Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

[BobRyan]

Anyone that is curious about the SDA just needs to go and research their history to clearly see that they are 'not' of the true Churches of Christ. They have simply done what most have done and that is 'use the name of Christ' in their 'religion'.

A 'woman', delirious from fever supposedly had visions which led to the formation of this 'religion'.

All of that post is factually and historically untrue - but I guess you are free to make stuff up if that is your preferred form of posting.

Maybe that is the purpose of this kind of thread - draw a line between pure fiction and historic fact.

Factually and historically untrue? So you are accusing me of offering 'false information'? Ok.

Ever heard of Ellen White? Ever study the history of 'your religion'? If so, are you denying that she was suffering from illness when she received her 'delusions' or 'visions' from God?

Of course I deny that since it is factually wrong.

You also said "A 'woman', delirious from fever supposedly had visions"

The actual history is that as a child of 9 she was on the receiving end of a rock thrown by another child.

8+ years later at the age of 17 she received her first vision -- and apparently you have "imagined some history" that though this is more than 8 years later she still "has a fever" from when a child threw a rock at her??

Really??

This is your own spin on history that you want to claim as "factual"??

Go to the actual beliefs - the doctrinal statement for the SDA church and see what is presented as the basis/argument/compelling-case for the doctrinal statement. (The denomination does not grow this fast without telling people what we believe and why).

https://www.adventist.org/fileadmin...rticles/official-statements/28Beliefs-Web.pdf

And that the 'religion': Seventh Day Advetists is the result of her 'claimed visions'?

Also false. The 17 year old Ellen Harmon in Dec 1844 (She was not married to James White until later) - was not the leader of any church -- in fact the SDA denomination did not come into formal organization until the 1860's.

Is there some point where what you say - gets somewhere near actual history?

While I'm certainly NOT a SDA, I have read quite a bit about it's history. So please, if you are going to make such accusations, at least be specific about what you believe I have offered that is UNTRUE.

Well then - as per your request - I start with the facts above.

As further proof you may go to the online - free-to-all statement of beliefs of SDAs where once again you will see that the source for it is the Bible.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and His angels ...

notice how you twisted the verse here and put a capital "H" for his, making him diety by doing so. This is the kind of errors that tribes many true believers when other groups just test scripture, it is not His but his. Michael being the archangel (not God, or the only begotten Son of God)

"7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

 

[LoveofTruth]

BTW the whole "God the Son is also called Michael" topic is not even one of our doctrinal statements of belief. But since you enjoy the subject - I am happy to participate in it.



Archangel is the prototype for all angels. There is only 1.

To call God a man in Genesis 18 means he is a man??

We know that he is not.

And same is true for the 2 angels in Genesis 18 - being called "men" - we know in Genesis 19 for example that they are angels.

----------------- "our prince" - according to the Bible is God the Son - Jesus Christ - also called Michael

Isaiah 9 -- the ONLY prince from heaven - given to us in all of scripture

But we read

"
Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

 

[LoveofTruth]

BTW the whole "God the Son is also called Michael" topic is not even one of our doctrinal statements of belief. But since you enjoy the subject - I am happy to participate in it.



Archangel is the prototype for all angels. There is only 1.

To call God a man in Genesis 18 means he is a man??

We know that he is not.

And same is true for the 2 angels in Genesis 18 - being called "men" - we know in Genesis 19 for example that they are angels.

----------------- "our prince" - according to the Bible is God the Son - Jesus Christ - also called Michael

Isaiah 9 -- the ONLY prince from heaven - given to us in all of scripture

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Dan 10
21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

---- God the Son - alone --- is commander of all the angels in heaven

And of course God the Son (and not some angel) is the head of all Angels

Hebrews 1 -
6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and His angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

Prince simply means captain or head person of any rank or class. Michael was an archangel. Notice the angel part. He is never referred to as God. In fact if men bow down to any angels they rebuke then as we see here

"6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." ( Revelation 22:6-9)

7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

and a warning to all who would worship angels in any form

Colossians 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

 

[LoveofTruth]

a warning to all who would worship angels in any form

Colossians 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

 

[LoveofTruth]

Isaiah 9 -- the ONLY prince from heaven - given to us in all of scripture

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Dan 10
21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

---- God the Son - alone --- is commander of all the angels in heaven

And of course God the Son (and not some angel) is the head of all Angels

a warning to all

Colossians 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." ( Galatians 1:8)

 

[BobRyan]

a warning to all

Colossians 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." ( Galatians 1:8)

A warning to all - if you think that the Genesis 18 statement that God and 2 angels are "three men" means they are just "three men" you are most certainly mistaken. They are in fact God and 2 angels -- just the same.

