made on this topic.
Its not one tiny snippet. Paul plainly states the christian I not under law/ they die to the law.I have shown in Romans 6 and Galatians 4 and 2Cor 3 how your one vs tiny snippet proof-text did not fit the chapters in question. I believe in exegesis - accepting the context and the verse.
I'm talking to you here.
Is a requirement to enter heaven obeying the TC?
Under the law means under a law of righteousness. You should have learnt that in beginners class at your church. So now you are contradicting an immense amount of scriptureI have shown in Romans 6 and Galatians 4 and 2Cor 3 how your one vs tiny snippet proof-text did not fit the chapters in question. I believe in exegesis - accepting the context and the verse.
So to be clear. Are you saying obeying the TC is NOT a requirement to enter heaven for anyone ?How can that be when we have repeatedly told you that we are saved by grace---the thief on the cross did not have a chance to keep the commandments, there are many who have never herd of them who will be saved, because they heard the voice of God and repented when He said whatever they did was wrong did as He asked. Now, where does it say an unrepentant sinner is saved?
So to be clear. Are you saying obeying the TC is NOT a requirement to enter heaven for anyone ?
Can you answer Tha simple question?
As to your last sentance. Have the courage to answer my simple question and you will have a full response to your question.How can that be when we have repeatedly told you that we are saved by grace---the thief on the cross did not have a chance to keep the commandments, there are many who have never heard of them who will be saved, because they heard the voice of God and repented when He said whatever they did was wrong did as He asked. Now, where does it say an unrepentant sinner is saved?
No, you have not clearly answered it concerning all peopleAnd you still do not answer mine!! I've answered yours, reread if you must---now answer mine!!
All you are proving I how weak sda doctrine really is.While you continue to figure it out----my husband and my dog both want their dinner. I'm not sure which more irritable when hungry.
First of all - keep these three texts in mind
Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"
And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still
In Romans 3:19-20 Paul explains the term "UNDER the LAW" means condemned by the LAW as a sinner and going to hell.
============== now then - Romans 6
So then in Romans 6 the point is made for those who are under the Gospel and no longer going to hell. Does Paul say in Romans 6 that continued rebellion against the LAW of God is going to work for Christians??
So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"
Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
Under the law means under a law of righteousness. You should have learnt that in beginners class at your church. So now you are contradicting an immense amount of scripture
We have one sda member who appears not to know if a requirement to enter heaven is obeying the TC
Another one who insists the christian is under law( which means a law of righteousness) thereby contradicting huge swathes of scripture.
It doesn't look good!
Oh I didn't miss it. But as you dont respond to my bible texts, why would I respond to yours?First of all - I appreciate that your posted response to my post on Romans 6 - is a comment that make it appear you did not read the Romans 6 and related Bible details at all. It gives me the encouragement to post those bible texts - outside of the quote -- so we can all see in the post without having to expand it.
Here the part of Romans 6 you apparently missed.
============= So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"
Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
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