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Why do creationists insist that the theory of evolution is inherently atheistic?

verysincere

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Of course it's not religion, mythology is something that happens when you lose your religion.

What is your justification for arbitrarily redefining words? Your statement is absurd.


Back to begging the question of proof, it's a nice change from the ad hominems.
You are also abusing the proper definition of ad hominem. Confusion results when you decide to assign your own personal and arbitrary definitions to standard terms.


Now for the equivocation, science isn't synonymous with the a priori assumption of universal common descent by exclusively naturalistic means.
Correct. There was never an "a priori assumption of universal common descend." Common descent was a RESULT and CONCLUSION after examination of overwhelming quantities of evidence.

Methodological naturalism is how science works---and is part of the very definition of modern science as established by such God-affirming pioneers of science as Isaac Newton.

I have yet to see a Creationist that was opposed to Mendelian genetics for one simple reason, Creationism is not opposed to science or evolutionary biology in the proper sense of those terms.
I've never seen anyone claim that Creationists oppose ALL science. Indeed, even many of the scientific concepts which young earth creationist used to deny are now accepted by many of the leaders of the YEC movement in the U.S. You can even read lists of "Fellow creationists: Please don't use these arguments any more" on Ken Ham's AiG website.

Not once have I seen a theistic evolutionist willing to take a stand on the Scriptures.
Then you really need to open your eyes and get out more. If you've ever read my posts on ChristianForums, you've observed a TE taking strong stands on the scriptures.

Instead they want to demean and ostracize anyone who dares affirm the foundational doctrine of Creation.
Just as some pretend that "evolutionist" is a synonym for "evil atheist", you choose to redefine "theistic evolutionist" into some sort of cartoon caricature stereotype existing only in your imagination. SFS posted on this topic and how you have a long history of straw man fabrication. Why do you have such a virulent contempt for many of your own Christian brethren? ("Theistic evolutionist" describes a very broad spectrum of beliefs----including Jewish and Muslim TE as well as Christians. And even among Christian theistic evolutionists, they run the gamut from verbal plenary inspiration inerrantists to those you would consider theologically liberal. So why cherry-pick particular examples as if ALL TE's held such beliefs? Yes, we all know why you do that.)

Those nested hierarchies are zoological categories largely organized for convenience.
No. They are not mere convenient descriptions. They are REALITIES which God created in his biosphere. And he filled that creation with answers to our questions---but you choose to deny what God has clearly revealed to us. That is your right but don't pretend that any informed Christian is going to agree with you.
Genomics has demonstrated that the human genome is far more divergent then was predicted or could be expected.
Genomics has been a slam dunk for reaffirming yet again the reality of nested hierarchies. Those who lie and say that The Theory of Evolution is not falsifiable ignore the fact that attempts at falsification take place daily, every time the evidence is examined. Genome mapping held the potential to debunk nested hierarchies (and The Theory of Evolution itself, theoretically) but instead it provided EVEN MORE confirmation! Need I review the countless examples where genome maps revealed EXACTLY what The Theory of Evolution had predicted long before?

Which leads me to a very serious question, if we are so much alike in our respective genomes why do so many evolutionists lie about the divergence between the Chimpanzee and Human genomes?
They don't. And they could just as easily ask why you lie? (What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.)
Nonsense.
Would you like for me to respond in kind?

God is not examined by science and God is not outside the parameters of science. God is altogether other which is called the asiety or utter independence of God. While God is separate from the created universe God's glory and divine revelation transcends the natural world.
I would be fascinated to hear an explanation of your self-contradicting statements of how God is NOT outside of the parameters of science and yet is transcendent and not examined by science. Which is it? It almost sounded like your agreed with Newton's methodological naturalism---but then you said you don't.
 
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verysincere

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God is not subject to science, so trying to find scientific evidence of God is a waste of time.

As Dr. Francis Collins and many others have said, "If you can come up with a God-detection-device, we will start using it. Until then, God is not subject to study by the scientific method."
 
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AV1611VET

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God is not subject to science, so trying to find scientific evidence of God is a waste of time.

Yup ...

John 7:34 Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.
 
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AV1611VET

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As Dr. Francis Collins and many others have said, "If you can come up with a God-detection-device, we will start using it. Until then, God is not subject to study by the scientific method."

As AV1611VET says, until you can come up with a machine that can do this:

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

... you can take your science demands elsewhere.
 
