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No one claiming to be a messiah? Oh come on...
Yeah, that's what every messiah says about himself. Yours wasn't special in that regard.Did I say that? Actually, I have acknowledged that people claim to be the Messiah even today. (And more will continue to do so) Jesus actually warned about this very thing.
You misunderstood me, what I was saying is that no one else IS the Messiah, only Jesus.
Excuse me, but you abandoned a thread because you refused to answer the questions put to you. So who is "playing games"?
More precisely, this is the philosophy forum.
Why does that concern you? If the discussion here encourages them to consider their faith more closely, why would that be a bad thing?
Yeah, that's what every messiah says about himself. Yours wasn't special in that regard.
Yeah, that's what every messiah says about himself. Yours wasn't special in that regard.
I believe my beliefs to be true.And so long as we are happy with our respective beliefs, it doesn't matter whether they're true? Is that what you're saying?
But I can explain to you why I don't believe it to be true.
It provides a valid option.... why are you responding to a thread discussing His ascension/leaving? What do you hope to accomplish?
That's all you think Jesus was? A "Jewish rabble rouser?"
Fair enough. If that's all you believe about Him, of course that will be your reasoning.
No, you abandoned the thread, refusing to answer the questions put to you. Shall I quote the questions you didn't answer?Do we REALLY need to go over this again? Seriously? I DID answer your questions, you just didn't like my answers, and so you chose to ask the same questions over and over in the hopes that I would perhaps answer differently.
Philosophy is philosophy. It's not about "Christian viewpoints," but about the reasoning behind one's positions.The Philosophy forum on a CHRISTIAN website. If someone doesn't want to encounter so many Christian viewpoints in response to Christian questions, surely there are other forums out there for non-Christian philosophy topics?
Why do assume that that's a bad thing? My faith has eroded, and I don't consider that a bad thing.Did I say that my concern was that they would "consider their faith more closely"? Of course not, we should all do that. I said that my concern was that their faith would be shaken or damaged. Should I not be concerned for my brothers and sisters in Christ?
My purpose is conversation, as I already made clear on many occasions.Just an honest question though, why did you choose to respond to a thread entitled "Why Did Jesus Leave?" Is your purpose truly to get Christians to "consider their faith more closely"?
My opinion? No, it's a fact that there are individuals who have claimed to be messiah and have asserted to be the only one. Saying "that's just your opinion" seems to be your go-to retort when you haven't got anything better to say.Your opinion. Obviously many here and elsewhere don't agree with you on that. You can state it as fact all you want, that doesn't mean it is.
I never said that my sole reason for being here was to encourage Christians to "consider their faith more closely." You are misinterpreting my words, whether deliberately or through ignorance. In any case, I think you're wrong. Pointing out that Jesus wasn't special (in claiming to be a messiah) might very well encourage someone to consider their faith more closely. They might ask questions such as, "If others have also claimed to be the one true messiah, how do I know that Jesus really is? What distinguishes him from the others?"When I consider this statement, and others like it that have been made on various threads and sub-forums on this site, I fail to see how the motive behind such words is to get any Christian to "consider their faith more closely."
I don't think that people who say such things are attempting to do anything of the sort. When you say to Christians on a Christian forum that their Saviour and Messiah, Jesus, "wasn't very special", no kind of honest encouragement to "consider their faith more closely" is coming across, and if you're honest with yourself, you know that. (And I truly believe you know that full well).
Obviously you do, but that doesn't remotely answer my question.I believe my beliefs to be true.
When I consider this statement, and others like it that have been made on various threads and sub-forums on this site, I fail to see how the motive behind such words is to get any Christian to "consider their faith more closely."
I don't think that people who say such things are attempting to do anything of the sort. When you say to Christians on a Christian forum that their Saviour and Messiah, Jesus, "wasn't very special", no kind of honest encouragement to "consider their faith more closely" is coming across, and if you're honest with yourself, you know that. (And I truly believe you know that full well).
No, you abandoned the thread, refusing to answer the questions put to you. Shall I quote the questions you didn't answer?
Philosophy is philosophy. It's not about "Christian viewpoints," but about the reasoning behind one's positions.
Why do assume that that's a bad thing? My faith has eroded, and I don't consider that a bad thing.
My purpose is conversation, as I already made clear on many occasions.
My opinion? No, it's a fact that there are individuals who have claimed to be messiah and have asserted to be the only one. Saying "that's just your opinion" seems to be your go-to retort when you haven't got anything better to say.
I never said that my sole reason for being here was to encourage Christians to "consider their faith more closely." You are misinterpreting my words, whether deliberately or through ignorance. In any case, I think you're wrong. Pointing out that Jesus wasn't special (in claiming to be a messiah) might very well encourage someone to consider their faith more closely. They might ask questions such as, "If others have also claimed to be the one true messiah, how do I know that Jesus really is? What distinguishes him from the others?"
