Why do People Fight so hard for Their Own Free Will ?

[BNR32FAN]

He does choose his "elect" or predispose the 144,000 to be saved, but as for the rest of us, he may leave that up to "some" of us... But, which is better...? Those who had no choice in the matter, and did not make the choice in the matter...? Or, those who did...?

And do you think God is in control of the overall destination and course of the world as a whole...? (cause he is)...

God simply does not need to "control" everything, to be "in control" of everything...

And, he is not responsible for evil, that was/is all due to the free-will part, but he does "sometimes", not always, but sometimes "use" it though...

God Bless!

This idea means that only the people God chooses can be saved. So the people He didn’t choose never had a chance at salvation. To me this would be a contradiction of John 3:16. For God so loved the world. Not only the chosen but all the world.

 

[Neogaia777]

One time I was going to school and I needed to be really early in the morning at the nursing center where I was doing my practice. It was a cold rainy morning and it was still dark. I was woken up by the Spirit before the alarm went off, I had a feeling I shouldn't go to class, but my sense of responsibility just wouldn't let me miss class.

Got ready, my GPS didnt work that morning, but I had been there a couple of times before so I tried going without it. What should’ve been a 15 minute drive became an hour lost in the morning traffic, in the dark and in the rain. I almost crashed my car when I couldn't see two lanes were made into one. I finally found an exit I recognized and kept driving until I got home. I texted my teacher and excused myself.

I went to school the next week, explained what happened and the teacher said only one person showed up.

God didn't control me that day, He adviced me, but I did what I wanted because I didn't recognize what He was saying. He speaks to us all the time, we are the ones not listening.

Excellent example... I've experienced things like that as well... He see's all and knows all, and does directly control some things, but also leaves some things up to us, and will sometimes "warn" some of us, of some things as well...

A lot of "some's" in there, I know... But, who can know the ways of God, and say for certain, in one instance, or in one certain, (for certain), one person's specific case, or time, or "whatever", or another...

That's for him and him alone to know, I think...

(might be able to know in "some" instances or "some" cases in our own lives "sometimes", but not all, and most often never in another's or each others (cases or lives) (for certain)...

God Bless!

 

[BNR32FAN]

One time I was going to school and I needed to be really early in the morning at the nursing center where I was doing my practice. It was a cold rainy morning and it was still dark. I was woken up by the Spirit before the alarm went off, I had a feeling I shouldn't go to class, but my sense of responsibility just wouldn't let me miss class.

Got ready, my GPS didnt work that morning, but I had been there a couple of times before so I tried going without it. What should’ve been a 15 minute drive became an hour lost in the morning traffic, in the dark and in the rain. I almost crashed my car when I couldn't see two lanes were made into one. I finally found an exit I recognized and kept driving until I got home. I texted my teacher and excused myself.

I went to school the next week, explained what happened and the teacher said only one person showed up.

God didn't control me that day, He adviced me, but I did what I wanted because I didn't recognize what He was saying. He speaks to us all the time, we are the ones not listening.

I have no doubt that God reached out to save me. Evidently He saw something in me that I didn’t see in myself because I never thought I would ever read the Bible much less go to bible study and enjoy it. I study the scriptures almost everyday now. Even going into the Greek translations. If someone would’ve told me 6 years ago that I would be doing this now I’d laugh and say your crazy. I don’t know why He chose me but knowing that He did tells me that He does see something in me that will one day be worth saving. Even tho God chose me I still had to make the choice to turn to Him and obey. I have no doubt about that.

 

[Neogaia777]

This idea means that only the people God chooses can be saved. So the people He didn’t choose never had a chance at salvation. To me this would be a contradiction of John 3:16. For God so loved the world. Not only the chosen but all the world.

Your not understanding... It is only the "people who didn't choose him", (besides "the ones he chose"), that are not, or do not get (to be) saved...

John 3:16 does not mean the entire world gets saved, but only those who believe(d) (on him) (or chose him) (besides those chosen by God) that get (to be) (his) or saved...

God Bless!

 

[Philip_B]

John 3:17

 

[Neogaia777]

John 3:17

"If possible", that was Jesus hope... But even he knew that was ultimately up to his Father... And, it is only to all in the world who "believe in" or upon him (John 3:16)...

Now, if all (the world) would believe in or upon him, it might be possible, it's just something I doubt, (will actually happen) is all...

Judgement is tricky and complicated, cause what about those who did not have a (right) "chance" or true possible choice to believe, for example...

But, I think Gods' word says that by the time Jesus comes back, that everyone will have had that chance and choice... And, only "all" can be saved, if "all" choose to be saved... (except those God already chose or sealed to be saved, that is)...

God Bless!

 

[MDC]

This idea means that only the people God chooses can be saved. So the people He didn’t choose never had a chance at salvation. To me this would be a contradiction of John 3:16. For God so loved the world. Not only the chosen but all the world.

So you believe everyone deserves a chance to be saved? And if not is God unjust and unfair? So what of all the heathen nations outside Israel before Christ. Do all those heathen deserve a chance too? And what about those who have never heard of Christ throughout the centuries? Is God just to condemn every soul according to you?

 

[MDC]

"If possible", that was Jesus hope... But even he knew that was ultimately up to his Father... And, it is only to all in the world who "believe in" or upon him (John 3:16)...

Now, if all (the world) would believe in or upon him, it might be possible, it's just something I doubt, (will actually happen) is all...

Judgement is tricky and complicated, cause what about those who did not have a (right) "chance" or true possible choice to believe, for example...

