Why Do Christians Want Creationism Taught In Public Schools?

Randall McNally · Jan 4, 2005

Clarity said:
The fact is that Evolution is still a theory with no hard concrete evidence to prove it and yet people are being brainwashed to believe that evolution is an accepted scietific truth which it clearly isn't. Darwins original book on the origin of the species does not conatin a single piece of evidence to back it up that is still accepted as evidence today in fact what darwin taught and what evolutionists think today are completely different.

None of the above is true. Morphological, genetic and molecular evidence all overwhelmingly support evolution. Darwin's Origin contained numerous examples - he was a well-traveled naturalist, after all. The major difference between evolution ca. 1870 and evolution ca. 2005 is the Modern Synthesis - the fusion of Darwinian evolution and genetics.

If you ask someone who believes in evolution is it scientifically true they would usually say yes but if you ask them what is the scientific evidence then they are never able to provide any,

Do I count as "someone"? Do they: www.talkorigins.org

most people blindly believe in evolution despite and do not know of any actual proof. There are still many scientists who do not believe in evolution and to explain away all the gaps scientists rely on random chance mutations which aren't terribly scientific.

Most are scientists with little or no training in relevant fields.

Darwin himself had no formal education in geology or paleontology, when he wrote his theory which was based on exactly these things

What does geology have to do with evolution? Don't give me the nonsense about how fossils are dated either.

"A proportion of favourable mutations of one in a thousand does not sound much but is generous, and a total of a million mutational steps sounds alot but is probably an understatement however let us take these figures as being reasonable estimates. With this proposition, but without any selection we would have to breed a million strains to get one containing two favourable mutations; up to a thousand to the millionth power to get one containing a million (1 with three million noughts after it)"
Julian Huxley evolution in action pg41

What relevance do you think that quote has to evolution as a whole? Do you even know what Huxley is talking about?

amonk · Jan 6, 2005

Christians want to take over the world as to the post question .

Corey · Jan 6, 2005

Dukey said:
its always been done that way....this nation was founded on christian principles

Please define which ones those are. No one else has. That seems to be a problem with those who claim this.

robot23 · Jan 6, 2005

The fact is that Evolution is still a theory with no hard concrete evidence to prove it and yet people are being brainwashed to believe that evolution is an accepted scietific truth which it clearly isn't. Darwins original book on the origin of the species does not conatin a single piece of evidence to back it up that is still accepted as evidence today in fact what darwin taught and what evolutionists think today are completely different.

If you ask someone who believes in evolution is it scientifically true they would usually say yes but if you ask them what is the scientific evidence then they are never able to provide any, most people blindly believe in evolution despite and do not know of any actual proof. There are still many scientists who do not believe in evolution and to explain away all the gaps scientists rely on random chance mutations which aren't terribly scientific.

nonsense
all of it

samUNit7 · Jan 6, 2005

Corey said:
Please define which ones those are. No one else has. That seems to be a problem with those who claim this.

concerning the claim that this nation was founded on Christian beliefs/ideals...

I agree that the Founding Fathers did base much of our nation's ideals on Christian beliefs. For example, observe the Pledge of Allegiance, which contains the phrase "under God" (which, unfortunately, is undergoing extremely heavy debate now). Also, it is absolutely no coincidence that Christianity is the leading religion in the United States, even in the absense of church-state separation AND the creation/immigration of other religions into the United States AND the common right to express beliefs freely. Lastly, our Founding Fathers were Christians; note the introduction to the Declaration of Independence: "

When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights [...]"

notice the references to God? the first document of our nation already contains references to God...there is no doubt that our Founding Fathers had this faith and wanted the United States to follow suit...

Thanks for your time, and I hope this is sufficient...~Sam

amonk · Jan 6, 2005

BRAINWASHED CREATIONIST GIBIRISH !!

America was founded on Christian principles ???

Anyone know where the American Indians fit into this , I didn't know they were Christians WoW talk about the dumbening down of a nation .

Proves that some people just don't understand there entire history when they are supposed to be EDUCATED by the American Education system .

