Why do baptists think salvation is so easily attained?

[torcot]

You have to sincerely mean it.

I have come in on this conversation late so I didn't read all the comments but this single sentence struck me.

THIS IS FALSE!!! Salvation is of the Lord, it doesn't matter how much YOU do it is what he has already done. God saves, your sincerity means absolutely nothing to God. This puts all of the responsibility of your salvation on you. It places your assurance on you. Did you truly mean it? Were you sincere enough?

If you want to be saved, trust Christ with your salvation, all who seek salvation in Christ have found it.

 

[Keachian]

Finney overall was a good thing for Baptists even if his theology was questionabile he was a presbyterian evangelist not a theologin. He was one of the first evangelists to be heavily involved in the movement to end slavery and was professor and later president of Oberlin college the first American colleges to co-educate blacks and women with white men. He loved God and God used him.

Aside from whether it is factual or not what I don't see in that graph is whether or not the numerical growth is just pew warmers. It is not good for the Church if all the people there are just sitting there to stamp their ticket and get to heaven, God is not glorified in that at all.

 

[Setyoufree]

God is never fooled, this is the bottom line to why eternal life that was given is not lost.

All men were saved in the doing & dying of Christ, but not all will keep their faith in Christ.

1 Tim 4:10 "who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."

"If" is used for very hypothetical cases, and with a Hebrews reference it is for Jews trusting their laws for salvation rather than just Christ being the savior.

Paul is writing to Jewish believers:

Heb 3:3 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest....

Verse 12: See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

So these were Christian believers. What was the warning? Don't give up Christ.

Why would Paul go to all this trouble warning believers not to give up Christ if it wasn't possible? Makes no sense....

 

[Keachian]

All men were saved in the doing & dying of Christ, but not all will keep their faith in Christ.

Just a word of caution with this line of thinking as I see it if you set it up that all start with faith in Christ and believe that those who truly have faith in Christ can lose their faith, then there is no reason to continue to extol apostates to return, everyone who is not a Christian becomes an apostate and so on, this is part of the problem when it comes down to it in Islam, everyone is a Muslim to start with and then they are turned away and so commit shirk, of which it is quite justifiable to "execute" someone for in their theology.

 

[phoenixdem]

Can someone please explain this to me.

Do you really think that Jesus' death on the Cross for us is easy? God is gracious to those whom He loves. Christ provided the sacrificial lamb in His death. Our Father has said to us that we must believe, but He also gives us the faith to believe. He seals us with the Holy Spirit and Jesus will lose none of those whom God has Given Him. Is it easy? Then thank God that He has provided us with the "easy" way back to Him our to our salvation.

 

[Setyoufree]

...Jesus will lose none of those whom God has Given Him.

That's forced salvation. Salvation is a gift accepted through faith. If one draws back, then the gift of salvation is rejected.

Hebrews 10:6 For if we sin willfully (context: reject Christ) after we have received the knowledge of the truth (context - salvation in Christ alone), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?....35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: 37 “For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry. 38 Now the just by faith will live; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

A believer who gives up Christ goes back under law. To be under law means death - the 2nd death.

We must keep our faith in Christ. God will never force you to remain in Christ. If He did then all men would be saved because He would force His salvation on all because He does not practice partiality.

 

[Chuck70]

Do you really think that Jesus' death on the Cross for us is easy? God is gracious to those whom He loves. Christ provided the sacrificial lamb in His death. Our Father has said to us that we must believe, but He also gives us the faith to believe. He seals us with the Holy Spirit and Jesus will lose none of those whom God has Given Him. Is it easy? Then thank God that He has provided us with the "easy" way back to Him our to our salvation.

I like your Reply, phoenixdem! It is very sound. Watching the movie the Passion of Christ we would ponder on the word "easy". God bless...
Chuck

 

[Setyoufree]

Again, folks, we are once saved always saved as long as you keep your faith in Christ.

Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

[Setyoufree]

God will never force you to remain in Christ. If He did then all men would be saved because He would force His salvation on all because He does not practice partiality.

In other words God doesn't have favorites. Go to James 2:8 "If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin...

"Partiality" is sin. God cannot sin. It is impossible for God to sin because He has no sin in Him. Therefore God can't force some to be saved and others to be lost. That stinks of favoritism.

Matt 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

Your faith must endure until the day you die. God will never force salvation on you. It's free will.

 

[phoenixdem]

There is one thing that we can be sure of. If God calls a person to salvation that person is saved. If God has to use discipline on a believer, He certainly will do it. Whether you want to call it forced salvation or the sovereignty of God it matters little. No man can save himself with good works.

 

[SeventhValley]

Of course works are important because a tree that bears no fruit never had faith to begin with. So works won't save you but your faith is judged by works...it is a paradox.

