Why did the snake entice Eve first but not Adam?

bling · Mar 7, 2017

SeventyOne said:
I have no doubt he was in agreement with her, otherwise, he wouldn't have fallen as well.

I do not think he was in "agreement" with her, but his love for her was so great he felt he could not live without her (like Romeo and Juliet). Adam and Eve both at this time had not obtained Godly type Love because "If you Love me you will obey me...", but they would have grown to a strong "spouse for spouse" type love thus they are "with" each other. The Hebrew word is used like 800 times in the OT and mostly has this kind of meaning (I can look up my old notes if you want).

SeventyOne · Mar 7, 2017

bling said:
I do not think he was in "agreement" with her, but his love for her was so great he felt he could not live without her (like Romeo and Juliet). Adam and Eve both at this time had not obtained Godly type Love because "If you Love me you will obey me...", but they would have grown to a strong "spouse for spouse" type love thus they are "with" each other. The Hebrew word is used like 800 times in the OT and mostly has this kind of meaning (I can look up my old notes if you want).

Maybe, but since it doesn't say that explicitly, it'll remain as conjecture until we meet them face-to-face and ask them why they screwed it all up for the rest of us.

Yarddog · Mar 7, 2017

BukiRob said:
Allegory:

: the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence a writer known for his use of allegory; also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression The poem is an allegory of love and jealousy.

2: a symbolic representation

Which is why in the post you reply to I go to great lengths to detail that the Garden account is both a literal event and an allegory pointing to the war in heaven.

Normally an Allegory is FICTIONAL

So, you want to claim that Paul was calling Sarah and Hagar fictional?

Gal. 4:
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the freeborn woman.
23 The son of the slave woman was born naturally, the son of the freeborn through a promise.
24 Now this is an allegory. These women represent two covenants. One was from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; this is Hagar.
25 Hagar represents Sinai, a mountain in Arabia; it corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery along with her children.
26But the Jerusalem above is freeborn, and she is our mother.

mark kennedy · Mar 7, 2017

Jesus_is_Saint said:
Why did the snake (Satan?) persuade Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, but not to talk to Adam first?
Could he talk to Adam first but Adam had rejected him, and so he came to entice Eve?

He seized the dragan, that ancient serpent, who is the devil or satan, and bound him for a thousand years. (Rev 20:2)

According to Jesus he is the father of lies, when he lies he speaks his native language, he was a liar and murderer from the begininng. He approaches Eve because he is the Prince of the power of the air, he probably picked up on the spiritual vibe that she would believe it.

bling · Mar 7, 2017

SeventyOne said:
Maybe, but since it doesn't say that explicitly, it'll remain as conjecture until we meet them face-to-face and ask them why they screwed it all up for the rest of us.

How is it "screwed it all up for the rest of us"?
I appreciate what they went through in my stead. They were the best all human representatives I could have and in what I might think of as the ideal situation they did not fulfill their earthly objective without sinning.
Would you prefer to be in a situation where your eternal close relationship with God was totally dependent on your personal ability to obey God or in the situation you are in today where your eternal close relationship with God is dependent on your humbly accepting His charity?

Grandpa2390 · Mar 7, 2017

BukiRob said:
You come across as a bit of an donkey's behind you know that?

haha! That one made me laugh.

Well you keep attacking the same strawman over and over. I'm just trying to set the record straight of where I stand. I start to feel like I'm talking to a donkey's butt. Especially when you try to link me to evolutionary heresy...

But it is ok. I feel like we are on the same page.

So why did Adam eat? There are only a very few possible answers. And when you exclude answers that are not rational whatever is left is probably the correct answer.

He ate because eve gave it to him a told him to eat it. Whatever the underlying motivation, we don't know. Maybe eve told him what the devil told her, and he decided he wanted to be like god too.

I don't know. The point is that she gave it to him, said eat this and he ate it knowing he was disobeying God.

Therefore, he chose to obey eve rather than God

If you want to believe that Adam had some fairytale passionate love for her that caused him to commit a crime of passion. That's fine but it doesn't change the fact that he chose to do with Eve wanted rather than what God wanted.

