Why did Jewish Christianity die out in the first few centuries of the church?

ralliann

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It matters a lot what came before. The tile of this thread is "Why did Jewish Christianity die out in the first few centuries of the church" The church means Christianity, not specifically the Catholic church. The earliest churches described by Paul and others were not Catholic.
Right but the complaints are about the Historic Catholic Church as the Church in which they think it died out. It didn't, they maintain a priesthood. modeled after the "Jewish" (actually Levitical) priesthood. Which priesthood even in Judaism is neither "Jew" nor "Gentile", but Levitical.
 
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Radagast

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Is this true for Jewish Christians in Israel (or the region at least). At what point did they cease to exist in Jerusalem?

Jews were evicted from the city of Jerusalem in 135 AD. We have a list of the ancient Christians bishops of Jerusalem; after 135 AD we start to see Greek names on the list.
 
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Radagast

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In a chapter on Jewish Christianity, the author defines this as Christians who observed Jewish rites such as circumcision or food laws.

One reason why that vanished is that the New Testament is so totally opposed to retaining "Jewish rites such as circumcision or food laws."
 
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ralliann

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One reason why that vanished is that the New Testament is so totally opposed to retaining "Jewish rites such as circumcision or food laws."
Not for Jews though. The only way that that became unacceptable is if these things were made of benefit in the Church as a whole. As you say there were Jewish bishops which were Jews because they kept those things as Jews, not as Christians.
 
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Radagast

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Not for Jews though.

The New Testament teaches that there are no "Jews" and "Gentiles" in Christ, just Christians.

As you say there were Jewish bishops which were Jews because they kept those things as Jews, not as Christians.

I said that there were Christian bishops in Jerusalem with Jewish names (starting with James, whose real name is Iakōbos). I did not say that these Christian bishops followed Jewish law, and I don't think that they did.
 
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ralliann

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The problem with a lot of this discussion is that it's based on writings by the groups that won, but which do not show you what led up to it. A good source would be "The Ways That Never Parted: Jews and Christians in Late Antiquity and the Early Middle Ages", ed Adam H. Becker, Adam H. Becker, Annette Yoshiko Reed. The picture one gets from recent work is that up to Constantine, Judaism was a lot more varied than the Talmud and the catholic and proto-catholic writers imply. In many cities, Jews took an active role in the city, which would involve sacrifices to the city gods. This was not viewed as a problem by many, maybe even most Jews. Neither was Christianity. Similarly, many Christians saw no problem with observing the Sabbath, and joining in various Jewish activities.

That makes it hard to define exactly what "Jewish Christianity" was. Probably the real definition would be ethnic Jews who accepted Christ in one way or another. The implication one often gets is that this was a small remnant of James' people from the first century, who slowly died away. But with the large overlaps that actually occurred between people who hung around the synagogues and churches, that would be misleading.

While most remaining literature is from the people who wanted to purify Judaism and Christianity, there are remaining books that one would normally classify as Jewish, but which also accept Christ in one way or another, e.g. the Pseudo-Clementines.

What I've been reading recently suggests that what finally caused a split was when the Roman government adopted Christianity, and supported its leaders' attempt to purify Christianity.
Wouldn't that be true also of rabbinic Judaism? I say this because you mention the Talmud and how Judaism was more varied than it implied.
I think the destruction of the temple also may have been the beginnings of a shift. Judaism was indeed practiced by the Apostles and Jew's. There was a clear distinction in this IMO. Whatever the Christian assembly did as an assembled body was distinct from Temple assembly and private from it.
 
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ralliann

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The New Testament teaches that there are no "Jews" and "Gentiles" in Christ, just Christians.
yes in Christ we are neither nor. But we know the apostles kept the law. Paul speaks to churches as he is on his way to Jerusalem hoping to keep unleavened bread at the temple. We know he was accused falsely of bringing a non Jew there.

I said that there were Christian bishops in Jerusalem with Jewish names (starting with James, whose real name is Iakōbos). I did not say that these Christian bishops followed Jewish law, and I don't think that they did.
James was Jewish, and the history says they were Jewish. So I am sorry I misunderstood that you did not also mean the same.
 
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Radagast

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yes in Christ we are neither nor. But we know the apostles kept the law.

The Apostle Paul writes very clearly that we need not keep the ceremonial law.

James was Jewish

He was Jewish in origin. He had a Jewish name. Did he follow Jewish law after Pentecost? I see no evidence of that.
 
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ralliann

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The Apostle Paul writes very clearly that we need not keep the ceremonial law.
Yes I already said that. I spoke of the Church as a whole not doing that.


He was Jewish in origin. He had a Jewish name. Did he follow Jewish law after Pentecost? I see no evidence of that.
Are we speaking of the same James?
Ac 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
 
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Messerve

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The New Testament teaches that there are no "Jews" and "Gentiles" in Christ, just Christians.

Well it also says no male or female, but obviously that's not to be taken in it's literal sense. It's simply to point out that under the Gospel no one is at an advantage over the other because we all sinned and deserved death and we all were saved through Jesus.
 
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ralliann

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Well it also says no male or female, but obviously that's not to be taken in it's literal sense. It's simply to point out that under the Gospel no one is at an advantage over the other because we all sinned and deserved death and we all were saved through Jesus.
Circumcision of the heart distinguishes neither male nor female, Jew nor Gentile in the literal sense.
 
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ralliann

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hedrick wrote "The OP asked a historical question."

This is a very important clarifying point. The question in the OP was not meant to be value laden i.e. should the early church had adhered to the Torah or not - but why did Torah observance die out?
Judaism shifted after the temple was destroyed. The temple was central in the first century for worship. The synagogue took on a different function when the temple was destroyed. The synagogue being places of scripture learning, began to take on aspects of temple function (Torah observance). That is why the synagogue has historically been called temple. A diminished one, but referred to as going to temple in the past. A controversial thing within Judaism by some.
As for the Church, and the op, Torah keeping is what distinguished "Jewish" doesn't it? So, it is not beyond the scope to ask what "Jewishness" was left out of the early Church, that was in the Jewish Church? As the historic Church sees the Christian priesthood as being foreshadowed in the Levitical ("Jewish) priesthood. And not having died out.
 
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ralliann

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Though the three offices specified in the NT church are bishops(=overseers). elders and deacons.
Bishops are priests aren't they?
But we see the Apostles seen themselves as a priesthood.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

But what I am wanting to know is what is it that that made their "Christianity" Jewish.
 
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Vanellus

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All Christian believers are priests:

To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offence.”
They stumble because they disobey the word—and to this they were appointed.

9But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

The answer to your question is in the OP.
 
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ralliann

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All Christian believers are priests:

To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offence.”
They stumble because they disobey the word—and to this they were appointed.

9But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

The answer to your question is in the OP.
Ok so it is Christianity to have Sacraments such as
"Jewish rites such as circumcision or food laws."
Got it.
 
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ralliann

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For most Christians it isn't now but for many Jews who became Christians in the NT era it was "Jewish Christianity" to keep the Torah laws. This is the reason for the OP. Why did Torah observance (mostly) die out in the early church?
Yeah, I got it. It's about original (ie apostolic) "Christianity" being inclusive of practicing Jewish sacraments. For most Christians now, as well as Jews
Jewish sacraments are "Judaism" and historically "Christian Jews" being "sectarian" by nature of the sacraments of Christians as all "Christianity".
 
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