Why do People Fight so hard for Their Own Free Will ?

John tower

The Called Out
Mar 18, 2018
1,065
345
71
Toronto
✟23,199.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I really don't understand the mindset of those who continually fight for their own Free Will ! Is there something wrong with God being in absolute control of all things , including ourselves ? Is there something wrong with being just clay in God's hands ? Do we think we could do a better job then God ? Are we afraid that God is going to make a bunch of mistakes if he is in total control and so we want our own free will to correct these mistakes , and you know , help God out a little bit ? Is this why we fight so hard for our own free will ? Well obviously we know that we could not do a better job then God ! So is it just a pride thing : We don't want to be just clay : We want to do it ourselves ! Given the fact that nobody can do a better job then God : Why do people continue to fight so hard for their own free will ? Makes absolutely no sense ! I am so happy just being clay in the great master potters hands : I have no desire at all presently for my own free will because I know that I could never do a better job then God !!! C O M M E N T S !
 

straykat

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
1,120
640
Catacombs
✟22,648.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
For me personally, it probably traces back to my Americanism. Not sure how it is for anyone else. The whole history of America is cherishes independence. Even our roads are wide open.. and we have 3000 TV channels and a different restaurant every 100 feet. We are founded by Rebels and we watch Cowboy movies and love Rock n Roll.

So yeah.. I gotta squash these impulses in myself.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,381
1,750
✟167,085.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I really don't understand the mindset of those who continually fight for their own Free Will ! Is there something wrong with God being in absolute control of all things , including ourselves ? Is there something wrong with being just clay in God's hands ? Do we think we could do a better job then God ? Are we afraid that God is going to make a bunch of mistakes if he is in total control and so we want our own free will to correct these mistakes , and you know , help God out a little bit ? Is this why we fight so hard for our own free will ? Well obviously we know that we could not do a better job then God ! So is it just a pride thing : We don't want to be just clay : We want to do it ourselves ! Given the fact that nobody can do a better job then God : Why do people continue to fight so hard for their own free will ? Makes absolutely no sense ! I am so happy just being clay in the great master potters hands : I have no desire at all presently for my own free will because I know that I could never do a better job then God !!! C O M M E N T S !
verses like these will follow you around John

You must answer sections like this that totally correct your understanding

Be honest with the text

Isaiah 66 - 3. He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

God says they did that which he delighted not and chose their own ways

How much clearer can it be ??

does God make men deny him, believers or unbelievers? No God cannot deny himself.

Does God make anyone lie? God forbid, for God cannot lie
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,381
1,750
✟167,085.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I have no desire at all presently for my own free will because I know that I could never do a better job then God !!! C O M M E N T S !
You just showed that you believe in freewill and you spoke of your own will. This contradicts many threads you have been posting.

we do have a freewill as scripture clearly teaches

"13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

Soul-searching

Active Member
Jan 27, 2018
153
157
Denmark
✟55,820.00
Country
Denmark
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I really don't understand the mindset of those who continually fight for their own Free Will ! Is there something wrong with God being in absolute control of all things , including ourselves ? Is there something wrong with being just clay in God's hands ? Do we think we could do a better job then God ? Are we afraid that God is going to make a bunch of mistakes if he is in total control and so we want our own free will to correct these mistakes , and you know , help God out a little bit ? Is this why we fight so hard for our own free will ? Well obviously we know that we could not do a better job then God ! So is it just a pride thing : We don't want to be just clay : We want to do it ourselves ! Given the fact that nobody can do a better job then God : Why do people continue to fight so hard for their own free will ? Makes absolutely no sense ! I am so happy just being clay in the great master potters hands : I have no desire at all presently for my own free will because I know that I could never do a better job then God !!! C O M M E N T S !
To me either there is free will or there is not. I believe in the free will, God does not control my life, he is there if i ask for guidance. other than that i am on my own. I need to be on my own to learn, and this life is for learning, it is not about someone holding my hand guiding me. What would i learn from that?? It is about us making mistakes, by the choises we freely make, only by that we can learn and understand the difference in acting on our own. That is just what i think. Some people think they have no control of their lives, and others that they do.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,381
1,750
✟167,085.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I really don't understand the mindset of those who continually fight for their own Free Will ! Is there something wrong with God being in absolute control of all things , including ourselves ?
Yes because God says he is not. And many scriptures can be shown

and he does not do initquity or lie or make men blaspheme etc.

and in scripture God shows that men have gone after their own ways and not His way.

There are so many scriptures to quote I would be here all day and you would not respond to any of them. You would not harmonize them to the few scriptures you take out of context.

This is the troubling part with you and this doctrine.

as a believer God works in us to will and to do and we live in the new creation. But there is still a individual, we are not God. I can do all things through Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,611
7,374
Dallas
✟888,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
We don’t fight for our own free will. It was given to us by God because...

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬

We choose whether to love and obey God or not. If God was the one who chooses then He would be choosing who will burn in the lake of fire and those people would’ve never had any chance for salvation. That wouldn’t be God loving the world would it? So this idea does not coincide with all of the scriptures.
 
