John Helpher

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Did you google “I said it, I was wrong, and I apologize” .

Why would I? It's your claim. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'd just like to know where you got your information. Can't you post your source here and if not, why not?

Trump is on record boasting that he has nothing to apologize for. Maybe he changed his mind in this one particular case, but Trump is also on record saying that he thinks it's good business to tell people what they want to hear. If there really was an apology, I'd say his overall behavior suggests he was only doing it because he thought he had to, to make himself look more respectable just before the 2016 election.
 
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creslaw

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Why would I? It's your claim. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'd just like to know where you got your information. Can't you post your source here and if not, why not?

Trump is on record boasting that he has nothing to apologize for. Maybe he changed his mind in this one particular case, but Trump is also on record saying that he thinks it's good business to tell people what they want to hear. If there really was an apology, I'd say his overall behavior suggests he was only doing it because he thought he had to, to make himself look more respectable just before the 2016 election.
I said google it because you can take your pick from over half a million sites!

The fact you do not know about this comment is indicative of a one sided approach to all things Trump ... and explains your attempt to discredit his apology. My friend it is you who should apologize for making false accusations such as "staunchly opposed to recognizing such behavior as wrong", "he doesn't recognize any wrong doing", etc.
 
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creslaw

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So the question was asked why do evangelicals support Trump. The following will give many reasons. I know some here don't care much for Kenneth Copeland. Get over that for the time and listen to what his guest Michele Bachmann former Senator who actual ran for the President has to say.

I think this provides at least some good food for thought. Some Christians really think they know why they shouldn't support Trump. Are they ignorant of some things however?

Michelle Bachmann makes very good points about religious liberty & abortion which I think are two of the major motivating factors in encouraging Christians to vote for a Republican president. (... and I'm one of those who think Copeland is a bit hard to take some times :)
 
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John Helpher

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I said google it because you can take your pick from over half a million sites!

If all those sources exist, then it should be easy to provide the information. But, you're not doing that so...
 
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Bobber

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Michelle Bachmann makes very good points about religious liberty & abortion which I think are two of the major motivating factors in encouraging Christians to vote for a Republican president. (... and I'm one of those who think Copeland is a bit hard to take some times :)
And I think even Copeland would say set aside whether you care for me or not in usual times. Listen to what Michelle Bachmann has to say in the various broadcast they had that week. I think it provides good solid reasons why a Christian should strongly consider voting for Trump.
 
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creslaw

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creslaw

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And I think even Copeland would say set aside whether you care for me or not in usual times. Listen to what Michelle Bachmann has to say in the various broadcast they had that week. I think it provides good solid reasons why a Christian should strongly consider voting for Trump.
I have taken to saying "voting for a Republican president" rather than "voting for Trump" because inevitably you will be accused of condoning his character flaws. Even so, I think Trump is falsely accused many times by those who would "trap him in his words" (Matthew 22:15) by taking his comments out of context and only quoting part of what he said. I can understand those with political motives doing so, but I am saddened when Christians do this also.
 
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Albion

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Think about what you're trying to justify right now. You say he condemned them, while at the same time he said they are good.
No, I said that he distinguished between two. In other words, between Antifa and the Christian Nationalists (which he named) on the one hand and, on the other, people who had simply come to town because they felt strongly, either pro or con, about the issue of removing memorials.

Remember the recent debate? He was asked to clearly denounce white supremacy and he stumbled through it until he finally put the issue back onto the moderator....
and you are wrong about that, too. He answered immediately and unequivocally, but the moderator was talking over him. Then he answered it a second time. This, I assume you are characterizing as a ''stumble." LOL
 
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John Helpher

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As you are reluctant to check your accusation (something I suggest all Christians should do) I will pick one of the over half million sites you could have accessed.
Donald Trump releases video statement, apologizes for vulgar recording | fox8.com

He starts out by claiming that he's not perfect. But, I think we all know that when a problem is pointed out and someone says, "Hey, I'm not perfect", they're trying to diminish the problem. Like, of course they are not perfect. No one said they are. Why is he making an issue of not being perfect when the whole point is that he's meant to be taking responsibility for a problem?

Thanks for posting the source, creslaw. I watched it and you are right that he says he was wrong. Buuuut, he made a lot of other comments which come across as justifications. For example, he mentions that this happened a long time ago, but why does that matter? Was he wrong for saying it or not? Imagine saying to Jesus something like, "Okay, okay Jesus, sure I was wrong, but, c'mon, that was a long time ago!" I doubt he'd be impressed.

He also distances himself from responsibility by referring to his comments as, "the words released today", as though they are not his words. When someone is genuinely remorseful, they will not insert these subtle suggestions of distance and equivocations about who said what.

He then spends the next 30 seconds boasting about how good he is and how well others think of him.

Then, he totally destroys his previous apology by saying this issue is really just meant to be a distraction from how great he really is! Here's his exact words: "We're living in the real world. This [i.e. my comments boasting about sexually assaulting women] is nothing more than a distraction from the important issues we're facing today [i.e. his election]." This makes the apology pointless and demonstrates that he was only apologizing as damage control. He's not sorry at all; to him this issue is just an annoyance where he must pretend to maintain the veneer of respectability. This is proved out where, four years later, his attitude toward women is much the same.

He then goes on to bash his political rivals which makes it even more clear that the whole thing is just a damage-control publicity stunt. He's not sorry at all even if he did speak the correct words, or, as Jesus put it, quoting Isiah, "This people draw near to me with their lips, but their heart is far from me".
 