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Split Rock

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That's because:

1. You can't see what you're testing. You assume you are looking at n-years of history, but that is something only God can do.
This makes no sense. We can see rocks. We can see impact craters. We can see pillow lava. We can see marks left by glacier movement. We can see islands formed by volcanism. Also, we make no assumptions about "n-years" of history. In reality, the original assumption back in the 1700s-1800s was of a realitively short time scale. You want only God to be able to tell us how long the earth has been around, because you are convinced he has told you.

2. You assume uniformitarianism, when in fact, the Bible espouses catastrophism.
Unirformitarianism includes vulcanism, earthquakes, impacts, tsunamis, etc. Disasters are a part of modern geology. We assume the same natural processes occurred in the past, as they do today. But we are talking about what happened after creation, so that should not be an issue.

As I indicated earlier, you only have one thousand years or so to cover: The Flood, The Ice Age, the 44 known large impacts (meteor, comet) with earth, the formation of huge volcanic deposits (Deccan and Siberian traps), the formation of volcanic island chains (Hawaaii) and seamount chains, the weathering of mountain ranges like the Appalacians in the USA, the breakup of Pangea, etc., etc.
List of impact craters on Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Deccan Traps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Siberian Traps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

None of which (or few) which occurred at the same time even by straigraphy alone. Even worse for arguments based on scripture, none of which are even mentioned to have occurred at all according to the bible (excpet the flood, which there is conversely no physical evidence for).

So... how is it possible that these events all occurred within the one thousand years that your timeframe allows?
 
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AV1611VET

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This makes no sense.
Ya, I know ... you guys are good at saying that.
We can see rocks.
So can I.
We can see impact craters.
So can I.
We can see pillow lava.
So can you.
We can see marks left by glacier movement.
So can I.
We can see islands formed by volcanism.
Interesting verb tense used; was that a faux pas?
Also, we make no assumptions about "n-years" of history.
Only that you can see it ... right?
 
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Split Rock

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Split Rock

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Ya, I know ... you guys are good at saying that.

So can I.

So can I.

So can you.

So can I.

Interested verb tense used; was that a faux pas?

Only that you can see it ... right?

Tell me one thing... what physical evidence would convince you that your man-made hypothesis of Embedded Age is wrong?
 
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AV1611VET

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The Hawaiian island/seamount chain is being created by vulcanism as we speak.
Groovy.

So I'm supposed to believe Eden (Pangaea) was created that way as well?

I can watch a tadpole turn into a frog (via time dilation); but that certainly doesn't mean I'm watching evolution in progress, does it?

I vaguely remember something about a volcano (Pitcarin, I think it was) coming up in South America somewhere ... practically overnight.
 
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Loudmouth

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Making a list of other things you are wrong about does not cover up the previous things you are wrong about.
 
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Split Rock

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Groovy.

So I'm supposed to believe Eden (Pangaea) was created that way as well?
No necessarily. I am only talking about the Hawaiian island chain right now.

I can watch a tadpole turn into a frog (via time dilation); but that certainly doesn't mean I'm watching evolution in progress, does it?
Of course not.. individuals do not evolve... populations do. (but you knew that)


I vaguely remember something about a volcano (Pitcarin, I think it was) coming up in South America somewhere ... practically overnight.
Was a chain of islands created overnight following the movement of a tectonic plate over a hotspot? Did the island all have rocks with radionucleotide signatures corresponding to different ages in line with their distance from the most resent vulcanism?

Also... please answer this question:

Tell me one thing... what physical evidence would convince you that your man-made hypothesis of Embedded Age is wrong?

You can say "none," if that is the answer... its OK.
 
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AV1611VET

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Making a list of other things you are wrong about does not cover up the previous things you are wrong about.

Fine -- I'll look it up, myself.

QV please:
The volcano is unique in the fact that its evolution from creation to extinction was witnessed, observed and studied by human beings.

SOURCE
 
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AV1611VET

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Tell me one thing... what physical evidence would convince you that your man-made hypothesis of Embedded Age is wrong?

I have no idea.

I thought falsifiability is a component of the scientific method?

If so, in keeping with the fact that the creation week didn't involve science, I'll say "none."

Evidence can take a hike, but in this case, there's nothing to walk.
 
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RickG

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I have no idea.

I thought falsifiability is a component of the scientific method?

If so, in keeping with the fact that the creation week didn't involve science, I'll say "none."

Evidence can take a hike, but in this case, there's nothing to walk.

Quite frankly AV, I take your admonishment toward science the equivalent to racism.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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I admire your patience, Split rock. You're a better man than I.
 
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