Why do Arminians...

[DeaconDean]

deleted as my comments will probably be considered "off-topic".

 

[DeaconDean]

see above

 

[bling]

Was God unaware it would happen?

That has a lot to do with how time works for God.

God has always been “aware” of everything that has and will happen, but that does not mean God would know something if it did not and/or will never happen.

For example: Some will ask; “Why did God create a person that will not accept God’s Love and go to hell?” The reason is: “If the person is never created God does not know what this never created person would decide to do (that person has free will), but if the person was or will be created God knows what the person “did” (in God’s time frame) while living even if that person lives way far in the future.”

 

[Skala]

The "why" for the Arminian happens in-time.

No it doesn't.

I don't know what you are, but you aren't an Arminian if you don't believe election happened before the foundation of the world. You're still a synergist of some kind, but you aren't an Arminian.

The Arminian Remonstrance said:

God, by an eternal, unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ His Son, before the foundation of the world, hath determined, out of a fallen, sinful race of men, to save in Christ, for Christ's sake, and through Christ, those who, through the grace of the Holy Spirit, shall believe on this his Son Jesus, and shall persevere in this faith and obedience of faith, through this grace, even to the end;

 

[Skala]

The concept of unconditional election is reprehensible to spiritually minded persons.

Free, undeserved grace to hellbound people is reprehensible to you?

 

[gmm4Jesus]

No it doesn't.

Election is based on the in-time faith event.

 

[gmm4Jesus]

Free, undeserved grace to hellbound people is reprehensible to you?

Unconditional election is reprehensible.

 

[Hammster]

So it should me merited?

 

[gmm4Jesus]

I think it should be conditioned upon whatever God wants to condition it upon.

 

[Hammster]

I think it should be conditioned upon whatever God wants to condition it upon.

I agree.

also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, (Ephesians 1:11 NASB)

 

[gmm4Jesus]

Eph 1:12-14
in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

 

[Hammster]

Still waiting.

There is a zero percent chance that something already done (past tense) could be (future tense) done differently, only because it was already done. You are speaking from an omniscient perspective, but just because God has an omniscient perspective doesn't mean there aren't genuine in-time decisions. It is the decision that determines what will be seen, or (for God) was seen.

So again, the basis of election is a foreseen in-time event, not a before creation mystery.

Now, can you prove that from scripture?

 

[Skala]

I think it should be conditioned upon whatever God wants to condition it upon.

What if he wants to condition it on his own purposes and choice? (like Hammster pointed out with scripture)

 

[Skala]

Unconditional election is reprehensible.

It's the only election that removes grounds for human boasting. I'm sorry you abhor God's free, undeserved grace and would rather earn it or feel better about yourself for getting yourself elected, by being better than someone else. But it's just not Biblical, sorry.

 

[Skala]

Election is based on the in-time faith event.

But what it is based on and when it happened are two different questions.

 

[gmm4Jesus]

It's the only election that removes grounds for human boasting. I'm sorry you abhor God's free, undeserved grace and would rather earn it or feel better about yourself for getting yourself elected, by being better than someone else. But it's just not Biblical, sorry.

Receiving a gift is not grounds to boast. Have you ever boasted about receiving a gift? Kinda weird.

 

[EmSw]

It's the only election that removes grounds for human boasting. I'm sorry you abhor God's free, undeserved grace and would rather earn it or feel better about yourself for getting yourself elected, by being better than someone else. But it's just not Biblical, sorry.

In all my years (over 40) of following Jesus, I have NEVER heard anyone, Jew or Gentile, boast about salvation for any reason. This is a very weak argument to prove your point.

You are beating a self-created, dead horse.

 

[Hammster]

Receiving a gift is not grounds to boast. Have you ever boasted about receiving a gift? Kinda weird.

That's different. But you think you earn the gift by having faith.

 

[Hammster]

In all my years (over 40) of following Jesus, I have NEVER heard anyone, Jew or Gentile, boast about salvation for any reason. This is a very weak argument to prove your point.

You are beating a self-created, dead horse.

Whether or not they did is irrelevant. Whether or not they have grounds to boast is relevant.

Let me ask you, why are you saved when so many others who have also heard the same gospel are not saved?

 

[gmm4Jesus]

They resisted so great a salvation making them deserving of a more severe punishment (which would be unjust if they couldn't receive it), and I received the gift of salvation, but again; the reception of a gift is not boast worthy - Never has been and never will be.