Why do most christians not follow the 10 commandments?

[Kaon]

So you refuse to address the actual scriptures I posted? Your choice.

Please don't start that. I proposed the question in the first place, specifically where in the bible canon does God, or Christ say that we do not have to follow His commandments.

I asked for where Christ or God said that we could do this, and people have only given me words from men - the arguments even contradict what God Himself says.


Since no one has been able to show me the place where God gives us permission to be relieved of obedience, then I am going with God in that we are expected to be obedient to His Law. But, I am genuinely asking where God ever said we were relieved of obedience to His laws. If anyone can show that to me (where [the Word of] God Himself said it) then I am all ears. But I am not going to listen to men - even if they are spiritual rockstars - if they seem to contradict the word of God.

I don't actually believe the prophets and apostles ever say we are relieved of our responsibility to be obedient to God. Not even Paul.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Please don't start that. I proposed the question in the first place, specifically where in the bible canon does God, or Christ say that we do not have to follow His commandments.

I asked for where Christ or God said that we could do this, and people have only given me words from men - the arguments even contradict what God Himself says.


Since no one has been able to show me the place where God gives us permission to be relieved of obedience, then I am going with God in that we are expected to be obedient to His Law. But, I am genuinely asking where God ever said we were relieved of obedience to His laws. If anyone can show that to me (where [the Word of] God Himself said it) then I am all ears. But I am not going to listen to men - even if they are spiritual rockstars - if they seem to contradict the word of God.

I don't actually believe the prophets and apostles ever say we are relieved of our responsibility to be obedient to God. Not even Paul.

I guess that includes the 4th Commandment? So how do you keep it?

How about this one:
9 And God said to Abraham: “As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I actually was ignoring you, but for the sake of others looking in, I think this would be a good time to respond.


Anything that begins with, "And the LORD God said..." and "And, Christ said..." are the commandments of Christ. John 1:1.

Christ is the literal Word of God; His laws will not differ from His Father's laws. He doesn't speak on His own accord, but by His Father's. He is the Word of God in the avatar of a human body.

That is why it is asinine to believe there is a separation between Christ and God, and even more so that there is an alleged different law between them.

Are we still building arks?

13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14 Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch.

 

[bugkiller]

Please don't start that. I proposed the question in the first place, specifically where in the bible canon does God, or Christ say that we do not have to follow His commandments.

I asked for where Christ or God said that we could do this, and people have only given me words from men - the arguments even contradict what God Himself says.


Since no one has been able to show me the place where God gives us permission to be relieved of obedience, then I am going with God in that we are expected to be obedient to His Law. But, I am genuinely asking where God ever said we were relieved of obedience to His laws. If anyone can show that to me (where [the Word of] God Himself said it) then I am all ears. But I am not going to listen to men - even if they are spiritual rockstars - if they seem to contradict the word of God.

I don't actually believe the prophets and apostles ever say we are relieved of our responsibility to be obedient to God. Not even Paul.

Your question/proposal is so open you can reject any response.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

See post #427

Should that be #420?

bugkiller

 

[Kaon]

What did Jesus preach? What was His MAIN message? It is part of His commandments

Can you quote them? So far you haven't. Here is another hint:

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

here is another hint. If you keep the commandments of Jesus, you automatically keep the Father's. But if you only keep the Father's you are not keeping the main one that will save you.

THE FATHER AND CHRIST ARE ONE.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-19

Christ's point has nothing to do with changing the Law. The purpose of His ministry was outlined in John 3 - specifically 3:16.


Christ, and God are one. Christ was speaking on behalf of God - not Himself. God, therefore, would not contradict His Own Word, and tell us to stop being obedient to Him and just bask in the so called "law of love."

 

[1stcenturylady]

THE FATHER AND CHRIST ARE ONE.

But covenants aren't! And I see you are clueless to the commandments of Jesus. Do you believe they are the Ten Commandments? Just curious as you haven't said. You just keep doing the sidestep dance.

