Unproven is the default position. The Bible will remain unproven until you can verify it. At this point it has little or no veracity, in the matter of it's claim to be the Word of God. I didn't have to remove it.LastMaxim said:
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Unproven is the default position. The Bible will remain unproven until you can verify it. At this point it has little or no veracity, in the matter of it's claim to be the Word of God. I didn't have to remove it.LastMaxim said:...nor does it remove it's veracity because you question it...
Just as wiccan is right havocHavoc said:Unproven is the default position. The Bible will remain unproven until you can verify it. At this point it has little or no veracity, in the matter of it's claim to be the Word of God. I didn't have to remove it.
okay, well then I'm not making any claims of truth I can't support either by being a christianHavoc said:Well since I'm not making any claims of truth I can't support, I don't have to worry about the fact that no religion has any proof of it's veracity, including yours.
Well, if a Christian believes that their beliefs are true, it requires them to believe that other beliefs that contradict theirs are not true.Havoc said:That's good. Many Christians try to make the claim that their religion is absolute truth and all other religions are wrong. That is a rather extraordinary claim considering their complete inability to support that claim.
I'm glad you are different.
What do you mean by thought life exactly? Are you saying that you can't have an imagination without Satan somehow coming into that?LastMaxim said:Now, games are a different matter al together, though they can have just as dire consequences. Our thought life is not so separate a thing as we are usually told it is. Jesus himself made some interesting statements about our 'thought life'. This too can open oneself up to the demonic realm. I actually had this happen, and it was very hard to remove that influence once it was there. The main problem was figuring out it WAS a problem in the first place.
Not quite. Just because someone does not believe in Jesus Christ does not mean that they aren't going to Heaven. Their God and Goddess could really be Jesus Christ and not Satan. Just because they don't call them Christ does not mean it is evil.Aaron11 said:Well, if a Christian believes that their beliefs are true, it requires them to believe that other beliefs that contradict theirs are not true.
Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. That's what I believe. If someone believes that there is another way to heaven, then I must think they are wrong.
There is a vast, vast difference between thinking that what you believe is true, and claiming to have absolute truth.Aaron11 said:Well, if a Christian believes that their beliefs are true, it requires them to believe that other beliefs that contradict theirs are not true.
Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. That's what I believe. If someone believes that there is another way to heaven, then I must think they are wrong.
You tried to show my statement wrong by saying that you could be saved by a god or goddess if it really was Jesus, but they just didn't know it. I don't know where you get this idea. However, I will grant you this just for the sake of argument. Even if people could go through a god or goddess that really was Jesus to get to heaven, they still would be going through Jesus. So how does that contradict what I said?Maria Mante said:Not quite. Just because someone does not believe in Jesus Christ does not mean that they aren't going to Heaven. Their God and Goddess could really be Jesus Christ and not Satan. Just because they don't call them Christ does not mean it is evil.
Maria Mante said:Their God and Goddess could really be Jesus Christ and not Satan.
Not everything that isn't called Christ is evil, I agree. Again, pencils are not called Christ and are not evil because of it.Maria Mante said:Just because they don't call them Christ does not mean it is evil.
This is really sad.Lizquests said:I know in some cases they do call upon the elements. What do the elements do? Nothing. Only God can decide what to do or not. Water can't make something happen, except maybe make your plants grow. LOL
and some of us weren't created in you're God's image...Lizquests said:Well right there, stating "and by Goddess", there is no Goddess. Just God himself. He should be all that we need in our life, instead of calling upon something dark and evil. Satan wants us to think that we are doing good by doing this, but really all it is doing is ruining our relationship with God.
These are my beliefs based on what I have read.
ananar23 said:Actually Lizquests its calling upon the elements in some cases. However, maybe they just think the spells are being answered by the configuration of elements; maybe its something darker. anyway, this is in no way condoning or condemning the pagan religion. it is a mere "what if" question. just speaking from past experiences.
God bless
There is a great difference between authenticity and veracity. Authenticity refers to the current version being an authentic translation of the original. Veracity refers to the contents being true. Comfort's book does a good job of showing the former, although many of his premises are debateable, but it does nothing to show the latter.Lizquests said:I am in the process of reading "The Origin of the Bible" by FF Bruce, JI Packer, Philip Comfort, and Carl FH henry. What I have read so far is giving some good evidence of the origin of the Bible and its authenticity. I would give some of the information on this, but it would probably be a really long post. If you are TRULY wanting to know about the authenticity, I would recommend reading this book.
