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I am not going to post 2 Cor 8 and 9 here so everyone can see that the context is money, you should be able to read it for yourself.
I agree with Oscarr that being righteous is true wealth, but it is not his salvation that is the issue with prosperity, it is other people's. The more money I have the more people I can reach with the message of good news. It is not sufficient for me to sit down and count my blessings one by one and ignore the ignorance of the world.
Amen! Just wanted to give another testimony. My car the other day got an engine warning light, I researched and found that it can be the gas I use or more serious things. I dont really have the money to get an engine repairted so prayed about it. Today after running out some of the gas that was in it and checking fluid levels and so on I was driving and it went out. Answered prayer. Now some might say it was just the gas but to someone like me that cant afford to replace things much it was a miracle! I have had God do things like this before and He takes care of not only me but my things as well. God bless you all.
The main problem that I have with the so-called "prosperity message" are its messengers, many of which have found it to be a good fund raising tool. On the one hand I don't judge them, or blame them, (God can judge His own servants and doesn't need my help for that). Media is incredibly expensive, and I can't even imagine the financial pressure of maintaining a large media ministry. However, hypocrisy is not hard to spot, and most people know it when they see it. I know this may sound harsh, but those who are preaching the posperity message on national/international television, and yet do not live by faith themselves, but rather live on how well they can manipulate money out of the hands of their listeners through false promises and guilt, are one of the main reasons that the prosperity critics have a following. To be fair, there are many well known television ministers that dont do such, but there seem to be as many or more who do, and it has given cause for the accuser of the brethren to sound legitimate in his cirticism to those who see such hypocrisy so blatantly displayed, and/or have found themselves victims of such manipulation.
The main cause of this manipulation is the doctrine of sowing and reaping, which is greatly misunderstood and misrepresented. The law of sowing and reaping is a natural law, put in place at the beginning, and it applies equally to believers and non-believers alike. In Christ we operate under a higher law, that being the law of Grace. We reap what Christ sowed:
9For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
-2 Corinthians 8:9
While it is true that the natural law of sowing and reaping works for christians, it is not the primary source of our faith. What Christ sowed on the cross is the primary source of our faith, and the basis of our confession. Of course, the problem with the grace message, is that it is not as conducive to manipulating money out of the hands of the faithful, as the sowing and reaping message is. Telling one that God blesses them based primarily on what Christ did, does little to motivate one to give sacrificially; however, telling them that God blesses them based on what they give can easily motivate one to do so, as most of us tend to act in our own self interest. Thus the trend towards the latter at the expense of the former, as a means to raise funds, IMHO.
Peace...
I have an idea of my own. But first, here's a few Scriptures...
8This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. Joshua 1:8
4Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Psalm 37:4
3Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established. Proverbs 16:3
18But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day. Deuteronomy 8:18
5And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. Deuteronomy 30:5
9And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers Deuteronomy 30:9
1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 3And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. Psalm 1:1-3
10The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing. Psalm 34:10
27Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. Psalm 35:27
33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33
It is quite difficult indeed to look at the above Scriptures (and these are only a few -- there are MANY more) and truly not understand that God wants to prosper His kids. So why is it that so many people resist this teaching?
I am interested in hearing others' viewpoints on this, because in all things I want to be thoroughly equipped to minister to others. Studying to show myself approved so to speak.
From my perspective, I can see two issues here. First, I think there are those who simply cannot believe these teachings because of failings in their own lives. They think that since they themselves haven't prospered (for whatever reason), then it must not be sound doctrine.
The second issue (and it can actually be closely linked to the first when one thinks about it) is a good example of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". What I mean is that there are those who reject prosperity teachings not because they are unbiblical, but because they don't trust other human beings (and themselves really) with doctrine so wonderful. These are the sorts of folks who like to throw around the words "greed", "lust for money", etc. As if teaching prosperity automatically confers these sorts of sinful thoughts on someone. They seem almost afraid of these teachings, for fear of what human beings might twist them (and HAVE done so BTW) into meaning. Like a preacher who might say, "Give to this ministry from all of your life's savings, and all of your lines of credit, and you will be unbelievably rich!!" Sure, there are thieves out there. And there are those people who believe in prosperity without ONE thought for the Kingdom of God, as we are admonished to seek first in Matthew 6:33. And there are those who want nothing more than to be completely filthy rich, but have no spiritual maturity. These souls should be prayed for, that their hearts and minds come into agreement with what SCRIPTURE teaches about prosperity. But the thing is, such distorted views of Scripture, in my humble opinion, should not negate an important teaching. Just because someone abuses a Scriptural principle does not render the teaching itself null and void. That is what I mean by "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".
I would love to hear others' thoughts on this matter.
My thoughts are this.....God does want his people to be blessed. However, sometimes this is all the gospel that some preach....give and you will prosper financially. The gospel is that Jesus died and rose again. That is first and foremost, not how this old flesh is supposed to never suffer an instant of pain or poverty. We all have trials in this life, and according to your faith, Jesus said, be it unto to you. Don't seek prosperity, seek Jesus Christ for he says "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you".
Would any of the WoF folks still serve God if they found themselves suddenly penniless? Or stricken with a devasting illness. Yet this does happen to a lot of christians and they must learn to stand on God's word.