 

[1stcenturylady]

THE FATHER AND CHRIST ARE ONE.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-19

Christ's point has nothing to do with changing the Law. The purpose of His ministry was outlined in John 3 - specifically 3:16.


Christ, and God are one. Christ was speaking on behalf of God - not Himself. God, therefore, would not contradict His Own Word, and tell us to stop being obedient to Him and just bask in the so called "law of love."

You still don't know what the commandments of the New Covenant are.

Are the Ten Commandments going to make anyone righteous?

 

[Hank77]

Should that be #420?

bugkiller

It keeps changing? Now it's showing 418. Your post was 2 hrs. ago on my time.

 

[Kaon]

You still don't know what the commandments of the New Covenant are.

Are the Ten Commandments going to make anyone righteous?

God's Law does Not change.

Christ vindicates our salvation.

It is a seemingly curious paradox - until you realize GOD AND CHRIST ARE ONE. Moreover, Christ spoke completely on behalf of God.

The Most High God isn't going to contradict Himself and tell us we no longer have to follow His commandments.

 

[Kaon]

I am going to respectfully bow out of this thread.

 

[1stcenturylady]

God's Law does Not change.

Christ vindicates our salvation.

It is a seemingly curious paradox - until you realize GOD AND CHRIST ARE ONE. Moreover, Christ spoke completely on behalf of God.

The Most High God isn't going to contradict Himself and tell us we no longer have to follow His commandments.

Following the Ten Commandments are easy. It is the commandments of the New Covenant that are harder without help.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I am going to respectfully bow out of this thread.

I don't blame you one bit.

 

[Hank77]

God Bless

 

[Copperhead]

Romans 3:20 (NKJV) Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:21 (NKJV) But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets

Romans 3:28 (NKJV) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV) knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Galatians 2:21 (NKJV) I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Now James seems to suggest that man is justified not only by faith, but by works. But what are those works? "works" is interchangeable with "fruits" in the Greek. Do a comparison in the extended Strong's Concordance of the Greek G2041 Ergos (works) and G2590 Karpos (fruit). They both suggest efforts. And what are those fruits?....

James 2:24 (NKJV) You see then that a man is justified by works (Efforts or Fruit), and not by faith only.

James 2:18 (NKJV) But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works (fruit or efforts).” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NKJV) But the fruit (efforts or works) of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

 

[bugkiller]

God's Law does Not change.

Christ vindicates our salvation.

It is a seemingly curious paradox - until you realize GOD AND CHRIST ARE ONE. Moreover, Christ spoke completely on behalf of God.

The Most High God isn't going to contradict Himself and tell us we no longer have to follow His commandments.

God does not contradict Himself, but you do.

You can come back anytime you wish.

bugkiller

 

[Copperhead]

I know about feigned, or even false humility, particularly because I get accused of it often. If this is your intimation, then I am not offended, although I would hope you would come to realize someone (not even speaking about myself necessarily) can have fiery zeal for God, and truly be humble(d) before Him. I am zealous for Him because I should have been dead several times over in my life if it wasn't for Him saving me, and He has taught me how to be a man of God since I was a child. He never left me, which is phenomenal considering the family I come from. It isn't false for me, but I can understand if you believe I am coming as that type of cliche messenger.

What made you think what I posted was directed at you?

Look, I can understand how it could make some feel more like they are pleasing God by adhering to laws written on stone. It has been the standard playbook since long before Yeshua was born. It is inherent to man's character to feel we need to have some part in either being made righteous or maintaining it by following certain liturgical prescriptions. it is extremely difficult for many to grasp that eternal life is a free gift. The price has been paid in full, once and for all. Nothing we can do, and it is an insult to God if we try, because that would say we don't think Yeshua's death was sufficient. All one has to do is claim that free gift by claiming Yeshua and putting one's life in the hands of the Him who paid the penalty. His proclamation at His death was.... paid in full... tetelestai.

