Why did Jesus Leave?

[Archaeopteryx]

It may "fall flat" for you, but it certainly doesn't for everyone. I'm not the only one who considers the Bible to be authoritative, obviously. As this is a Christian forum, there are others here who do as well.

So what?

Perhaps if I was on a secular forum I would agree that quoting the Bible is irrelevant, but this isn't a secular forum.

If you want to be taken seriously, then you'll make a greater effort to present an argument worth considering. Quoting scripture might suffice in the General Theology forum, where the standards are lax, but this isn't General Theology.

Oh, and once again, I am not "surprised." Do you think I don't know that not everyone accepts the Bible? Of course I know that.

Then why present it at all? If you're not going to give us a reason to consider it an authority, then your arguments will fall flat, as I've already noted.

 

[SteveB28]

And yet someone can certainly have the intent to damage someone's faith, with the hope that that is exactly where such damage will lead.

Some people seem to think that doing such things is doing Christians a favour, as they seem to believe Christians are unintelligent and don't think for themselves.

Again, no one can damage your faith. People who move away from supernatural belief do that entirely on their own. Beliefs can neither be chosen, nor forced onto (or out of) a person.

Stop playing the victim.

 

[amariselle]

So what?

If you want to be taken seriously, then you'll make a greater effort to present an argument worth considering. Quoting scripture might suffice in the General Theology forum, where the standards are lax, but this isn't General Theology.

Interesting.

Then why present it at all? If you're not going to give us a reason to consider it an authority, then your arguments will fall flat, as I've already noted.

I don't need to defend the Bible or God.

 

[amariselle]

Again, no one can damage your faith. People who move away from supernatural belief do that entirely on their own. Beliefs can neither be chosen, nor forced onto (or out of) a person.

Stop playing the victim.

Once again, I am not concerned about myself.

And you're wrong, people can and do damage other people's faith, and some do so intentionally.

 

[SteveB28]

Once again, I am not concerned about myself.

And you're wrong, people can and do damage other people's faith, and some do so intentionally.

Nonsense. How can anything that I say cause you to cease believing something that you weren't going to drop anyway? If, for example, I was to explain to a biblical literalist that there was a huge amount of evidence for an ancient earth and I showed them where that evidence lay, any change they might experience in their belief would entirely be a result of them examining that evidence and finding that they accepted it.

 

[Deidre32]

But I never claimed to "know for sure" that there is no God. More precisely, I don't believe there is one because the reasons given in support of that belief are not sufficient to justify its acceptance.

You are assuming that I have a burden of proof in this situation, but I'm not the one making a claim in need of support. You are. My only burden is to explain why I don't accept your claim as true. I don't accept it as true because it hasn't been adequately supported.

You are assuming I care what you think about my beliefs. I honestly don't. lol

 

[amariselle]

Nonsense. How can anything that I say cause you to cease believing something that you weren't going to drop anyway? If, for example, I was to explain to a biblical literalist that there was a huge amount of evidence for an ancient earth and I showed them where that evidence lay, any change they might experience in their belief would entirely be a result of them examining that evidence and finding that they accepted it.

So you don't think that our words or actions can affect others. Interesting.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What "story"? There wouldn't be a "story" if He didn't actually do what He did.

That's a silly thing to say...surely you don't believe the same is true for the stories of other religions. Do you think there wouldn't be any Vedas if Shiva wasn't real? Most scholars agree Moses wasn't real...yet his story had a huge impact on many people and history itself. Whether Jesus existed or not...the overwhelming number of people his story influenced never met him in real life. There's no part of history that he left a mark on...it's arguably all his story.

Why does it matter what He looked like? Should His physical appearance be what someone's faith is based on? (And some people DO believe they know what He looked like due to their belief that the Turin shroud is authentic. So what? What does that really change?

Having a living Jesus to compare to an actual bust made from his head would verify that it's the same guy. You asked what would prove that it's really a living 2000+ year old Jesus...I gave you an answer.

Actually, they ALL have problems and relic veneration is in itself a problem. I didn't include that list because I think all of those relics are authentic and important to the Christian faith, quite the opposite actually.

