Why didn't Jesus kill people?

[mindfulness]

Before jumping the gun on me here, wait a minute and hear me out. I got thinking, from reading Ray's topic on here and about all the killing and destruction in the Bible and it made me think, so I had to ask this question:

Why didn't Jesus kill people?

Right, He's God (according to our Christian beliefs, though I'd like to hear from everyone, not just Christians here), so my question is, and it's a theological one, why didn't Jesus do the same works as God had done, and continues to do? What is it about Him being human that changes all the rules? Can someone shed some light onto this topic?

And if I'm off-topic, this can be moved to a more appropriate venue, such as theology (even though I hate that forum lol).

 

[a pilgrim]

How do you know he's never "killed" someone?

Was he not active in the Old Testament?

 

[mindfulness]

How do you know he's never "killed" someone?

Was he not active in the Old Testament?

So you're saying Jesus killed people? Hmm, that is the first I've heard of it. The gospels say He never sinned and never killed anyone. Are you postulating differently?

 

[LoAmmi]

So you're saying Jesus killed people? Hmm, that is the first I've heard of it. The gospels say He never sinned and never killed anyone. Are you postulating differently?

That would be arguing a matter of degree. If HaShem causes one of us to die, is it murder or is it His right? By extension, if you believe Jesus is divine, would he also not have that right?

However, to follow the Gospel stories and the New Testament, killing people while on Earth would not have helped complete his mission. If you do not follow the stories then why have you not killed anybody? (I am assuming you have not).

 

[mindfulness]

That would be arguing a matter of degree. If HaShem causes one of us to die, is it murder or is it His right? By extension, if you believe Jesus is divine, would he also not have that right?

However, to follow the Gospel stories and the New Testament, killing people while on Earth would not have helped complete his mission. If you do not follow the stories then why have you not killed anybody? (I am assuming you have not).

I don't know. I've heard Christians say that God does not kill anyone, so that is also a matter of perspective and opinion. As for Jesus having that right, that is exactly what we are exploring here. He's God, right? No Christian would argue there I hope. So then, why didn't He go around slaughtering people? One would think He would. What part of being human means NOT executing divine authority?

Actually, killing people arguably might have got him to the cross much faster. Criminals were put to death and someone who killed another would have had no trouble being crucified for that, I'd say.

 

[ElijahW]

Christianity would have lost the battle if it had been with conventional weapons of the time. He wasn't for killing the enemy because the enemy was too powerful at the time to kill with a sword and wouldn't really solve the problem, just exacerbate it. Jesus was willing to kill himself, and set the example for his followers to imitate, instead of having them kill others. This creates a meme that grows stronger every time you kill a Christian, providing a method to establish a kingdom though other means than outright war.

 

[LoAmmi]

I don't know. I've heard Christians say that God does not kill anyone, so that is also a matter of perspective and opinion. As for Jesus having that right, that is exactly what we are exploring here. He's God, right? No Christian would argue there I hope. So then, why didn't He go around slaughtering people? One would think He would. What part of being human means NOT executing divine authority?

Well, he obviously is not divine to me, but I have heard Christians say that he did not have full access to his, for lack of a better word, powers. That all his miracles had to be performed through him by the Father. It would have limited his ability to go on a chainsaw killing spree through the streets of Jerusalem.

Actually, killing people arguably might have got him to the cross much faster. Criminals were put to death and someone who killed another would have had no trouble being crucified for that, I'd say.

The story loses its appeal the second the big leader is a lunatic that murdered people in the streets. Also, I think it would be very hard to sell him as an unblemished lamb while he's covered in the blood of his victims.

 

[mindfulness]

Christianity would have lost the battle if it had been with conventional weapons of the time. He wasn't for killing the enemy because the enemy was too powerful at the time to kill with a sword and wouldn't really solve the problem, just exacerbate it. Jesus was willing to kill himself, and set the example for his followers to imitate, instead of having them kill others. This creates a meme that grows stronger every time you kill a Christian, providing a method to establish a kingdom though other means than outright war.

Hmm, I think I'd rather kill others than myself. *thinking*

 

[razeontherock]

So then, why didn't He go around slaughtering people? One would think He would.

Leave it to Peter:

John 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear."

And the sons of thunder:

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?"

What was Jesus' response? Why?

And for context:

"And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. (Luke 4:16) And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And he closed the book"

Now, what is the very next line in Isaiah? It would seem He knew His mission, and He stuck to it. Faithfully.

What part of being human means NOT executing divine authority?

Oh, but He did:

"For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." (1 John 3:8)

Let's contrast this to the general message of John:

(1 John 3:1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God"

(Also notice how complex this gets wrt my thread you mentioned)

Actually, killing people arguably might have got him to the cross much faster. Criminals were put to death and someone who killed another would have had no trouble being crucified for that, I'd say.

Disagreed:

"And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out [his] hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. (Matthew 26:52) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

The Jews wanted Him going on a killing spree. They expected it. They rejected Him because He didn't, and do so to this day. And yet if He had come unto His own with such Glory, you and I could never be Saved.

What a plan!

 

[mindfulness]

Well, he obviously is not divine to me, but I have heard Christians say that he did not have full access to his, for lack of a better word, powers. That all his miracles had to be performed through him by the Father. It would have limited his ability to go on a chainsaw killing spree through the streets of Jerusalem.