That's plainly what those of the time thought of him......if he existed. After all, they did kill him didn't they?
He certainly wasn't very special (if he existed) in claiming to be a messiah in first century Palestine. Josephus et al report that there a significant number of apocalyptic preachers making a name for themselves at that time. In that regard, there was nothing unique about him.
The problem seems to be that you think any answer you give is sufficient to satisfy the question. It's not. You had no satisfactory answer to our questions about whether Yahweh is morally obligated to intervene or not. You then abandoned the thread. That's fine. You aren't obligated to continue the discussion. But don't accuse others of "playing games" if that's the way you want to "play" it.Quote the questions all you want, it doesn't prove I didn't answer them.
The problem is, I shouldn't have even bothered, because it seems you were never interested in any answers other than the ones you were specifically looking for, and ever since then you have accused me of not answering at all.
Yes, it does pertain to Christianity. But this isn't a Q&A forum where non-Christians ask a question, have it answered by a Christian, and then the thread is closed. That seems to be your impression.Does the question "Why Did Jesus Leave?" pertain to the Christian faith or not?
There actually IS such a thing as Christian Philosophy. Philosophy is impacted by particular worldviews, like it or not.
Why would it be a terrible thing?I think that's a terrible thing.
What relevance does my interest in this specific thread have to do with you?So, why are you interested in the question "Why Did Jesus Leave?" You've already made it quite clear that you don't believe Jesus "was anything special" to begin with.
"That's like, your opinion man."Once again....I never said that no one else has ever claimed to be the Messiah, and Jesus Himself warned of this. What I actually said was, it is your opinion that Jesus isn't the Messiah.
Are you able to deal with what I've actually written rather than inventing positions for me?Except, you aren't just saying that His claims of being the Messiah were "nothing special", you are saying that He WASN'T the Messiah at all, and that He is just like everyone else who claimed to be. So, what are you honestly hoping to accomplish by saying these things on a Christian forum?
The problem seems to be that you think any answer you give is sufficient to satisfy the question. It's not. You had no satisfactory answer to our questions about whether Yahweh is morally obligated to intervene or not. You then abandoned the thread. That's fine. You aren't obligated to continue the discussion. But don't accuse others of "playing games" if that's the way you want to "play" it.
Yes, it does pertain to Christianity. But this isn't a Q&A forum where non-Christians ask a question, have it answered by a Christian, and then the thread is closed. That seems to be your impression.
Why would it be a terrible thing?
What relevance does my interest in this specific thread have to do with you?
"That's like, your opinion man."
Can you point to the post where I said that he wasn't the messiah? More precisely, I said that he wasn't the only one to have claimed to be such. Are you able to deal with what I've actually written rather than inventing positions for me?
Ah, so you do think that any answer you give will automatically be good enough, even if, upon examination, it really isn't. It's not so much about genuinely satisfying the question then, but about being able to say, "I gave an answer." You might as well add, "Sure, it was badly reasoned, but at least it was an answer!"I'm not "playing" at all, my faith in Jesus is not a game to me and never will be.
And thank you for clarifying that I gave an answer, but that you didn't find it "satisfactory", this was my point. Now we can move on I hope.
Yes, but asked on the Philosophy board, not on the Exploring Christianity board. You need to revise your expectations accordingly.The question "Why Did Jesus Leave?" pertains specifically to His ascension, which was clarified further in the OP regarding the usual explanations for His leaving. As such this question is very much a Christian one.
I don't consider it self-explanatory at all, so you'll need to explain. Why is it such a terrible thing for one's faith to erode?I think that is self-explanatory, and as you were a Christian, I don't need to spell it out for you.
You do understand that you've ventured onto the Philosophy forum, correct?Your interest is "relevant" to me if all you want to do is pick apart the Christian faith. (On a Christian forum)
As you are fond of reminding us.It's true, we ALL have opinions.
I see no reason to believe his claims about being a messiah, assuming that he did indeed make such claims and that they were not attributed to him by others.Ok, fair enough. Do you believe that Jesus was telling the truth when He said He is the Messiah?
Ah, so you do think that any answer you give will automatically be good enough, even if, upon examination, it really isn't. It's not so much about genuinely satisfying the question then, but about being able to say, "I gave an answer." You might as well add, "Sure, it was badly reasoned, but at least it was an answer!"
Yes, but asked on the Philosophy board, not on the Exploring Christianity board. You need to revise your expectations accordingly.
I don't consider it self-explanatory at all, so you'll need to explain. Why is it such a terrible thing for one's faith to erode?
You do understand that you've ventured onto the Philosophy forum, correct?
As you are fond of reminding us.
I see no reason to believe his claims about being a messiah, assuming that he did indeed make such claims and that they were not attributed to him by others.
There aren't many Christians to torment on an Atheist forum.Then, I ask again, what are you hoping to accomplish by saying that "Jesus was nothing special" on a Christian forum?
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