 

[BobRyan]

a warning to all who would worship angels in any form

Colossians 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Indeed no praying to angels.

And no praying to men either. If you think that Genesis 18 statement about God and 2 angels described as "three men" means that God and the angels are "men" --- you would be mistaken. Please don't pray to men or worship them.

 

[BobRyan]

BTW the whole "God the Son is also called Michael" topic is not even one of our doctrinal statements of belief. But since you enjoy the subject - I am happy to participate in it.

No, to call Michael an archangel, means he is an angel, .

Archangel is the prototype for all angels. There is only 1.

To call God a man in Genesis 18 means he is a man??

We know that he is not.

And same is true for the 2 angels in Genesis 18 - being called "men" - we know in Genesis 19 for example that they are angels.

----------------- "our prince" - according to the Bible is God the Son - Jesus Christ - also called Michael

Isaiah 9 -- the ONLY prince from heaven - given to us in all of scripture

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Dan 10
21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

---- God the Son - alone --- is commander of all the angels in heaven

And of course God the Son (and not some angel) is the head of all Angels

Hebrews 1 -
6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and His angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

Prince simply means captain or head person of any rank or class.

"unto us is given... Prince of peace" Isiah 9
"Michael your prince" Daniel 10

But just because Genesis 18 calls God and 2 angels "three men" -- you should not think that God and the angels are "just men" -- that would be a mistake.

Again, Michael is *not* a title. It is a proper name of one of the archangels. No different from all of the other angels that were created, except in rank. It is not a title of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Word of John 1, it does not and never has referred to the angel/archangel Michael. By the way, the Roman Catholics recognize three archangels: Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael.

The Eastern Orthodox recognizes seven Archangels, Michael being one of them.

So, who am I more likely to think is credible? I'll go with history and traditional church

You are free to choose whatever you wish - of course.

And same is true for the 2 angels in Genesis 18 - being called "men" - we know in Genesis 19 for example that they are angels.

----------------- "our prince" - according to the Bible is God the Son - Jesus Christ - also called Michael

Isaiah 9 -- the ONLY prince from heaven - given to us in all of scripture

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Dan 10
21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

---- God the Son - alone --- is commander of all the angels in heaven

And of course God the Son (and not some angel) is the head of all Angels

Hebrews 1 -
6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and His angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

 

[mmksparbud]

No, to call Michael an archangel, means he is an angel, like the other angels are and he is in a higher place of rank, and archangel. Jesus was made little lower than the angels (as a general term for all such beings whether archangels or lower rank), and God said unto which of the angels said he at any time thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

The word "angel" is referred to a certain kind of being in scripture, not just a designation. Just like mankind is referred to a certain kind of being. Jesus is not an angel or a created being, he is God in the flesh the Son Of God, the Word of God eternal. He did not have a beginning and he is the creator of all things. If he created all things then he is not one of the creation. He is before all things and before they were created.

To miss this is a vital concern because to deny the Lord jesus and who he is is a salvation issue.

No, Michael is a title not a designation of substance. The word angels means messenger. Jesus is the supreme Messenger of God. Jesus is Michael, He is the High Priest, He is the Son of God, He is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Captain of the host of God, The Word, Son of man, Alpha and Omega, Prince of peace,

Again, who else can accept worship? No mere angel can.
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
Exo 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
No angel makes the ground Holy, God alone does.

Act_7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.--
Rev_14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Is that a man? Anyone else it means exactly that--the son of a man---is Jesus the son of a man??? Is He a word, is He a human high priest, a human prince--do we have another price other than Jesus???