I believe the verse says eve gave to Adam. Not Adam asked eve for some

Adam named all of the animals he therefore had KNOWLEDGE. Since he was until he ate of the fruit sinless he KNEW NO EVIL and as such did not have an inclination to do evil. That means that he WOULD NOT HAVE EATEN of his own accord. This is why the serpent did not go after Adam directly but instead attacked Eve.

you are right, Adam was intelligent he spoke every language in the world.
He chose to eat of his own accord. Nobody forced him to eat. Eve did not know evil either. She was just easier to deceive. She still knowingly disobeyed what Adam told her. She chose to.

NONE of what I have suggest is allegory, fairy tale, metaphor or spiritualized but rather is DEDUCTIVE reasoning... you should try it some time... its helpful in life

Donkey Butt!

Eve led him into sin or he followed her into sin . There is not much difference if we are discussing the order God set in place and whether they defied that order

Grandpa2390 · Mar 7, 2017

miknik5 said:
your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you came after they had sinned

I don't have time look up Scriptures but it's not hard to do.
God spoke to Adam not eve
eve was created for Adam not the other way
Furthermore it becomes quite apparent as you read Bible that this is the order set by god from the beginning

The word for desire there comes From an Arabic root which means to seek control of. I already typed a post explaining the curse go back and look for it.

Monk Brendan · Mar 7, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
The serpent was just said to be a serpent in Genesis. The thing about Satan being the serpent mainly comes from Paradise Lost. (There's the mention of the ancient serpent in Revelation, but that's heavily symbolic and was written many centuries after Genesis when views on God and Satan had started to change.)

Maybe, but if we look at the other end of the Book, we see this:“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

Grandpa2390 · Mar 7, 2017

miknik5 said:
Your comment
She ate the fruit and became evil is wrong

Wrong comment because they both ate it and immediately their eyes were opened

You are saying Eve ate it, knew her sin and offered it to her husband anyway?

I knew that word immediately was in there. I edited it out of a post earlier. I must've been looking at the wrong translation

No I'm not saying that. I am saying that it doesn't matter how she interprets it, it doesn't change the fact that Adam Willingly and knowingly followed her into sin.

miknik5 · Mar 7, 2017

bling said:
I do not think he was in "agreement" with her, but his love for her was so great he felt he could not live without her (like Romeo and Juliet). Adam and Eve both at this time had not obtained Godly type Love because "If you Love me you will obey me...", but they would have grown to a strong "spouse for spouse" type love thus they are "with" each other. The Hebrew word is used like 800 times in the OT and mostly has this kind of meaning (I can look up my old notes if you want).

They both did not (at the same pace) grow up into

Grandpa2390 said:
I don't have time look up Scriptures but it's not hard to do.
God spoke to Adam not eve
eve was created for Adam not the other way
Furthermore it becomes quite apparent as you read Bible that this is the order set by god from the beginning

The word for desire there comes From an Arabic root which means to seek control of. I already typed a post explaining the curse go back and look for it.

the curse fell on both the maleand the female
Both Adam and Eve were sent out
The way was blocked to both

Eve as the mother of all living didn't just bring forth female offspring but both male and female

And both the male and female children of woman were born outside and separated from the Tree of life

Until THE WAY would be provided to both the male and the female

Again

Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you was the result of the fall
But initially GOd created both male and female in HUS LIKENESS

And HE called them man

CrystalDragon · Mar 7, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
Maybe, but if we look at the other end of the Book, we see this:“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

Like I mentioned, that was in Revelation, which was written many centuries after Genesis and thus was written when doctrine had changed.

Grandpa2390 · Mar 7, 2017

miknik5 said:
They both did not (at the same pace) grow up into

the curse fell on both the maleand the female
Both Adam and Eve were sent out
The way was blocked to both

Eve as the mother of all living didn't just bring forth female offspring but both male and female

And both the male and female children of woman were born outside and separated from the Tree of life

Until THE WAY would be provided to both the male and the female

Again

Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you was the result of the fall
But initially GOd created both male and female in HUS LIKENESS

And HE called them man

Man and woman...

Yeah they were both cursed because they were both guilty.