But, I think Gods' word says that by the time Jesus comes back, that everyone will have had that chance and choice... And, only "all" can be saved, if "all" choose to be saved... (except those God already chose or sealed to be saved, that is)...

God Bless!

Is God unjust KNOWING, through foreknowledge, by creating man the majority will parish in hell for their sin? And by knowing this what do you believe was God’s purpose in doing so?

 

[Neogaia777]

So you believe everyone deserves a chance to be saved? And if not is God unjust and unfair? So what of all the heathen nations outside Israel before Christ. Do all those heathen deserve a chance too? And what about those who have never heard of Christ throughout the centuries? Is God just to condemn every soul according to you?

I think with some of them, the "truth" was revealed to them, from within, but they rejected it, or we may see some of them in heaven maybe... Who knows...?

God Bless!

 

[MDC]

I think with some of them, the "truth" was revealed to them, from within, but they rejected it, or we may see some of them in heaven maybe... Who knows...?

God Bless!

That didn’t answer anything. So for God to be just man must have a chance to be saved?

 

[Neogaia777]

Is God unjust KNOWING, through foreknowledge, by creating man the majority will parish in hell for their sin? And by knowing this what do you believe was God’s purpose in doing so?

Those who "full well knowingly" and of their own free will, full well knowingly, willingly "reject" the truth, are the only ones who will "perish in hell for their (that) sin" I believe...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

That didn’t answer anything. So for God to be just man must have a chance to be saved?

Unless they are already chosen to be saved, yes...

God Bless!

 

[zoidar]

Ok that was examples of people chosen for a specific purpose. It doesn’t mean that everyone is chosen for a specific purpose in God’s plan. I still don’t see anything saying we don’t have free will.

I don't think Rom 9 proves that! Though I do agree that people are chosen for different purposes. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not the same to everyone. Not everyone will meet Jesus like Paul did.

"For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.”

God could have killed the pharao as a child, but He didn't. He raised him up instead, even he knew about his dark heart. Then he used the wickedness of the pharao to demonstrate his power. Whose fault was the wickedness of the Pharao? Was it God who made him evil? Of course not.

 

[MDC]

Unless they are already chosen to be saved, yes...

God Bless!

So Gods unjust for not giving man a chance? You said yes correct? So you don’t believe man is born in sin and bears the guilt for it?

 

[MDC]

Those who "full well knowingly" and of their own free will, full well knowingly, willingly "reject" the truth, are the only ones who will "perish in hell for their (that) sin" I believe...

God Bless!

And what of those who’ve never heard the truth?

 

[zoidar]

Us talking about stuff like hell without having tears in our eyes for those who are far away from Christ. It shows how much we need to get closer to the Lord, and get the soft heart through the Holy Spirit ...

 

[Neogaia777]

So Gods unjust for not giving man a chance? You said yes correct? So you don’t believe man is born in sin and bears the guilt for it?

Sin is not the issue, believing and faith is, and rejecting the truth of that (is)...

By the time the end comes, the Bible is pretty clear that everyone has that chance and choice to make, about believing that Jesus died and paid for their sins in full and it is only by believing in him and this and loving him and worshiping him as God, ect, ect...

But Jesus took care of the sin issue, except for the sin of unbelief, or rejecting the truth of this and about Jesus full well knowingly of your own free will...

By the time of the end, or by the time a man's end comes, they (we) all have this choice to make... (again, except those chosen by God of course...)

The guilt involved in and with sin, is meant to lead you to Christ or draw you to God, and deepen your relationship with him, then ultimately, if you get there, (and if not your still saved by only believing and having faith in him), then, ultimately, in the end, for him to remove that guilt and shame and condemnation...

God Bless!

 

[MDC]

Sin is not the issue, believing and faith is, and rejecting the truth of that (is)...

By the time the end comes, the Bible is pretty clear that everyone has that chance and choice to make, about believing that Jesus died and paid for their sins in full and it is only by believing in him and this and loving him and worshiping him as God, ect, ect...

But Jesus took care of the sin issue, except for the sin of unbelief, or rejecting the truth of this and about Jesus full well knowingly of your own free will...

By the time of the end, or by the time a man's end comes, they (we) all have this choice to make...

The guilt involved in and with sin, is meant to lead you to Christ or draw you to God, and deepen your relationship with him, then ultimately, if you get there, (and if not your still saved by only believing and having faith in him), then, ultimately, in the end, for him to remove that guilt and shame and condemnation...

God Bless!

You answered nothing. And this ridiculous teaching of Christ dying for all sin except unbelief is no where taught in scripture. Unbelief is the very fruit of sin and the sin nature in man. Nothing but made up by free willers who base their salvation off a decision. Answer my questions

 

[MDC]

Us talking about stuff like hell without having tears in our eyes for those who are far away from Christ. It shows how much we need to get closer to the Lord, and get the soft heart through the Holy Spirit ...

Do you believe man is born in sin and already guilty before God from conception?

 

[Neogaia777]

You answered nothing. And this ridiculous teaching of Christ dying for all sin except unbelief is no where taught in scripture. Unbelief is the very fruit of sin and the sin nature in man. Nothing but made up by free willers who base their salvation off a decision. Answer my questions

Your being ridiculous... I answered your questions the best I could, sorry if that is not enough for you, and if you search the scriptures you'll know every answer I gave is true and scriptural...

And your getting a little to upset for me, so,

Peace and Love, and peace out,

God Bless!