Why did Paul tell Timothy to drink some wine?

[KM Richards]

i see that your ears are closed to good teaching, and you prefer to stick with your interpretation.

OK, so how did a "doctor" prescribe fermented wine to kill pain without the person having to drink it to get drunk which would lessen the pain that they feel?

In understand that pouring alcohol over a wound would help clean the wound and kill germs...but doing that is going to have little effect of the pain a person is feeling all through their body due to the pain.

The person is gonna have to get drunk on the wine...just like a person taking pain pills today is getting intoxicated in order to lessen the pain...and if done under a "doctors" prescription isn't necessarily a sin...but, it's also not God's best under the Covenant.

My original thought was concerning people who aren't under the care of a doctor...but want to have a few glasses of wine cause it makes them "feel good"...well, that's gettin drunk, and it's a sin!

 

[pdudgeon]

whatever your original thought was, it certainly doesn't help to misapply scripture, saying that it supports your cuse when it does no such thing.
non-christians do that all the time. But in this forum you should expect that when you do that, those who know the difference will point out your error and patiently teach you what is the correct interpretation of the verse you have mis-used.

now you are free to either accept or reject the interpretation and offer one of your own in it's place. but to keep on insisting that your original interpretation and mis-useage was correct is foolishness. not only that, but by insisting on your right to mis-use scripture you put a stumbling stone of your own making in your pathway to understanding more about God.

we are not here to give you problems in the forum. but by showing you what is error we hope to point you to the truth of God so that you can grow both in grace and in knowledge of Him.

 

[KM Richards]

OK, so Jesus was not using illustrations of how wine was actually handled in His day...to make His point???

He just made all that stuff up about the new wine being put in new wine skins...because you can't put old wine in new wine skins cause both get spoiled???

Did Jesus not frequently use actual situations that are real in this world...in His illustrations to make a spiritual point?

If He did...then, I committed no error...

 

[pdudgeon]

OK, so Jesus was not using illustrations of how wine was actually handled in His day...to make His point???

He just made all that stuff up about the new wine being put in new wine skins...because you can't put old wine in new wine skins cause both get spoiled???

Did Jesus not frequently use actual situations that are real in this world...in His illustrations to make a spiritual point?

If He did...then, I committed no error...

There's no proof he was saying to drink wine as in the alcoholic version...which is grapes that are going bad, and ferment, making alcohol in the "wine"

In those times they drank the "fruit of the vine" which today we call "grape juice"...which, btw, has been verified by medical science in testing to have numerous health benefits.

But, I understand that many Christians that refuse to subcribe to holiness as taught in the scriptures...like to have their excuse for drinkin some wine, so they can be forgiven winos!

In order to use it to "kill pain", one would have to get drunk on it...and getting intoxicated is a sin (Ephesians 5:18, 1 Peter 4:3)

Maybe that was for those folks that didn't receive their healing and they figured they's get drunk to kill the pain and repent later...

one of these days we'll all be held accountable for every idle word we speak.
i would stop now if i were you.

 

[KM Richards]

one of these days we'll all be held accountable for every idle word we speak.
i would stop now if i were you.

You're right...you obviously don't get it, and are now accusing me of idle speech...that's rich

Hang in there girl...you'll get it one of these days....

So, let me guess...do you like to have a glass or two of wine every now and again? Usually, the person that has a problem with anyone saying we should not drink alcohol, is the one that likes to nip a little here and there...is that you?

Jus thought I'd ask, ya know...

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

OK, so Jesus was not using illustrations of how wine was actually handled in His day...to make His point???

He just made all that stuff up about the new wine being put in new wine skins...because you can't put old wine in new wine skins cause both get spoiled???

Did Jesus not frequently use actual situations that are real in this world...in His illustrations to make a spiritual point?

If He did...then, I committed no error...

Illustrations, sure. But when one uses the illustrations to try to prove something that scripture is clearly not saying then they are very much in error.

These verses, as pdudgeon points out, in context are about a far more important topic than the wine used in the illustration.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

whatever your original thought was, it certainly doesn't help to misapply scripture, saying that it supports your cuse when it does no such thing.
non-christians do that all the time. But in this forum you should expect that when you do that, those who know the difference will point out your error and patiently teach you what is the correct interpretation of the verse you have mis-used.

now you are free to either accept or reject the interpretation and offer one of your own in it's place. but to keep on insisting that your original interpretation and mis-useage was correct is foolishness. not only that, but by insisting on your right to mis-use scripture you put a stumbling stone of your own making in your pathway to understanding more about God.

we are not here to give you problems in the forum. but by showing you what is error we hope to point you to the truth of God so that you can grow both in grace and in knowledge of Him.

Amen! Wise words indeed.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

one of these days we'll all be held accountable for every idle word we speak.
i would stop now if i were you.

I stand as the second witness against my brother and the idle words he speaks. I'm praying for this situation; may God give understanding.