And there was henceforth enmity between husband and wife
We can agree on the curse. The feminist movement began at the curse

BukiRob · Mar 7, 2017

Yarddog said:
So, you want to claim that Paul was calling Sarah and Hagar fictional?

Gal. 4:
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the freeborn woman.
23 The son of the slave woman was born naturally, the son of the freeborn through a promise.
24 Now this is an allegory. These women represent two covenants. One was from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; this is Hagar.
25 Hagar represents Sinai, a mountain in Arabia; it corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery along with her children.
26But the Jerusalem above is freeborn, and she is our mother.

LOL holy crow.... Paul is telling you in verse 24 that what FOLLOWS is an allegory. So tell me, are you saying that literally Sara and Hagar are the covenants?

BukiRob · Mar 7, 2017

Grandpa2390 said:
haha! That one made me laugh.

Well you keep attacking the same strawman over and over. I'm just trying to set the record straight of where I stand. I start to feel like I'm talking to a donkey's butt. Especially when you try to link me to evolutionary heresy...

But it is ok. I feel like we are on the same page.

He ate because eve gave it to him a told him to eat it. Whatever the underlying motivation, we don't know. Maybe eve told him what the devil told her, and he decided he wanted to be like god too.

I don't know. The point is that she gave it to him, said eat this and he ate it knowing he was disobeying God.

Therefore, he chose to obey eve rather than God

If you want to believe that Adam had some fairytale passionate love for her that caused him to commit a crime of passion. That's fine but it doesn't change the fact that he chose to do with Eve wanted rather than what God wanted.

I believe the verse says eve gave to Adam. Not Adam asked eve for some

you are right, Adam was intelligent he spoke every language in the world.
He chose to eat of his own accord. Nobody forced him to eat. Eve did not know evil either. She was just easier to deceive. She still knowingly disobeyed what Adam told her. She chose to.

Donkey Butt!

Eve led him into sin or he followed her into sin . There is not much difference if we are discussing the order God set in place and whether they defied that order

How about we agree to disagree

SPF · Mar 7, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
Like I mentioned, that was in Revelation, which was written many centuries after Genesis and thus was written when doctrine had changed.

Are you suggesting that not all of Scripture is trustworthy and inspired? Is there some sort of order by which we should trust Scripture based upon when a book was written? I'll give you a hint - the answer is no. All of Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Scripture interprets Scripture.

BukiRob · Mar 7, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
Like I mentioned, that was in Revelation, which was written many centuries after Genesis and thus was written when doctrine had changed.

Either its ALL inspired equally or none of it is...

Yarddog · Mar 7, 2017

BukiRob said:
LOL holy crow.... Paul is telling you in verse 24 that what FOLLOWS is an allegory. So tell me, are you saying that literally Sara and Hagar are the covenants?

I admit that I didn't see the part in your post where you said that it was both literal and allegory but then, there was never a reason for you to go into any detail about that part in the first place since. I haven't read any of your posts trying to explain why you think that it has something to do with a war in heaven. I guess I'll have to go back and find where you explain your views on that.

Good day

miknik5 · Mar 7, 2017

Grandpa2390 said:
Man and woman...

Yeah they were both cursed because they were both guilty.

And there was henceforth enmity between husband and wife
We can agree on the curse. The feminist movement began at the curse

Really?

Enmity between the two had nothing to do with causing the division between a man and a woman at all

In fact CHRIST came to bring the two together in One

Where there is (supposed to ) be no male no female...no Jew no gentile...

DingDing · Mar 7, 2017

Jesus_is_Saint said:
Why did the snake (Satan?) persuade Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, but not to talk to Adam first?
...

Likely, the snake took the path of least resistance.

CrystalDragon · Mar 7, 2017

SPF said:
Are you suggesting that not all of Scripture is trustworthy and inspired? Is there some sort of order by which we should trust Scripture based upon when a book was written? I'll give you a hint - the answer is no. All of Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Scripture interprets Scripture.

Though when it was said "All Scripture is God-breathed" that was before the New Testament was compiled, and there were many Bible books that could have been included but weren't. In the 300 years it took after Jesus to establish which ones, isn't it possible some false ones might have slipped through and true ones got lost?

Why did the snake entice Eve first but not Adam?

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