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We don't work to get saved, we work because we are saved.The offer puts God in a full nelson to pay what's due to any who accept the offer....if there were one.
>Why discuss Calvinism vs Arminianism in Evangelism
I never seek to discus the issue formally, but frequently when evangelizing I come across someone who has tried to have faith but thinks he has failed, and who then concludes he simply is not of the "elect" and is therefore hopelessly forever without God. Quite often this is attended by the fear, or even the strong belief, that the person has committed the unforgivable sin and is beyond redemption, and by all the emotional and mental illness that goes with that. Most of the work then is to convince him that God wants him saved, that accepting the Free Gift of salvation is a choice, just a decision away.
This is almost always done without mentioning the name Arminianism; once in a while I will mention Calvinism because the term is more widely recognized. In all this I see Calvinism as a distortion of the Gospel offer and of God's character, one that holds many poor souls in bondage.
I'm a Calvinist. I'm describing the Arminian gospel.We don't work to get saved, we work because we are saved.
Some work more than others but God does not fire them.
Your salvation is from the legalism view not from grace.
But you constantly tell us we are doing what you have just proved you are doing.
With Calvinism you see your faith as proof God saved you. You could not believe otherwise.
??? what is that???The offer puts God in a full nelson to pay what's due to any who accept the offer....if there were one.
There are so many different beliefs in Calvinism that you don't know which one you are speaking to.
Lately, the ones I have seen believe that the "whosoever will" crowd are saved by a works salvation and therefore are not saved. I guess they base this on since you chose to be saved in God's mercy, you have committed a work in doing so, God has been denied His glory of salvation.
This of course if absurd. But another will say oh no, it's not like that, it's this way.
A job offer is an invitation for a potential employee, whether she has applied for a job or not, to become an employee in your organization. The job offer contains the details of your employment offer.
It generally sketches out the terms and conditions under which the employment is offered to the prospective employee. This includes salary, benefits, job responsibilities, and the reporting manager’s name and title.
Yes, and I'm saying that the Calvinist view cannot trust in Grace when they believe God will not offer His Grace to some. They have misunderstood Grace.I'm a Calvinist. I'm describing the Arminian gospel.
The unbeliever has chosen the gospel to be foolishness.
.
Grace is only for the elect.Yes, and I'm saying that the Calvinist view cannot trust in Grace when they believe God will not offer His Grace to some. They have misunderstood Grace.
There is only one other view that can be held. That is legalism.
What do Calvinists think about this? From what I understand, Calvinism teaches that left to our own devices, we would not even attempt to come to God on our own (given total depravity, I think?). But there are people, even on Christian Forums, who WANT to believe, who WANT to have faith-but can't seem to get there.>Why discuss Calvinism vs Arminianism in Evangelism
I never seek to discus the issue formally, but frequently when evangelizing I come across someone who has tried to have faith but thinks he has failed, and who then concludes he simply is not of the "elect" and is therefore hopelessly forever without God. Quite often this is attended by the fear, or even the strong belief, that the person has committed the unforgivable sin and is beyond redemption, and by all the emotional and mental illness that goes with that. Most of the work then is to convince him that God wants him saved, that accepting the Free Gift of salvation is a choice, just a decision away.
This is almost always done without mentioning the name Arminianism; once in a while I will mention Calvinism because the term is more widely recognized. In all this I see Calvinism as a distortion of the Gospel offer and of God's character, one that holds many poor souls in bondage.
Dave, I must disagree with your statement. I am of the Armenian persuasion and not one person I know of in any of my circles thinks that God OWES any man His blessing of salvation. It is offered in the only way it can be placed before mankind, as a gift. And it is a gift offered to all humans because justice demands it to be so. Anything other than a gift would be ludicrous because no man would ever be able to stand up to the measure of our God in Heaven. It is not by our deeds or works, but by His Grace through Jesus Christ that we are saved. It would seem that your notion of a quid pro quo would seem to dismiss the work of the Holy Spirit to be evident in our lives upon accepting Christ. I do admit that false prosperity preachers might suggest that, but true believers don't follow that idea one bit.With Calvinism you see your faith as proof God saved you. You could not believe otherwise. With Arminianism you see the gospel as a job offer. And believe God will owe you salvation when you accept the offer and go to work. = two different gospels.
You still trust in your faith to save you.Dave, I must disagree with your statement. I am of the Armenian persuasion and not one person I know of in any of my circles thinks that God OWES any man His blessing of salvation. It is offered in the only way it can be placed before mankind, as a gift. And it is a gift offered to all humans because justice demands it to be so. Anything other than a gift would be ludicrous because no man would ever be able to stand up to the measure of our God in Heaven. It is not by our deeds or works, but by His Grace through Jesus Christ that we are saved. It would seem that your notion of a quid pro quo would seem to dismiss the work of the Holy Spirit to be evident in our lives upon accepting Christ. I do admit that false prosperity preachers might suggest that, but true believers don't follow that idea one bit.
3/4 of the seed washed out. Only the good soil brought endurance.What do Calvinists think about this? From what I understand, Calvinism teaches that left to our own devices, we would not even attempt to come to God on our own (given total depravity, I think?). But there are people, even on Christian Forums, who WANT to believe, who WANT to have faith-but can't seem to get there.
Grace is offered to everyone. You believe grace is not offered to some God has chosen to hid it from. That is a perverted view of grace. It makes God a liar.Grace is only for the elect.
Offer = job offer = not the gospelGrace is offered to everyone. You believe grace is not offered to some God has chosen to hid it from. That is a perverted view of grace. It makes God a liar.
That is the same as the Jew who says I am God's chosen therefore I have salvation and the Gentiles are dogs with no hope of salvation.
How is your legalism any different from that of the Jew?
No Dave. How are you different from the Jew who claims superiority.Offer = job offer = not the gospel
I don't. Those who accept job offers and earn salvation like the Jews...do.No Dave. How are you different from the Jew who claims superiority.
Never heard anyone use this term but you. Kinda picked that one didn't you?I don't. Those who accept job offers and earn salvation like the Jews...do.
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