Arikay · Jan 6, 2005

I don't think brainwashed, at 15 I don't expect him to have a complex understanding of americas history (I don't really expect adults to either).

Under God was not part of the original pledge and was a 20th century addition that was pushed by the Knights of Columbus during the fear of communism.

You will notice that it does not say Yahweh in the Declaration of Independence, only "creator" and "natures God" it is an assumption that that creator is the christian God. Hindu and deist God would fit well within that word, just as would an atheistic philosophy. You will notice that God is not mentioned at all (beyond a fancy way of saying A.D.) in the Constitution, which is the actual foundation of our country and superseded the Declaration of Independence once we gained independence.

Seperation of Church and state were not put in the constitution but was expressed multiple times by the founding fathers, many of which saw organized religions as a danger. The exact beliefs of the founding fathers are very debatable, but what we do know suggests it doesn't matter.

Randall McNally · Jan 6, 2005

samUNit7 said:
I agree that the Founding Fathers did base much of our nation's ideals on Christian beliefs. For example, observe the Pledge of Allegiance, which contains the phrase "under God" (which, unfortunately, is undergoing extremely heavy debate now).

You need to pay more attention in history class, young man.

1) The Pledge wasn't written until 1892.
2) It was written by a socialist.
3) "Under God" was not added until 1954.

amonk · Jan 6, 2005

#107 ,
Never to late to grow a brain , at 15 I was learning about American History and this was in AUSTRALIA., I did my project on the Pueblian (Pueblo) culture as I recalled , a complex understanding of History ?

All that complex stuff is what you learn in University i.e Anthropology , Archaeology .

It is standard to be tought quality education .

Clarity · Jan 7, 2005

nonsense
all of it

None of the above is true. Morphological, genetic and molecular evidence all overwhelmingly support evolution. Darwin's Origin contained numerous examples - he was a well-traveled naturalist, after all. The major difference between evolution ca. 1870 and evolution ca. 2005 is the Modern Synthesis - the fusion of Darwinian evolution and genetics.

I think this proves my point it is clear you blindly believe evolution without any knowledge of the supposed evidence.

Another question is
Why do evolutionists not want creationism taught in schools?
I think the reason is that if it was taught it would make people realise how flawed the theory of evolution is.

amonk · Jan 7, 2005

110 ,

CONTRADICTORY GIBIRISH !!!

I see you sidestepped the evidence on this post which clearly identified that 'creationist education ' is flawed, it takes a blind person to not see those flaws .

Your argument is pointless .

You mention
1) Why do evolutionists not want creationism taught in schools ?
2 ) I think the reason is that if it was taught it would make people realise how flawed the theory of evolution is.

Oh wait did you just ask why evolutionists do not want creationism in schools , Did I read clearly ....
Well your second point sums your fallacy quite clearly as the title states my point .

because ,
a ) You are not an evolutionary biologist
>Therefore you cannot finalize a logical conclusion based on your assumption .

b ) Darwins Origin of species is only just a theory such as the theory of gravity .
>Given the theory of gravity has been proven true , the theory of evolution has yet to be finalized through further research since newer advanced technologies are now able to aid in evolutionary studies .

Corey · Jan 7, 2005

samUNit7 said:
I agree that the Founding Fathers did base much of our nation's ideals on Christian beliefs.

Which would have been hard for them since they were Deists...

For example, observe the Pledge of Allegiance, which contains the phrase "under God" (which, unfortunately, is undergoing extremely heavy debate now).

Where is the Pledge in the Constitution? Others cover its origins in better detail already.

Also, it is absolutely no coincidence that Christianity is the leading religion in the United States, even in the absense of church-state separation AND the creation/immigration of other religions into the United States AND the common right to express beliefs freely.

Hello...the US was colonized initially by nations with a long history of Christianity. What do you expect?

Lastly, our Founding Fathers were Christians; note the introduction to the Declaration of Independence:

When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God [emphasis Corey's] entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights [...]"

notice the references to God? the first document of our nation already contains references to God...there is no doubt that our Founding Fathers had this faith and wanted the United States to follow suit...

Two things you need to learn. As you're 15, I doubt you've had your civics class yet...