Really? You think they're all real? I've read that if you added up all the claimed pieces of the "True cross" you could build a large boat or a small house....they're obviously fakes. Christianity has a long history of faking evidence for Christ....you should look into, read up on it.

Of course not. Jesus makes it clear that many will claim they are the Messiah, but not to believe them. When Jesus returns there will be no mistaking it, as everyone will see His return and know it is Him.

And how will everyone know? Frankly, I think he could be here right now and most christians wouldn't buy it.

I wouldn't be calling people "suckers", but if you wish to be derogatory and condescending, that's you choice of course.

Recently there was a group of Filipinos who thought they had found a "fallen angel on a beach...claimed they could hear it crying and everything. It turned out to be a blow up doll sex toy. Suckers is an accurate word in most of these cases.

What I think is that people are people, we always want some kind of "evidence", and for some the evidence they seek is signs, wonders and miracles. Faith in these things is misplaced faith, just as faith in material evidence is misplaced faith.

Evidence doesn't require any faith at all....just an understanding of what evidence is and what it shows.

Since this is a forum where what we write and how we write it is important for getting our point across, perhaps it's best to be clear about what we're saying, rather than choosing vague wording.

I try to be brief since I post from my phone. I just don't understand why you thought I was talking about belief in Jesus when I was talking only about the belief that he died. At least it's cleared up now though.

 

[SteveB28]

So you don't think that our words or actions can affect others. Interesting.

Please don't try to tell me what I think or don't think. Your track record has shown that you fail miserably when you try to put words in others' mouths.

Of course our words and actions can affect others. But I never said they didn't, did I?

 

[Ana the Ist]

You are assuming I care what you think about my beliefs. I honestly don't. lol

I am interested in your beliefs. I know I've asked you a few times for the reasons why you were an atheist when you first came to this forum...but I don't recall you ever responding.

Would you mind responding now? I'm curious about it....

 

[devolved]

Once again, I am not concerned about myself.

And you're wrong, people can and do damage other people's faith, and some do so intentionally.

There's nothing to damage. Faith is a construct that has to be imagined.

How can someone damage your imagination? All I am doing is comparing your imagination to reality... and it's up to you to decide whether it matches reality or it doesn't.

 

[amariselle]

Please don't try to tell me what I think or don't think. Your track record has shown that you fail miserably when you try to put words in others' mouths.

Of course our words and actions can affect others. But I never said they didn't, did I?

I'm doing no such thing. You clearly said:

Again, no one can damage your faith.

I disagree, our words can be very damaging.

 

[amariselle]

There's nothing to damage. Faith is a construct that has to be imagined.

How can someone damage your imagination? All I am doing is comparing your imagination to reality... and it's up to you to decide whether it matches reality or it doesn't.

Well, first of all, your definition of faith is entirely incorrect. I do not just "imagine" God.

Secondly, even if I did, you would still be incorrect. People can in fact damage the imagination of others.

However, since you mention it, my faith in God does match up with reality, thank you. I find nothing at all in reality that conflicts with the existence of God.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I don't need to defend the Bible or God.

But you do need to defend your claims about the Bible.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Once again, I am not concerned about myself.

And you're wrong, people can and do damage other people's faith, and some do so intentionally.

When I asked you why you thought the erosion of faith would be "terrible," you repeatedly declined to answer.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You are assuming I care what you think about my beliefs. I honestly don't. lol

Okay, but that doesn't remotely address my comments.

 

[amariselle]

But you do need to defend your claims about the Bible.

Well, I have certainly given reasons for the hope I have. However, I am not responsible for whether or not those reasons are accepted. Everyone must choose for themselves, God forces Himself on no one.

 

[amariselle]

When I asked you why you thought the erosion of faith would be "terrible," you repeatedly declined to answer.

You know the answer. Why would I waste time answering a rhetorical question? Again, I'm not here to play games.

 

[SteveB28]

I'm doing no such thing. You clearly said:



I disagree, our words can be very damaging.

But they can't change your beliefs. YOU do that!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Well, I have certainly given reasons for the hope I have. However, I am not responsible for whether or not those reasons are accepted. Everyone must choose for themselves, God forces Himself on no one.

You have declined to answer a number of questions and/or have refused to engage with the responses to your answers, which deal with the merits of those answers.