 

[KM Richards]

Illustrations, sure. But when one uses the illustrations to try to prove something that scripture is clearly not saying then they are very much in error.

I was talking about wine...Jesus used a real life example of how people in His day handled wine...was the way Jesus said wine was handled...NOT true???

In other words, in this instance...Jesus was using a real world example to make His spiritual point, so the example he gave was a real way wine was handled, therefore that can be used when talking about wine...which is what I was talking about!

So...unless Jesus was lying, I committed no error at all...

 

[KM Richards]

I stand as the second witness against my brother and the idle words he speaks. I'm praying for this situation; may God give understanding.

Hang in there brother...God'll get it over to ya!

 

[Jedi.Kep]

1 Timothy 5: 23-25 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. Some men's sins are open before hand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after. Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

I'm going to toss out some questions and y'all answer them.

1) The word "infirmities"...does it have any other meanings or possible translations that could apply in this verse and/or setting?

2) Do the verses preceeding or following 23 have anything to do with the interpretation of the verse? Cause effect issue? Specifically 24? Could some of Timothy's previous sins be following him? Just a question to ponder.

God Bless!

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

I was talking about wine...Jesus used a real life example of how people in His day handled wine...was the way Jesus said wine was handled...NOT true???

In other words, in this instance...Jesus was using a real world example to make His spiritual point, so the example he gave was a real way wine was handled, therefore that can be used when talking about wine...which is what I was talking about!

So...unless Jesus was lying, I committed no error at all...

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
​

Unless Jesus was lying, they should have destroyed the temple in Jerusalem, and Jesus would have rebuilt the structure in 3 days....

...was He lying? Must've been lying, huh? Reconsider your error, sir.

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
​

I'm talking about human flesh here, KM. It is ok to be a cannibal: Jesus said so. And we need to drink human blood too. Unless He's lying, because He did say His flesh and his wine, ... er, not wine, this is about blood ... clearly says blood. Eat flesh and drink blood. Unless He's lying, of course....

...was He lying? Must've been lying this time, right?

Reconsider your error, sir.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

@ km richards

If you think drinking some wine is such a sin then don't do it but I don't like it how you come along making it look like if you drink some wine you're sinning and cannot be "holy" that's ridiculous.
Also if Jesus had not produced alcoholic wine at the wedding it would have made no sense that master complained:
"Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!"

@ ABlessedMan



Where can I debate such answers? I didn't know that it's not allowed to ask things here. That's confusing...

Hi Sam; you can indeed ask questions, but may not debate the answers in denominational and faith group forums that are not your own. If you wish to open a thread where debate is allowed you can do it here:

Theology (Christian Only); pick the sub-forum which best suits your topic, and go to it!

BTW, welcome to CF!

Mark
Staff Supervisor

 

[KM Richards]

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
​

Unless Jesus was lying, they should have destroyed the temple in Jerusalem, and Jesus would have rebuilt the structure in 3 days....

...was He lying? Must've been lying, huh? Reconsider your error, sir.

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
​

I'm talking about human flesh here, KM. It is ok to be a cannibal: Jesus said so. And we need to drink human blood too. Unless He's lying, because He did say His flesh and his wine, ... er, not wine, this is about blood ... clearly says blood. Eat flesh and drink blood. Unless He's lying, of course....

...was He lying? Must've been lying this time, right?

Reconsider your error, sir.

Wow, done run off in the ditch on the other side in your attempts to refute something you refuse to understand, eh?

Where did I say ALL of Jesus' examples were based on real life situations such as how mankind handled wine during Jesus' day???

Go study up on how wine was handled back in that time frame, in Israel especially...and get back to me on that...

 

[prophecyistrue]

There's no proof he was saying to drink wine as in the alcoholic version...which is grapes that are going bad, and ferment, making alcohol in the "wine"

In those times they drank the "fruit of the vine" which today we call "grape juice"...which, btw, has been verified by medical science in testing to have numerous health benefits.

But, I understand that many Christians that refuse to subcribe to holiness as taught in the scriptures...like to have their excuse for drinkin some wine, so they can be forgiven winos!

you should take some time and do a study of all the scripture that refers to wine, to call it grape juice is unbiblical, for grape juice there would be no warnings for its consumption, you could drink it all day long and it would have no adverse affects, now on the otherhand if it were wine like the wine Noah drank, it would biblically make sense that warnings should be given in drinking it, and they are! you see from scripture no mention or warnings for making it, in fact in the old testiment God is the one who tells them how to make the drink offering, which we later see to be WINE......personally I don't drink any alcoholic beverages, but the bible only speaks against drunkiness and not the drinking of wine

 

[KM Richards]

you should take some time and do a study of all the scripture that refers to wine, to call it grape juice is unbiblical, for grape juice there would be no warnings for its consumption, you could drink it all day long and it would have no adverse affects, now on the otherhand if it were wine like the wine Noah drank, it would biblically make sense that warnings should be given in drinking it, and they are! you see from scripture no mention or warnings for making it, in fact in the old testiment God is the one who tells them how to make the drink offering, which we later see to be WINE......personally I don't drink any alcoholic beverages, but the bible only speaks against drunkiness and not the drinking of wine

Concerning actual wine, the bible talks about new wine (the fresh fruit of the vine...grape juice containing NO alcohol!), and old wine (wine that is no longer fresh, is fermenting and now contains alcohol).