1) Jefferson was NOT a Christian. He rewrote the BIble (the Jefferson Bible) to exclude all references to Jesus's divinity. He was a Deist. He believed in "nature's god." This is an entity that merely started the universe but did not intercede afterwards. Adams was a Unitarian for that matter. Madison was also a Deist.

2) The Constitution is our governing document.

Corey · Jan 7, 2005

Clarity said:
I think this proves my point it is clear you blindly believe evolution without any knowledge of the supposed evidence.

What? Considering that the poster mentions that EVERY. SINGLE. PIECE. OF. EVIDENCE. supports evolution as the origin of species, I think he has it covered. Do you have contradictory evidence? If you do, the Creation and Evolution forum would love to hear from you.

Another question is
Why do evolutionists not want creationism taught in schools?

Straw Man argument: creationism can be taught in comparative religion classes or private schools.

I think the reason is that if it was taught it would make people realise how flawed the theory of evolution is.

Right...and those flaws are what?

Randall McNally · Jan 7, 2005

Clarity said:
I think this proves my point it is clear you blindly believe evolution without any knowledge of the supposed evidence.

I'm no PhD, but I am a high school biology teacher. I figured this forum would not be the best place to go into so much detail. If you wish to challenge my knowledge, I invite you to head on over to the Creation & Evolution forum where I will gladly wipe the floor with you. Actually, Jet Black, Mechanical Bliss and others will beat you down and I'll probably just pick up the scraps, but whatever.

Doppelganger · Jan 7, 2005

samUNit7

I reason to differ with you. The practices of the "founding fathers" and pioneers were anything but Christian. Unless of course "love thy neighbor" only applies to your fellow Christian. If it was established by "Christian" morales, then the native Americans would not have been slaughtered or had their land stolen. The Chinese immigrants would have been treated better and the nation would not have the blood of the Salem Witch trials staining her hands. Of course, as one Christian said, "Look at all the good that has come out of it."

Sure... Spanish Conquistadores slaughtered native people by the thousands. They destroyed temples and books due to the people's unwillingness to bow down to the Church and feed the Conquistadore's thirst for gold.

To the OP: Religion has no business existing in the public school system. To force students to stand and recite a prayer at school, before sporting events, or at a graduation is offensive to non-Christians. If parents wish to have that, then they need to either home school or find a Christian based private school to send their children too.

tqpix · Jan 7, 2005

I used to want creationism taught in schools, but now I feel that people can learn about creationism themselves by reading the Bible. I do, however, want Christian principles to be taught in schools.

Doppelganger · Jan 7, 2005

tqpix said:
I used to want creationism taught in schools, but now I feel that people can learn about creationism themselves by reading the Bible. I do, however, want Christian principles to be taught in schools.

By all means, push for it. But only if it's a Christian school. In the US, forcing that on the public school system discriminates against non-Christian faculty and staff members. I am pretty sure that doing so would be a clear violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

robot23 · Jan 7, 2005

christian teachings belong in christian schools
to try to force everyone to accept christian teaching is arrogant

Sphere · Jan 7, 2005

Clarity said:
Why do evolutionists not want creationism taught in schools?

I think the reason is that if it was taught it would make people realise how flawed the theory of evolution is.

You're under the impression that if evolution was shown to be false(which likely, will not happen), then that automatically means creationism is the default-correct position? Wrong.

The reason why so many creationists spend time trying to disprove evolution, is because their own "belief" is too ridiculous to pursue in a scientific manner.

Just because you have a very warped interpretation of evolution, doesnt make it flawed. It means you perhaps need to learn about it, and see what it actually says.

fragmentsofdreams · Jan 7, 2005

Clarity said:
I think this proves my point it is clear you blindly believe evolution without any knowledge of the supposed evidence.

Another question is
Why do evolutionists not want creationism taught in schools?
I think the reason is that if it was taught it would make people realise how flawed the theory of evolution is.

No. Creationism shouldn't be taught in schools because it has no credibility as a scientific theory. Teaching it as if it was on the same level as evolution would create a false impression on students.

Why Do Christians Want Creationism Taught In Public Schools?

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