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John Helpher

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and you are wrong about that, too. He answered immediately and unequivocally, but the moderator was talking over him. Then he answered it a second time. This, I assume you are characterizing as a ''stumble." LOL

Wow, you must have watched an edited version which makes his response appear quicker than it was because, in the actual debate, he equivocated a lot and even then not only did not not condemn them, he called out to them to stand by! Would you mind posting the source for the video which gave you the impression that trump condemned these white supremacist nationalists immediately and unequivocally?

From the footage I saw, it takes the moderator 23 seconds to fully form the question and then Trump Immediately equivocates. Here's what he says just as the question is being finished: "Sure I'm willing to do that, BUT, I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing. "

He gives the impression that he's willing to condemn these racists, but he doesn't. He immediately pivots with a "but" to some other topic. Can you see that? If you loan me money and then ask me to pay it back and I say, "I'm willing to do it, but what about the money you owe those other people", will you believe that I just paid you the money I owe you? No, of course not, because you're not a fool, and yet that's exactly what you seem to have done in this situation with Trump. That's because you really are justifying him. You're covering for his unwillingness to be clear about his reliance on white supremacists for political support.

Biden and the mod continue asking him to be clear and Trump then says "I'm willing to do anything for peace", which again is an equivocation. The mod rightly responds, "Then do it", because it's clear that Trump is avoiding the issue. He's being cornered on an issue that he wants to remain vague and confusing.

Biden then follows the mod's lead and says, "Do it; say it!" And there's this long pause where you can see Trump realizing that he's cornered so he pivots again to a non-issue and says, "Why do you want me to call them!"

Can't you see how this is an equivocation? What they are called has already been made clear; white surpemacists. Trump knows this, so he's stalling for time by not only pretending that he doesn't understand what's being asked of him, but also by putting the ball back in the mod's court by suggesting this is just something the mod is making up on his own (i.e. what do you want me to call them?).

But still, the mod clarifies again by saying, "White supremacists" and you can see Trump panicking. Then Biden chimes in with "proud boys" and immediately Trump says, "Proud boys, stand back and stand by".

In his panic he accidentally blurted out his real feelings. He was anxious that all the pressure being piled on to him might give his supporters the wrong impression and he needed to do something dramatic to be sure he didn't lose their support, so he told them to stand by.

He did the opposite of denounce them! And, sure enough, the proud boys then boasted about Trump's support and confirmed that they were, indeed, ready to be his personal militia if he chose to call on them.

Later, in an interview, when Trump was asked about the proud boys, he pretended not to know who they were.

How is it possible that you are so blinded by him that you can't see what's obvious to the rest of us? How can you still keep supporting this guy? The economy, right? You're willing to overlook all these glaring problems because you believe Trump will inevitably put money in your pocket.

Sad.
 
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John Helpher

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I have taken to saying "voting for a Republican president" rather than "voting for Trump" because inevitably you will be accused of condoning his character flaws.

Yes, of course. That's what a vote is; an agreement for this person to represent you. Why would you be so reluctant to support someone while at the same time distance yourself from that person? Because, as horrid as he is, you still believe he'll put money in your pocket via some kind of economic scheme.
 
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Vanellus

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And I think even Copeland would say set aside whether you care for me or not in usual times. Listen to what Michelle Bachmann has to say in the various broadcast they had that week. I think it provides good solid reasons why a Christian should strongly consider voting for Trump.

Is that the same Michele (One l) Bachmann who sought the Republican nomination in 2011/12?
Might she be a bit biased?
 
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Albion

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Wow, you must have watched an edited version which makes his response appear quicker than it was because, in the actual debate, he equivocated a lot and even then not only did not not condemn them, he called out to them to stand by!
Whether or not you want to believe it, that is exactly what happened.

I presume that you can dig up a video of the debate somewhere and verify it for yourself, if you are interested.
 
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Bobber

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Is that the same Michele (One l) Bachmann who sought the Republican nomination in 2011/12?
Might she be a bit biased?

Sure. She was a very well known Congress woman and worked in the Senate. But what does bias have anything to do with anything. Question is, is she providing an valid case for what would or should cause one to vote for Trump.
 
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John Helpher

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I presume that you can dig up a video of the debate somewhere and verify it for yourself, if you are interested.

Yes, that's what I just did in the same post that you just quoted from me (post #91). Did you read that post? What you say happened is not at all what actually happened. I went nearly line-by-line, using actual quotes from Trump. Do you have a response to that information?

One of the hallmarks of Trump support is the ignoring of reality and I think this exchange is evidence of that. Or, as one official put it; "They are impervious to reason".
 
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Albion

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Yes, that's what I just did in the same post that you just quoted from me (post #91). Did you read that post? What you say happened is not at all what actually happened. I went nearly line-by-line, using actual quotes from Trump. Do you have a response to that information?.

I know exactly what was said.

So if you think otherwise--and demand an explanation from me--I'd have to assume one of several things happened.

Either you have a text version of the spoken words (created by I don't know who) that is inaccurate (whereas I watched and heard the actual exchange)...

or else you are only repeating a story given by some other person, as I suspect was also what accounted for the misinformation given in the case of the Charlottesville incident. So, that's the response.
 
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Fantine

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This is directed to Trump supporters of all.faiths.

Is it right to make a deal with the devil to achieve what you believe to be holy outcomes?

Did Jesus deal with Satan when he fasted in.the desert?

If you can't recognize evil in a person who shouts it with flashing neon lights, how will.you ever recognize the subtle ones?

Pray for discernment.
 
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timothyu

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Is it right to make a deal with the devil to achieve what you believe to be holy outcomes?
I'm sorry but the same is being said about the other side and what we are seeing on the streets. Christians can only find what they are taught in the Kingdom and can only expect to live it individually. The world of man is no substitute..
 
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