To say all wine is like the wine you see down at the grocery store...isn't accurate.

If a person can drink alcoholic wine without getting drunk, then that would not be a sin...but there's no good reason to drink toxic substances such as alcohol, because alcohol itself has no medical value...alcohol itself only damages the physical body, not help it.

On the other hand, fresh grape juice has numerous health benefits...

 

[prophecyistrue]

Concerning actual wine, the bible talks about new wine (the fresh fruit of the vine...grape juice containing NO alcohol!), and old wine (wine that is no longer fresh, is fermenting and now contains alcohol).

To say all wine is like the wine you see down at the grocery store...isn't accurate.

If a person can drink alcoholic wine without getting drunk, then that would not be a sin...but there's no good reason to drink toxic substances such as alcohol, because alcohol itself has no medical value...alcohol itself only damages the physical body, not help it.

On the other hand, fresh grape juice has numerous health benefits...

again your making an assumption, that the only wine, God fearing people drank was new wine and from the whole of scripture, this does not bear truth, and there is sufficient data that says there is alot of benefit from small amounts of wine, although seeing the way you feel about it, It definately would be a sin for you to drink it and others that know your stand shouldn't drink it in front of you either lest they be a stumbling block to you

 

[KM Richards]

there is sufficient data that says there is alot of benefit from small amounts of wine

No, modern science has found health benefits (through real time testing on people) of drinking juice from grapes as well as from other fruits.

I don't recall seeing any data showing that drinking the toxic substance of alcohol helps the body...we know if is very damaging to the liver and the brain.

If you know of any testing data that specifically shows that alcohol has health benefits, please do share that. I'd be interested in seeing who's payroll they are...er, I mean I'd like to see the data.

although seeing the way you feel about it, It definitely would be a sin for you to drink it and others that know your stand shouldn't drink it in front of you either lest they be a stumbling block to you

I have no iniquity in my heart for drinking alcohol to get drunk, or for any reason whatsoever.

In fact, back when I did drink...it was bourbon and coke that I liked, and I hated wine because when I got drunk on wine it gave me a terrible headache not mention it tasted terrible to me...I just never liked wine

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Concerning actual wine, the bible talks about new wine (the fresh fruit of the vine...grape juice containing NO alcohol!), and old wine (wine that is no longer fresh, is fermenting and now contains alcohol).

To say all wine is like the wine you see down at the grocery store...isn't accurate.

If a person can drink alcoholic wine without getting drunk, then that would not be a sin...but there's no good reason to drink toxic substances such as alcohol, because alcohol itself has no medical value...alcohol itself only damages the physical body, not help it.

On the other hand, fresh grape juice has numerous health benefits...

The Bible says one should not put new wine in old wine-skins; why? New wine will ferment due to the natural yeast present on the grapes while still on the vine. New skins will stretch and not burst, old skins are all ready stretched, and will burst, losing their contents. Old wine, on the other hand, can be put in old skins, because the fermentation is complete.

Many studies have conducted in France, Spain and elsewhere, that have shown reduced cardio-vascular disease despite high fat and high cholesterol in their diets as well as other benefits. The variable identified was higher and more regular consumption of red wine compared to North America.

Links, if you are truly interested: Red wine
Your Diet - Food - 4Health from Channel 4

HEALTH BENEFITS OF WINE | Unique Articles

...And there are many others.

This is pure speculation on my part, but could the "stomach" problems have been angina, which feels similar to heart burn?

 

[Optimax]

Hi Sam; you can indeed ask questions, but may not debate the answers in denominational and faith group forums that are not your own. If you wish to open a thread where debate is allowed you can do it here:

Theology (Christian Only); pick the sub-forum which best suits your topic, and go to it!

BTW, welcome to CF!

Mark
Staff Supervisor

The Bible says one should not put new wine in old wine-skins; why? New wine will ferment due to the natural yeast present on the grapes while still on the vine. New skins will stretch and not burst, old skins are all ready stretched, and will burst, losing their contents. Old wine, on the other hand, can be put in old skins, because the fermentation is complete.

Many studies have conducted in France, Spain and elsewhere, that have shown reduced cardio-vascular disease despite high fat and high cholesterol in their diets as well as other benefits. The variable identified was higher and more regular consumption of red wine compared to North America.

Links, if you are truly interested: Red wine
Your Diet - Food - 4Health from Channel 4

HEALTH BENEFITS OF WINE | Unique Articles

...And there are many others.

This is pure speculation on my part, but could the "stomach" problems have been angina, which feels similar to heart burn?

Hi Sam (Mark)