And some confuse justification... being made righteous before God... with sanctification... being set apart to God. And confusing the two can lead to ideas of having to do certain things to maintain that justification, as if it can be taken away.

And therein lies another misconception. That justification is conditional or has to be maintained. The payment for our salvation was made, once and for all. Not some sort of "if you step out of line just one little bit it will be taken away". We can lose out on rewards, due to a lack of faithful service, but the justification has nothing to do with our ability to maintain it. That is His responsibility. If eternal life can be taken away, then it wasn't eternal, nor was the price paid in full. That would imply that Yeshua lied on the cross at His death.

Since it was paid in full, when we accept Yeshua we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, set apart as His own property, and it frees us for the fruits (works) of the Spirit....

Romans 6:22 (NKJV) But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NKJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

 

[Truth Lover]

I can't seem to find a single christian who follows the sabbath and I am not understanding why?

Jesus was Jew, he lived as a Jew, prayed as one in the Jewish synagogues, observed all Jewish holy days and traditions and he had said "obey my laws" which was referring to the 10 commandments. So guys, what possible reason does any christian have not to observe the sabbath please?

On Sunday, we, as did t

he first Christians, ​

celebrate Christ's resurrection. As John said in Rev 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day,..." He was seeing the visions on a Sunday.
Paul in Colossians 2:16-23, Romans, and Galatians emphasizes that we are saved by faith in Jesus, not "works of the law." He means that we are not bound to obey the 613 Jewish laws about circumcision, dietary laws, feasts, etc.

 

[Kaon]

I bowed out of this thread but I had to respond here. This is nothing new; I have said the same thing in this thread before.

Spoiler

What made you think what I posted was directed at you?

Because humans can be passive aggressive, and I wanted to let you know if that was your intimation, I was not offended.

Look, I can understand how it could make some feel more like they are pleasing God by adhering to laws written on stone. It has been the standard playbook since long before Yeshua was born. It is inherent to man's character to feel we need to have some part in either being made righteous or maintaining it by following certain liturgical prescriptions.

That is not what I am talking about. Being obedient to God should be an innate characteristic of His Children, because what parent calls a flagrantly disobedient child, or a child that ignores their rules their child?

Obedience to God isn't about feeling good or justified; it is about being His child. Which of His children does He allow to be disobedient to Him, and still receive the Kingdom?

it is extremely difficult for many to grasp that eternal life is a free gift. The price has been paid in full, once and for all. Nothing we can do, and it is an insult to God if we try, because that would say we don't think Yeshua's death was sufficient. All one has to do is claim that free gift by claiming Yeshua and putting one's life in the hands of the Him who paid the penalty. His proclamation at His death was.... paid in full... tetelestai.

Christ paid the price for our transgressions so that we do not have to go to hell as per Universal Law of God. Christ did not pay the price for us to stop being obedient to the Most High God. That is against everything Christ said. Being obedient to our Father as He was is what He preached. The prophets preached obedience and abiding in the commandments of God. The apostles and disciples of Christ never preached against being obedient to God. And, if they did, then they are liars.

And some confuse justification... being made righteous before God... with sanctification... being set apart to God. And confusing the two can lead to ideas of having to do certain things to maintain that justification, as if it can be taken away.

How can you be righteous and you do not follow the commandments of God? Not one time did God ever say His commandments are void. Man did.

And therein lies another misconception. That justification is conditional or has to be maintained. The payment for our salvation was made, once and for all. Not some sort of "if you step out of line just one little bit it will be taken away". We can lose out on rewards, due to a lack of faithful service, but the justification has nothing to do with our ability to maintain it. That is His responsibility. If eternal life can be taken away, then it wasn't eternal, nor was the price paid in full. That would imply that Yeshua lied on the cross at His death.

