Why didn't this explode ?

[geocajun]

Yeah I am serious.

You probably would not like some of the DVDs I ordered from Becky Fisher's Children in Ministry either, which depict hyerventaling and fainting children and kids experiencing mass visions like finding gold on the floor.

I do not know how much of the documentary was slanted by the producers, but the scenes with the radio talk show host were all done well after the original scenes because they were having a problem putting the whole thing into context, some of the scenes (like when they were watching Veggie Tales) were manipulated. I saw comments by the father of one boy stating that he did not like the fact that the producers made it look like his son wanted to be a minister because his son always wanted to be a doctor. it was a very interesting exchange between Haggard and the kid though.

A review from a USCCB movie review staffer is here: http://www.catholic.org/ae/movies/review.php?id=21607

 

[geocajun]

geocajun, do you have a link for the trailer, as they don't show up on my computer if embedded, but will show up if i open them separately. ta.

sure delete the space between the / and "watch" in the URL.

http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE

 

[lmnop9876]

thanks geocajun.

after seeing the trailer, i don't think i will waste my scarce dollars on renting it.

 

[Snowbunny]

that was kind of frightening...

 

[geocajun]

thanks geocajun.

after seeing the trailer, i don't think i will waste my scarce dollars on renting it.

I watched it on google video a while back - I bet it is still there so you could watch for free. I assume it's legal since its hosted by google (I haven't verified that).
I remember when I first watched it, I was basically horrified through the whole thing.

 

[HisKid1973]

that was kind of frightening...

THIS is frightening :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odvRlLZrlJ4

 

[Snowbunny]

oh my...

 

[BAFRIEND]

A review from a USCCB movie review staffer is here: http://www.catholic.org/ae/movies/review.php?id=21607

At one point, Rachael explains how God prefers evangelical churches where the congregants are "jumping up and down, shouting his name" to the more sedate mainstream "dead churches."

Ha ha. Rachel tried in vain to recall the name of one denomination in particular, but could not force it.

My main problem with the reaction to the film is the claim of people brainwashing their kids. Of course this foucuses on the infuriation created by the central focus of "pro-life" stance.

Also, pjw the trailer in and of itself is created to lead one to beleive the film is about something it is not. Becky Fisher does not endorse putting rifles or hand grenades into the hands of kids.

The part I liked most about the movie is when the kids were taken to a woman's center opened deliberately next to a Planned Parenthood clinic and the kids go into a prayer room and pray for the women and their babies.

 

[WarriorAngel]

While it's outrageous and diabolical, regardless of who does it or what religion they're representing, what makes the Roman Catholic abuses stand out so in the minds of the public is that they're the ones who have an institutional conspiracy to cover it up.

Victims are routinely paid off, told that they're going to go to Hell if they go against the Roman Catholic church, etc. And then, to make matters worse, the predator is sent to another church without telling the congregation what is being sent their way...

So are you telling me that protestants put ads in the newspapers?

Of course they cover it up.
To deny that is suggesting they are proud of it.

OK. Go ahead and make your stupid false accusations.

I trust that anyone reading this post will see that I did not say that it's worse when a Roman Catholic does it.

No, you did say that the Catholics hide it better than Protestants...
or that they try to anyway.

I think part of the reason is that protestant ministers don't teach that they are acting in the person of God, or that they are specially configured to God in a way that the average lay person isn't.

I think when someone teaches another these things about themselves, and then goes on to molest you or your children, the crime takes on a special significance that it would not have had if the victim didn't believe these things to be true about the person assaulting them. ergo, the scandal is far more shocking. Consider with that, the cover ups and perceived general lack of care within the hierarchy, and I think it is easy to understand why folks were more outraged by catholic priests molesting kids than someone else doing it.

Well, the reason I have to disagree is that the ministers are calling themselves men of God.

SO they are just as guilty putting themselves in that position and them abusing the trust of children.

 

[geocajun]

Well, the reason I have to disagree is that the ministers are calling themselves men of God.

SO they are just as guilty putting themselves in that position and them abusing the trust of children.