Matthew 25:31-46

English Standard Version (ESV)

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[a] you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

James 2:11-17

English Standard Version (ESV)

11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

From Dr.Charles Stanley

The Companion of Faith

By Dr. Charles Stanley


1 Thessalonians 1:1-10
Only faith in the redemptive work of Jesus can bring us into right relationship with God; not even a profusion of good works can do that. (Ephesians 2:8-9) But "works" do have an important role—they are the steady companion of faith.
As Christ's followers, we're called to be His ambassadors: we are to testify that God has reconciled the world to Himself through His Son, who lived, died, and lives again! (2 Corinthians 5:14-20) Our personal responsibility is to reveal who God is by the way we live and the choices we make. God-honoring acts done in His way and timing are evidence that our convictions are genuine.
Faith without works is simply "dead" (James 2:17), but real faith is alive and consistently expressed through action. When we let ourselves be instruments in God's hands, He blesses the undeserving, strengthens the discouraged, provides for the needy, and offers saving grace to those in spiritual darkness. He rewards us richly when faith leads to obedient acts—we will not only see Him working; we will also grow closer to Him. Scripture says that our faith-filled actions will also put to shame those who are antagonistic toward Christ. (Titus 2:7-8) What a powerful combination—faith and works!
The depth of our faith is revealed through our conduct—not just in deeds that others observe, but also in actions we take when no one sees. (Matthew 6:1) God expects believers to be imitators of Jesus, pouring themselves into the lives of others whenever the Father asks.

 

[SeventhValley]

Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Short Definition: all, the whole, every kind of
Definition: all, the whole, every kind of.


It really dose not matter if all have been given faith or some. Either was through Foreknowledge or Predestination some will be saved others will not. Their faith will be known by their works.

 

[GISMYS]

WE ARE ALL ONE BREATH AWAY FROM ETERNITY! THINK!MIGHT TODAY BE YOUR LAST DAY ????Every day of our lives, we live one breath away from eternity. The most important question of life is: Am I ready to meet God?

If you are not, and you wish to acknowledge God as your Father through His Son, Jesus Christ, just pray this simple prayer and you’ll become a member of the family of God, with heaven as your eternal home.

Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and need your forgiveness. I believe that Jesus died for my sins. I am willing to turn away from my sin and live a godly life. I now invite Jesus Christ into my heart as my Lord and Savior. I am willing, with God’s help, from this day forward to follow Christ as Lord of my life. In Jesus’ name I pray. Amen.

At this moment, you have discovered the ultimate secret of being happy in an unhappy world. It’s knowing that God is your heavenly Father, that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, and that heaven is your eternal home!

 

[Hentenza]

Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Short Definition: all, the whole, every kind of
Definition: all, the whole, every kind of.


It really dose not matter if all have been given faith or some. Either was through Foreknowledge or Predestination some will be saved others will not. Their faith will be known by their works.

I will posit that all believers with saving faith do works but the works are done from salvation not for salvation. Some do more while some do less but all do good works out of their love for Christ.

Matt 13
3 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

 

[Hentenza]

Acts 17:31 For that he hath ordained a day, in which he shall deem the world in equity, in a man in which he ordained, and gave faith to all men, and raised him from death.

If God gave faith to all men, as you interpret this verse, then all men would be saved (universalism) but that is far from the biblical truth since some will not be saved (the wicked), therefore, your interpretation creates a contradiction (incongruity).

Matt. 25
46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[98cwitr]

^^^exactly

That's non-Biblical. God is a God of love, not a God force. If He forces some to be saved and rejects others God is practicing favoritism, which according to His own law is sin.

Go read John 6:37-44 and see that salvation is not of yourself, but my the Will of God, God cannot sin...He is righteous and He is also Just. Then go read Romans 9, where it says "It therefore does not depend on man's desires or efforts, but on God's mercy."

Acts 17:31
New International Version (NIV)
31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

But we have not seen (tangibly) the risen Christ, and so we live by faith. Therefore, the proper translations does not involve faith (Hebrews 11:1), but proof. Context is everything!

 

[Setyoufree]

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.


If you believe that God saves some and others He makes reprobates then you are attacking the assurance of salvation.

How? Because one doesn't really know if he has been elected by God and therefore he questions salvation in Christ alone.

 

[Keachian]

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.


If you believe that God saves some and others He makes reprobates then you are attacking the assurance of salvation.

How? Because one doesn't really know if he has been elected by God and therefore he questions salvation in Christ alone.

Strangely that was the problem I had before I accepted the Doctrines of Grace, I had no assurance of my salvation, but now I do

 

[Setyoufree]

Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on all!

Note: God can't have mercy on all if some are elected to be lost.

1 Tim 2:3 God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Note: God can't desire to have all saved if He elects some to be lost.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

Note: Grace comes to all men so they can believe and be saved - not just the so called elect.

John 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.

Note: Again, if God elects some to be lost "all men" becomes meaningless.

 

[Setyoufree]

Strangely that was the problem I had before I accepted the Doctrines of Grace, I had no assurance of my salvation, but now I do

But if you believe in election then how do you have assurance? How do you know you are saved? Maybe He didn't chose you? I'm just saying....