The story loses its appeal the second the big leader is a lunatic that murdered people in the streets. Also, I think it would be very hard to sell him as an unblemished lamb while he's covered in the blood of his victims.

But isn't that what some Christians do, perhaps unintentionally, when they advocate that He was the one in the OT that was doing the killing, as another poster pointed out? What's the difference if He did it in human form or in "God" form?

 

[mindfulness]

Leave it to Peter:

John 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear."

And the sons of thunder:

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?"

What was Jesus' response? Why?

And for context:

"And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. (Luke 4:16) And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And he closed the book"

Now, what is the very next line in Isaiah? It would seem He knew His mission, and He stuck to it. Faithfully.



Oh, but He did:

"For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." (1 John 3:8)

Let's contrast this to the general message of John:

(1 John 3:1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God"

(Also notice how complex this gets wrt my thread you mentioned)



Disagreed:

"And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out [his] hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. (Matthew 26:52) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

The Jews wanted Him going on a killing spree. They expected it. They rejected Him because He didn't, and do so to this day. And yet if He had come unto His own with such Glory, you and I could never be Saved.

What a plan!

Yes, what a plan. The trouble comes in, however, when we compare it to the entire character of God revealed in the Hebrew Bible! It doesn't line up!

(Now I'll sit back expect to be called a Gnostic. )

 

[LoAmmi]

The Jews wanted Him going on a killing spree. They expected it. They rejected Him because He didn't, and do so to this day.

Perhaps you would care to ask just one of us if we want a killing spree before you state what we want or do not want?

 

[razeontherock]

Yes, what a plan. The trouble comes in, however, when we compare it to the entire character of God revealed in the Hebrew Bible! It doesn't line up!

This is a very important thing to seek G-d about. There are many ways of going about it: prayer and fasting, reading the ECF's topically (they did cover this, at length) and many other things you can do.

You might come to the conclusion that certain parts of the Bible are negative examples, which is true. You may conclude that some troubling sections weren't sanctioned by God at all, Jews merely claimed He did. Jews do this, as do Episcopalians, Catholics, some Lutherans, and maybe some other groups. I find that difficult to swallow, as it puts Moses himself in that camp. Joshua too, and he was the only one to make it out of Egypt and into the Promised Land alive, other than Caleb.

Ultimately what all this does is gives us a bigger and clearer picture of who
G-d is. "Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner [stone], a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste." (Isaiah 28:16)

 

[ElijahW]

Hmm, I think I'd rather kill others than myself. *thinking*

Yes, that is the natural feeling of most animals and the reason for the impact on society by the Christian martyrs. As LoAmmi pointed out killing others doesn't accomplish the goal. The goal being to establish the Kingdom of Heaven, on Earth.

 

[LoAmmi]

Yes, that is the natural feeling of most animals and the reason for the impact on society by the Christian martyrs. As LoAmmi pointed out killing others doesn't accomplish the goal. The goal being to establish the Kingdom of Heaven, on Earth.

Do not forget that other people have gone to death instead of changing their faith or fighting back.

 

[razeontherock]

Perhaps you would care to ask just one of us if we want a killing spree before you state what we want or do not want?

Context is king. The time was 2000 years ago. The place was Roman occupation. You know far better than I do that the Jews were itching for a fight, that they took it to them, repeatedly, and were humiliated. You have already stated that you would believe if He fulfilled the rest of the Messianic Prophesies; at that time, that would've meant going on a killing spree. So my statements stands, and is correct.

He is the Lion of Judah, but He has not manifested that part of the Prophecies yet. He appeared as the Lamb of G-d first, which took everyone by surprise. Everyone except Elijah, that is ...

 

[LoAmmi]

Context is king. The time was 2000 years ago. The place was Roman occupation. You know far better than I do that the Jews were itching for a fight, that they took it to them, repeatedly, and were humiliated. You have already stated that you would believe if He fulfilled the rest of the Messianic Prophesies; at that time, that would've meant going on a killing spree. So my statements stands, and is correct.

He is the Lion of Judah, but He has not manifested that part of the Prophecies yet. He appeared as the Lamb of G-d first, which took everyone by surprise. Everyone except Elijah, that is ...

Elijah, you say? Do you have text to back that up?

If you mean leading Israel in a victory as a "killing spree", I might agree. But I would not call it a killing spree.

 

[razeontherock]

Do not forget that other people have gone to death instead of changing their faith or fighting back.

Yes. I have a problem with the posited idea of kingdom building via martyrdom. It may be valid and I just don't get it. I may just have more Sampson in me than Joan of Arc.

 

[razeontherock]

Elijah, you say? Do you have text to back that up?

Yes:

(John 1:29) The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

If you mean leading Israel in a victory as a "killing spree", I might agree. But I would not call it a killing spree.

I'll give you that. Same concept. I do take my liberties with words. What words would you use to describe that hypothetical scenario?

 

[mindfulness]

Yes, that is the natural feeling of most animals and the reason for the impact on society by the Christian martyrs. As LoAmmi pointed out killing others doesn't accomplish the goal. The goal being to establish the Kingdom of Heaven, on Earth.

It worked fine in the Old Testament.