I understand what you're saying, but protestant ministers aren't saying that they a separate quality of Christian from the laity. It isn't the same thing at all. On the one hand we have priests who are specially configured through having received holy orders, and empowered to act in the person of Christ, and on the other hand, we have protestant men and women who say they are called to do effectively what all Christians are called to do. The difference between the two and the way the members of their churches view them is vast, and I think it is for that reason it uniquely scandalizes folks when a priest who makes these claims about himself, does things like molest children.
Such a thing is always scandalous of course, but uniquely scandalous when done by someone who claims these extraordinary qualities about themselves.
Consider if it personally shocks you as much to hear that a baptist minister molested a child, as it does to hear a catholic priest did the same. I'd expect your answer would be the case of the priest shocked you more, and that is the whole point of my argument - which is what these men claim about themselves, and what you believe to be true about them, makes their molesting children far more scandalous than when some else does it. Couple that with the cover ups at the higher levels of the hierarchy, and the result that folks are far more outraged, and lashing out at the catholic church does not surprise me one bit.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I understand what you're saying, but protestant ministers aren't saying that they a separate quality of Christian from the laity. It isn't the same thing at all. On the one hand we have priests who are specially configured through having received holy orders, and empowered to act in the person of Christ, and on the other hand, we have protestant men and women who say they are called to do effectively what all Christians are called to do. The difference between the two and the way the members of their churches view them is vast, and I think it is for that reason it uniquely scandalizes folks when a priest who makes these claims about himself, does things like molest children.
Such a thing is always scandalous of course, but uniquely scandalous when done by someone who claims these extraordinary qualities about themselves.
Consider if it personally shocks you as much to hear that a baptist minister molested a child, as it does to hear a catholic priest did the same. I'd expect your answer would be the case of the priest shocked you more, and that is the whole point of my argument - which is what these men claim about themselves, and what you believe to be true about them, makes their molesting children far more scandalous than when some else does it. Couple that with the cover ups at the higher levels of the hierarchy, and the result that folks are far more outraged, and lashing out at the catholic church does not surprise me one bit.

I cannot argue with any of this.

 

[hopeblossom]

As a new catholic convert in the process I have to say that I have come across so many negative comments etc of the catholic church which is what made me so reluctant all these years. So I can see that it does get a bad reputation. Those negative views have grieved me a lot. That said though, there are many troubling things that we do not have the answers to. I have heard terrible things about the mormon church also buying up radio stations, tv stations and such to cover up. I haven't done the research on this personally so I can't say that it is true. And it troubles me greatly. I do know some good people that are mormon. Only God can see the truth and I think we need to have faith in Him. Leave it to God to get these things figured out. The good thing is we are accountable for ourselves. Each of us has our own choice to make. If we are at peace with our own choices - that is what is important. And we can pray for the ones who are suffering and we can pray for the ones who are harming others. They are the ones who are truly lost.

 

[Miss Shelby]

the only thing that I will say is that when people bring up the scandals in a gratuitous way, when they are just looking for reasons to blame all that ails society on the Church, when it wouldn't matter one hoot to them had the scandals never had happened, when in fact they seem GLAD they did, and they'd find something else to fault the Church with, THAT irritates me

 

[HisKid1973]

I cannot argue with any of this.

Wow..Your feelin OK,right...

 

[HisKid1973]

the only thing that I will say is that when people bring up the scandals in a gratuitous way, when they are just looking for reasons to blame all that ails society on the Church.

We need to stops throwing stones because we all live in glass houses...Put aside our differences and live Christ in our word and deed to a lost and dying world. Full well remembering there are tares, wolves in sheep's clothing among us all...shalom..Kim


1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I do think the OP was kinda dumb and unnecesary, Kid. Hence my mind your own beezwax comment.

 

[MCGar]

Tee Hee......I thought you meant the Original Poster, I had to read it over a couple of times, to 'get' Original Post.

sorry BA

 

[TexasCatholic]

There's a simple difference: The Catholic Church is seen by the general public as a big money pit (untrue, but nontheless....) So, people figure they can sue the Church. It's very organized and legally established.

Protestant churches are by and large independently operated entities with minimal finite resources.... not a huge conglomeration of billions of believers, but just a few hundred people who lease and/or built a physical building. There's no organization to sue, no money to be had.

To quote the article from the OP: "The [Southern Baptist] convention has 16.3 million members and 43,000 independent churches" ... INDEPENDENT churches.

Bottom line: No unified organization, no unified money, no reason to pursue. So, it doesn't make the news until the big money judgements show up....

-Michael

 

[WarriorAngel]

And how was it uncalled for?

Did I debate? No. Did I say that Roman Catholicism is wrong? No. Did I suggest anything that runs counter to Roman Catholic teaching? No.



This, coming from the girl who says that asking a question is "debating".

I have seen your posts and you DEFINITELY have been debating.

And I am not afraid to tell you that if I were still mod, you would be curbing your posts.

AND in that same line, I would be reporting you.

I havent yet... but i might if you continue to call ppl stupid and otherwise act superior in this congregation.

 

[Forest]

The fact that child molestation is nearly double that in evangelical denominations than in the RCC is not being shouted from any roof tops. This story was extinguished.

That is the question I am posing, "Why did this not explode in the media the same way it exploded against the RCC ?"

Even if the percentage is higher in protestant churches the actual number of abuse cases are higher in the Catholic Church simply because there are more Catholics in the world, and that really means nothing except that there is a lot more money, so more lawsuits are filed, and lawsuits get media attention.