This is a question aimed at the Christians who DO hate Wiccan and witches....and is not a blow at Christianity itselfblondie122189 said:I'm a witch, and I'd love to know what the heck it is that Christians dislike about us.
Pagan inmate accuses jail officials of
violating rights
Tuesday, December 30, 2003
By Paula Reed Ward, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
JOHNSTOWN -- A jail inmate has filed a federal lawsuit against Bedford County's sheriff and deputy warden, claiming they are violating his right to religious freedom.
Charles Risenburg, who's been in jail since April, practices Wicca, a form of paganism.
Bedford County Sheriff Gordon Diehl says the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections doesn't recognize Wicca, and he doesn't either. That means he does not have to meet Risenburg's requests for special meals or to have certain items -- such as oils, wands, magic books or Tarot cards -- in his
cell.
Initially, when Risenburg first arrived there, he was permitted to have some of those items, Diehl said.
"This guy has a history with us over the last nine or 10 months," he said. "It was just never enough. He just kept demanding more and more."
Finally, when a new deputy warden took over, the Wiccan items, including the books, were taken from Risenburg, who is serving a 23 1/2-month sentence for a probation violation.
"He said if it has spells in it, I'm not allowed to have it," Risenburg wrote in his claim filed in U.S. District Court in Johnstown earlier this month. "This is a major part of my religion."
But Diehl said some of the books included images that depicted torture scenes.
"These rituals can be used to intimidate other inmates," he said. "You have to do away with as many interruptions to the routine as possible."
Another of Risenburg's claims is that the kitchen staff will not prepare vegetarian meals for him.
"When you've got 150 inmates, to fix a special meal, it takes a lot of extra effort," said Diehl, who's just beginning his second term as sheriff. "It's not just because of personal choice. We're not the Hilton. We're not short-order cooks."
The jail offers special meals based on health needs or religious reasons, but, Diehl said, Wicca is not recognized by the state Department of Corrections.
According to Sue McNaughton, corrections press secretary, the epartment's prisons do not accommodate Wicca or any groups practicing it.
Individuals can practice it privately, though, in their own cells. They may have books and literature about Wicca, provided the materials pass a committee review, McNaughton said.
Any other items associated with the religion, such as Tarot cards or oils or wands, are prohibited.
But the Bedford County jail is not under state control and is responsible for setting its own guidelines.
Kelly Muzyczka, the former president of the Three Rivers Pagan Initiative, said she understands the jail's need for security, but she questions that as being the true motive behind Diehl's actions. Instead, she wonders if it's based on intolerance.
No one is sure how many Wiccans there are, though Muzyczka said she has heard numbers ranging from 3 percent to 20 percent of the population. She does know there are several hundred people on pagan e-mail lists in the Pittsburgh area.
Wicca is the most commonly known of the pagan religions and traces its roots back to traditional European folk magic.
Wiccans don't believe in the devil, and they don't practice animal sacrifice, despite popular mainstream stereotypes, Muzyczka said.
Many of them keep their beliefs private for fear of repercussions.
"There are still people who would lose their jobs and their families if they found out," said Muzyczka, who labels herself a nondenominational pagan.
But, just as a good Christian doesn't have to have a Bible to practice religion, neither does a Wiccan need the tools Risenburg's requested, she said.
"A Wiccan doesn't have to have those books or oils or Tarot cards to be a good Wiccan," Muzyczka said. "They're not required by the faith."
But, she added, she'd want the same repercussions for a Christian who was proselytizing and preaching to other inmates inappropriately.
"I'd want to know the situation was that kind of equivalent before they took his books away," she said.
She would like jail officials to prove they removed Risenburg's religious items strictly because of security reasons.
Justifying his actions, Diehl said he's been told Risenburg threatened to cast spells on other inmates and their families in the past.
"We'll do everything we can to be fair to him, but we're not going to take any extra steps," the sheriff said. "If they do have a true belief, we'll do anything we can to accommodate."
Paula Reed Ward can be reached at pward@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1455.
Link: http://www.postgazette.com/localnews/20031230wiccan1230p5.asp
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