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Site Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,193
9,201
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,158,778.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I really don't understand the mindset of those who continually fight for their own Free Will ! Is there something wrong with God being in absolute control of all things , including ourselves ? Is there something wrong with being just clay in God's hands ? Do we think we could do a better job then God ? Are we afraid that God is going to make a bunch of mistakes if he is in total control and so we want our own free will to correct these mistakes , and you know , help God out a little bit ? Is this why we fight so hard for our own free will ? Well obviously we know that we could not do a better job then God ! So is it just a pride thing : We don't want to be just clay : We want to do it ourselves ! Given the fact that nobody can do a better job then God : Why do people continue to fight so hard for their own free will ? Makes absolutely no sense ! I am so happy just being clay in the great master potters hands : I have no desire at all presently for my own free will because I know that I could never do a better job then God !!! C O M M E N T S !

"Do we think we could do a better job than God ? " -- We should want to reverse the huge wrong Adam and Eve made at that point in the Garden, in our own personal lives, and come back to His guidance instead of trying to put ourselves in the position of being God.

But the phrase "Free Will" can be confusing here.

Usually it's used in a discussion about whether we have real freedom to choose or not, and that's quite different from the other thing -- the personal issue of whether a person individually is being too stubborn about our own desires (individually) and wanting to be in full control, authority or power in our own lives. Too independent and non-cooperative.

He is our Father -- and so a good metaphor is that we little ones need to keep hold of His Hand, for our guidance.

But in typical discussions about "Free Will" = (which can be almost metaphysical ("transcending physics/laws of nature"), because we cannot determine it in some easy way like observation in physics (though one can pick out a speculative theory and try to believe in it!), nor can we know by simply an outright only-possible-understanding of scripture once we read many full books completely through in the Bible. Neither physics nor scripture makes its existence or nonexistence simply obvious (tho many would beg to differ no doubt) = in typical discussions on it, we aren't at all referring to personal choices or our personal relationship with God. Rather, we have (I think) a metaphysical speculation.

So, while Free Will (the big topic normally meant) likely exists (in my view), on the other hand personally, individually, we should live by every word from the mouth of God, and not some other way!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

1213

Disciple of Jesus
Jul 14, 2011
3,661
1,117
Visit site
✟146,199.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I really don't understand the mindset of those who continually fight for their own Free Will ! Is there something wrong with God being in absolute control of all things , including ourselves ?

I don’t think free will would make God less powerful. Free will means only that people are free to want whatever they want.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0
Oct 21, 2003
6,793
3,289
Central Time Zone
✟107,193.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I really don't understand the mindset of those who continually fight for their own Free Will ! Is there something wrong with God being in absolute control of all things , including ourselves ? Is there something wrong with being just clay in God's hands ? Do we think we could do a better job then God ? Are we afraid that God is going to make a bunch of mistakes if he is in total control and so we want our own free will to correct these mistakes , and you know , help God out a little bit ? Is this why we fight so hard for our own free will ? Well obviously we know that we could not do a better job then God ! So is it just a pride thing : We don't want to be just clay : We want to do it ourselves ! Given the fact that nobody can do a better job then God : Why do people continue to fight so hard for their own free will ? Makes absolutely no sense ! I am so happy just being clay in the great master potters hands : I have no desire at all presently for my own free will because I know that I could never do a better job then God !!! C O M M E N T S !

It's human nature I think, the flesh is always seeking after glory for itself, people find self-comfort if they think they have some small part that counts for something. I think it also relates to the common conditional type of love between people, and the law written on hearts and the conditioning of minds. Speaking as a compatibilist ("soft determinist") myself, it is a rather daunting task to even attempt to explain the nuances of the harmony between the sovereignty of God and the [limited] free will of mankind that is either in bondage to sin or in bondage to Christ with no master in the middle.

At times, I have to reel things back realizing the bad habit of using the word "I" just a few too many times beyond the scope of its use. In this, there is continual desire towards a God centered outlook on life and recognizing His sovereign hand in the affairs of men.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

John tower

The Called Out
Mar 18, 2018
1,065
345
71
Toronto
✟23,199.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
To me either there is free will or there is not. I believe in the free will, God does not control my life, he is there if i ask for guidance. other than that i am on my own. I need to be on my own to learn, and this life is for learning, it is not about someone holding my hand guiding me. What would i learn from that?? It is about us making mistakes, by the choises we freely make, only by that we can learn and understand the difference in acting on our own. That is just what i think. Some people think they have no control of their lives, and others that they do.
Hebrews 12(2): Looking unto Jesus : The author and finisher of our faith ! and He which began the work will continue it unto the day of Christ and Phil 2(13): It is God that works in you both to will and do of his good pleasure ! God does control your life : You just don't know it yet !
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

John tower

The Called Out
Mar 18, 2018
1,065
345
71
Toronto
✟23,199.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ugh. Did I misread (and mis-answer this)? Is this another thread about predestination? I have a headache as it is. I don't want my head to explode.
The cure to all your headaches : Just accept that God is in control of all things , relax , and all your headaches will be gone !
 
Upvote 0

John tower

The Called Out
Mar 18, 2018
1,065
345
71
Toronto
✟23,199.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don’t think free will would make God less powerful. Free will means only that people are free to want whatever they want.
They don't know what they really need : only God knows these things , they wouldn't know what to do with a free will if such a thing existed !
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

straykat

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
1,120
640
Catacombs
✟22,648.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The cure to all your headaches : Just accept that God is in control of all things , relax , and all your headaches will be gone !

I agree with all of this. But as for actually thinking about free will and predestination, it's beyond me. It's beyond all humans.. but I'll leave it up to everyone to decide when they've had enough. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0