No one said anything about "sinning/falling short" and losing your gift of eternal life. This is the juxtaposition of Christ's sacrifice and our call to remain obedient to the Most High God:

We are obedient not because we trying to justify our salvation, we are obedient because through Christ, we have been saved and bought for a price so much so that if we come to repentance, we are forgiven and made new.
​

We are never expected to ignore God's rules; faith without works is dead. Neither God, nor [the Word of] God ever said that the commandments of God are void, and that we should not strive for perfection always. You strive for perfection by striving following the commandments of God - all of them. Sanctification is the point in which you are refined as much as possible in this "old wine skin" before you put on a new one.

Since it was paid in full, when we accept Yeshua we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, set apart as His own property, and it frees us for the fruits (works) of the Spirit....

Romans 6:22 (NKJV) But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NKJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Are slaves disobedient to their masters? The ox knows its master, but the son of man doesn't. We make excuses and conditions for our disobedience, and then have the audacity to believe we will share in the same reward as those who crucify their flesh every day, and meditate in the commandments of the Most High?

Where did God ever say we do not have to be obedient to Him? There is a sealing, but we have to actually be born of spirit to be considered. There have been strong delusion that have trapped man before, and this (that we don't have to be obedient to God) may be another major one.

 

[bugkiller]

I bowed out of this thread but I had to respond here. This is nothing new; I have said the same thing in this thread before.

Spoiler

Because humans can be passive aggressive, and I wanted to let you know if that was your intimation, I was not offended.



That is not what I am talking about. Being obedient to God should be an innate characteristic of His Children, because what parent calls a flagrantly disobedient child, or a child that ignores their rules their child?

Obedience to God isn't about feeling good or justified; it is about being His child. Which of His children does He allow to be disobedient to Him, and still receive the Kingdom?



Christ paid the price for our transgressions so that we do not have to go to hell as per Universal Law of God. Christ did not pay the price for us to stop being obedient to the Most High God. That is against everything Christ said. Being obedient to our Father as He was is what He preached. The prophets preached obedience and abiding in the commandments of God. The apostles and disciples of Christ never preached against being obedient to God. And, if they did, then they are liars.



How can you be righteous and you do not follow the commandments of God? Not one time did God ever say His commandments are void. Man did.



No one said anything about "sinning/falling short" and losing your gift of eternal life. This is the juxtaposition of Christ's sacrifice and our call to remain obedient to the Most High God:

We are obedient not because we trying to justify our salvation, we are obedient because through Christ, we have been saved and bought for a price so much so that if we come to repentance, we are forgiven and made new.
​

We are never expected to ignore God's rules; faith without works is dead. Neither God, nor [the Word of] God ever said that the commandments of God are void, and that we should not strive for perfection always. You strive for perfection by striving following the commandments of God - all of them. Sanctification is the point in which you are refined as much as possible in this "old wine skin" before you put on a new one.




Are slaves disobedient to their masters? The ox knows its master, but the son of man doesn't. We make excuses and conditions for our disobedience, and then have the audacity to believe we will share in the same reward as those who crucify their flesh every day, and meditate in the commandments of the Most High?

Where did God ever say we do not have to be obedient to Him? There is a sealing, but we have to actually be born of spirit to be considered. There have been strong delusion that have trapped man before, and this (that we don't have to be obedient to God) may be another major one.

Glad to see you still read the thread.

Beg your pardon but your spoiler says - Being obedient to our Father as He was is what He preached. The prophets preached obedience and abiding in the commandments of God.

Is this not keeping the national law (as said elsewhere in the forum) given law to Israel? I take it as a blatant call to Judaism. Christians have and follow a new covenant which does not include the law of the covenant given to Israel. Jer 31:31-33, with emphasis on v 32.

This was also found in your spoiler - How can you be righteous and you do not follow the commandments of God? Not one time did God ever say His commandments are void.

The same reference to Jeremiah should suffice, but You also need to look at and consider LK 16:16, 22:20; Jn 1:17, 3:16-18, 5:24, chapter 10 and 15:10 for starters. I can also refer you to a few passages Paul (one of God's chosen vessels) that say out right no to the law given to Israel for any reason. My reason is it is not the covenant Christians are obligated to provable with the passages I referenced.

bugkiller