I know of a very dear lady a few years ago, who was bound and determined to "claim" her healing for her infected leg. She quoted scriptures constantly, told God he had to heal her because his word said so, etc. etc. She was constantly rebuking the devil. She got gangerene in her leg and refused treatment because she had "claimed" her healing. It got worse until she died. I believe she was very sincere, I prayed for her a lot also. I know she is in heaven because she loved God. There is a balance in all of this. We are to be obedient to God and trust in Him, no matter what we go through.
Something funny, my old pastor used to say that if you believe sickness is a blessing, ask God for two cancers instead of one. God does bless his people, but there is a condition to be met. No doubt many run around spouting off the promises of God, that they are blessed, prospered, etc. etc and fail to live up to the conditions. Wisdom is deserving of her children.
Faith is a verb, it denotes action and is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. So if there doesn't come any substance in response to their "faith", then somebody does not know the mind of God.
I wanted to add that the doctrine of sowing and reaping is biblical and sound. It is taught correctly by most, it is simply the emphases that I disagree with.
Much like Paul taught a whole chapter on the gifts of the Spirit, yet then went on to say, "..yet I show unto you a more excellent way", and proceeded to talk about love.
There are many principles and laws that are taught by many in the church that are correct and true, yet they are systems that can be, and have been, superceded by the laws of faith and grace and love. Trying to follow these rules is good, and may be neccesary for us in order to instill discipline and guide us, however, once our senses are excercised to discern good from evil, we should be able to move on into the realm of grace and perfection.
Sowing and reaping is a good thing. However, your sowing will never be perfect over your life, because you still live in a fleshly body. Having faith in ones own sowing ability will let one down in time, I gaurantee you. But placing your faith in the promises of God that are based on the perfect seed sown by God on the cross at calvary will never let you down. That is an incorruptible inheritance, eternal in the heavens, where we are seated with Him at the right hand of the Father.
Peace...
The spiritual tools that He gives us, mostly chastening and rebuke is to change or to refine us so that we may receive even financial blessings.
I don't know if I would necessarily say that chastening and rebuke are 'tools' per-se, but I totally agree with this statement. As we know, money is the root of all kinds of evil - and obviously God knows this as well - so why would he give it to someone whom he knows cannot handled it? He would be setting them up for spiritual failure if he did.
I would say that it is very mature of you, being someone who is not currently prospering financially to understand this. When I was in your shoes, I knew that I was missing it somewhere but it took me a very long time to understand that God is more concerned with our spiritual well being then our financial prosperity. I thought that I just didn't "have enough faith to make the 100 fold return manifest" haha.
I did learn though, that while the Lord did not promise to prosper us financially (although he wants to be able to), he did promise to always meet our needs, and in my own life I have seen this to be true.
Would any of the WoF folks still serve God if they found themselves suddenly penniless? Or stricken with a devasting illness. Yet this does happen to a lot of christians and they must learn to stand on God's word.
Hey everyone, I found a great article online (by accident) yesterday. I went to a couple of so-called "word of faith" ministers websites to read up on what they had to say about prosperity, and was beside myself to learn that what their teaching IS COMPLETELY FALSE DOCTRINE! I literally gasped and googled "Kenneth Hagin Prosperity" to see what he had to say about it, and thats when I stumbled upon this article and was able to let out a sigh of relief. As soon as I read this I went on amazon and ordered "The Midas Touch" I can't wait to read it!
I had to learn everything I know about the false prosperity gospel by being burned by it and learning the truth through prayer and study - Everything that the Lord taught me individually is touched upon in this article, it serves as such a wonderful confirmation to me that the Lord truly was speaking to my heart. This was HONESTLY the first time I'd read anything that I believe to be true that was taught by a "prosperity teacher", so I'm more then a little bit excited (until now I had almost given up on the idea of any preacher teaching truth on the matter!)
Anyway, if you want to check it out, it's a quick read (but it blessed my socks off) Kenneth Hagins Forgotten Warning
If we preach nothing but sowing into the kingdom for a return, where is the time devoted to preaching the gospel?
I read your last few posts, and you seem to really know what your talking about, so maybe you can give me your take on this...
I had to learn about the whole "false prosperity" doctrine the hard way, and your right when you say that there really is an emphasis on sewing and reaping when it comes to that. I was taught that you could claim certain amounts of money or even material posessions by making financial donations (in other words, giving to get something in return). The idea was that you were sewing, and since sewing is a biblical principal it absolutely had to "work" or else you were doing something wrong (IE lack of faith). I thought that since you could claim physical healing then you could claim anything. It took me a really long time to realize that this wasn't "working" for anyone I knew that was buying into the doctrine and finally concluded that something was wrong (especially when the pastor took his 3rd cruise that year). Once I concluded that I was giving with the wrong motive, I stopped giving entirely, just to get my bearings straight - and that's when I finally saw the financial breakthrough that I was trying to sew into all that time. I concluded that the Lord must be more pleased with someone who isn't even giving anything then with someone who is giving with selfish motives.
(I started giving again, but now I give out of my heart and only places that I sense are okay to give to - and I'm now living a very abundant life)
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