 

[Jadis40]

Again, Michael is *not* a title. It is a proper name of one of the archangels. No different from all of the other angels that were created, except in rank. It is not a title of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Word of John 1, it does not and never has referred to the angel/archangel Michael. By the way, the Roman Catholics recognize three archangels: Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael.

The Eastern Orthodox recognizes seven Archangels, Michael being one of them.

So, who am I more likely to think is credible? I'll go with history and traditional church understanding of who and what Michael is (just an angel, albeit the leader of the angels), not the teachings of a denomination that came into being in the 19th century.

 

[Jadis40]

Duplicate post

 

[mmksparbud]

So, who am I more likely to think is credible? I'll go with history and traditional church understanding of who and what Michael is (just an angel, albeit the leader of the angels), not the teachings of a denomination that came into being in the 19th century.

It is not a doctrinal teaching of the church----and if you want to believe tradition over the bible---that is your right to chose so. I go by the bible. And as soon as you can tell me what angel, or man, can be worshipped I will change my mind about who Michael is.

Jos 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

There was no one else there, was this a man who could be worshipped, was this an angel that could be worshipped and declare the ground holy?? Is the captain of the Lord's host to be worshipped?

 

[SkyWriting]

On YouTube I watched how the SDA are a cult. According to my dictionary there is nothing wrong with being a cult.
Here the SDA defends itself:

People who hate, care. It's the ones who don't care
that we are concerned about.

 

[BobRyan]

People who hate, care. It's the ones who don't care
that we are concerned about.

Here we have "hating and caring" being equated. Interesting religion.

 

[SkyWriting]

Here we have "hating and caring" being equated. Interesting religion.

Lack of insight?

The greatest danger to our future is apathy. Jane Goodall "The Power of One", Time Magazine (August 26, 2002).

The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.George Bernard Shaw, The Devil's Disciple (1897)

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of beauty is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, but indifference between life and death.

• Elie Wiesel, US News & World Report

Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.

• John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St. Andrews, Feb. 1st 1867.

 

[sparow]

People who hate, care. It's the ones who don't care
that we are concerned about.

There is some reason to what you say; if one hates what someone does, and errs, recovery is not difficult but if one hates the person publicly recovery is very difficult. I people are hated because they keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus then it is actually God who is hated.

 

[BobRyan]

If people are hated because they keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus then it is actually God who is hated.

Indeed

 

[mmksparbud]

Luk_1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
Luk_6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

 

[LoveofTruth]

BTW the whole "God the Son is also called Michael" topic is not even one of our doctrinal statements of belief. But since you enjoy the subject - I am happy to participate in it.



Archangel is the prototype for all angels. There is only 1.

To call God a man in Genesis 18 means he is a man??

We know that he is not.

And same is true for the 2 angels in Genesis 18 - being called "men" - we know in Genesis 19 for example that they are angels.

----------------- "our prince" - according to the Bible is God the Son - Jesus Christ - also called Michael

Isaiah 9 -- the ONLY prince from heaven - given to us in all of scripture

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Dan 10
21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

---- God the Son - alone --- is commander of all the angels in heaven

And of course God the Son (and not some angel) is the head of all Angels

Hebrews 1 -
6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and His angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.




"unto us is given... Prince of peace" Isiah 9
"Michael your prince" Daniel 10

But just because Genesis 18 calls God and 2 angels "three men" -- you should not think that God and the angels are "just men" -- that would be a mistake.



You are free to choose whatever you wish - of course.

And same is true for the 2 angels in Genesis 18 - being called "men" - we know in Genesis 19 for example that they are angels.

----------------- "our prince" - according to the Bible is God the Son - Jesus Christ - also called Michael

Isaiah 9 -- the ONLY prince from heaven - given to us in all of scripture

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Dan 10
21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

---- God the Son - alone --- is commander of all the angels in heaven

And of course God the Son (and not some angel) is the head of all Angels

Hebrews 1 -
6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and His angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

Is Jesus Christ in you ?

A simple yes or no ?