Why did God create you?

[fide]

As someone mentioned above, this is why God created all things,

Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure, they are and were created."

What do you suppose, given that God is perfect and lacking nothing, what gives God "pleasure"?

 

[Major1]

What do you suppose, given that God is perfect and lacking nothing, what gives God "pleasure"?

Seeing a lost soul come to Christ.

Colossians 1:19........
“For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,”.

 

[TedT]

Seeing a lost soul come to Christ.

Colossians 1:19........
“For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,”.

To believe in inherited sin or sinfulness or the inherited consequences for sin in any way then you must accept that before the lost soul can come to Christ it must first be created outside of Christ, lost and condemned...which to me contradicts HIS pleasure.

 

[PloverWing]

How do you understand this teaching:

Rom 13:11​

I guess you are trying to say something......but I have no clue what it is.

@fide , I don't know what you're trying to say to Major1 either. My best guess is that you want to say salvation is a process instead of one moment of conversion, but I'm just guessing, based on how Catholics and Evangelicals tend to see things.

Are you willing to say plainly and straightforwardly what point you're trying to make with Romans 13:11?

 

[fide]

Seeing a lost soul come to Christ.

Colossians 1:19........
“For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,”.

But how does that add something to the already perfect God? Is His pre-salvation event inadequate for His state of pleasure? I'm asking you to find more than "pleasure" for God. What does divine "pleasure" mean to you?

 

[fide]

@fide , I don't know what you're trying to say to Major1 either. My best guess is that you want to say salvation is a process instead of one moment of conversion, but I'm just guessing, based on how Catholics and Evangelicals tend to see things.

Are you willing to say plainly and straightforwardly what point you're trying to make with Romans 13:11?

Can you tell me what you mean, when you say "salvation is a process"? As an Anglican, maybe you mean what I would mean by the phrase, but these days it is hard to take anything for granted.

 

[Major1]

But how does that add something to the already perfect God? Is His pre-salvation event inadequate for His state of pleasure? I'm asking you to find more than "pleasure" for God. What does divine "pleasure" mean to you?

Actually what you are doing is posing philosophical proposition's.

Philosophy is exactly what you are doing and it does nothing but go from one question to another without ever being satisfied with an answer. You may not realize what you are doing and now that I have said that to you, I doubt if you will accept it but it is what it is.

I guess the real question you should be asking is....what is God's view of pleasure?????

What event or happening could God find more pleasure in than a lost person being saved. That is what He have Jesus for!

What then is the definition of "Philosophy"??????

It is like as blind man in a room painted black, with the lights out trying to find a black cat.

 

[Major1]

@fide , I don't know what you're trying to say to Major1 either. My best guess is that you want to say salvation is a process instead of one moment of conversion, but I'm just guessing, based on how Catholics and Evangelicals tend to see things.

Are you willing to say plainly and straightforwardly what point you're trying to make with Romans 13:11?

Thank God I am not on a island by myself. I was beginning to think that it was just me!

Thank you for your question to Fide!

 

[Major1]

Can you tell me what you mean, when you say "salvation is a process"? As an Anglican, maybe you mean what I would mean by the phrase, but these days it is hard to take anything for granted.

See.....you did not answer the question posed to you....you just asked another question!

That is the perfect example of 'Philosophy".

 

[fide]

Again .....3rd time. WHAT are you wanting me to hear?

WHAT is your point?

Is there a Bible Scripture that you would like to have explained to you?

Why are you being so, shall I say.....deceptive?

Major1, did your question ("Is there a Bible Scripture that you would like to have explained to you?") flow easily, quickly from your mouth, without obstruction of hesitation? Are you quite confident that you can "explain" any verse offered to you from anyone you meet?

Several passages of Holy Scripture come to me, in pondering your offer to "explain" to me. I'm not asking you for your explanation - relax. I'm only offering them as precious truths to listen to:

1) Isa 66:2 All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the LORD. But this is the man to whom I will look, he that is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at my word.

2) Jn 9:39 Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."
Jn 9:40 Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, "Are we also blind?"
Jn 9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains.

3) Lk 7:44 Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house, you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.
Lk 7:45 You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet.
Lk 7:46 You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment.
Lk 7:47 Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."
Lk 7:48 And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
Lk 7:49 Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this, who even forgives sins?"
Lk 7:50 And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

 

[Major1]

To believe in inherited sin or sinfulness or the inherited consequences for sin in any way then you must accept that before the lost soul can come to Christ it must first be created outside of Christ, lost and condemned...which to me contradicts HIS pleasure.

I accept the Scriptures.

According to those Scriptures, All people have inherited a sin nature from the first humans, specifically from Adam.

Romans 3:23......
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

Romans 5:12........
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned."

We inherit our sinful nature similar to the way we inherit our parent's physical characteristics. David wrote in Psalms 51:5......
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me".

As a result of inherited sin, we are sinful in nature and sinful in practice. We commit sins because we were born with the nature to do so. Very few would deny that people make mistakes in this life, yet many do not wish to accept the biblical view that people are born as sinners. Yet the best explanation for the universal practice of sin in our world is that it is part of our human nature. This does not excuse us from sin, but it does explain why we sin and that is because we sin.

 

[Major1]

Major1, did your question ("Is there a Bible Scripture that you would like to have explained to you?") flow easily, quickly from your mouth, without obstruction of hesitation? Are you quite confident that you can "explain" any verse offered to you from anyone you meet?

Several passages of Holy Scripture come to me, in pondering your offer to "explain" to me. I'm not asking you for your explanation - relax. I'm only offering them as precious truths to listen to:

1) Isa 66:2 All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the LORD. But this is the man to whom I will look, he that is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at my word.

2) Jn 9:39 Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."
Jn 9:40 Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, "Are we also blind?"
Jn 9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains.

3) Lk 7:44 Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house, you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.
Lk 7:45 You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet.
Lk 7:46 You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment.
Lk 7:47 Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."
Lk 7:48 And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
Lk 7:49 Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this, who even forgives sins?"
Lk 7:50 And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

You have taken my offer to the extreme. I was simply offering to help you if I could as you seem to be asking one question after another seeking something which you are reluctant to say.

I Am not a Bible expert and have never said I was. I do however have a couple of degrees in Bible Studies which is why I offered.

I am familiar with the Scriptures and over the years I have read them and allowed God to speak to me over them. Each one of them has given "preciouses truths to me" but once again.......what does that have to do with the price of Pepsi in China??????

 

[renniks]

But how does that add something to the already perfect God? Is His pre-salvation event inadequate for His state of pleasure? I'm asking you to find more than "pleasure" for God. What does divine "pleasure" mean to you?

I don't understand why being perfect would exclude God from having pleasure in events that happened in this world.
Scripture indicates that God experiences both pleasure and pain because of the actions of humans.

 

[TedT]

I accept the Scriptures.

According to those Scriptures, All people have inherited a sin nature from the first humans, specifically from Adam.

This reflects YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE SCRIPTURE... NOT the scriptures themselves. To imply that a differing interpretation does not accept scripture is arrogant.

Romans 5:12........
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned."

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death [not sin] came to all people, because all [had already] sinned—

The condemnation of sinners spoken of here is the judgement of death on sinners, NOT the imputation of sin unto non-sinners.

Which theological sleight of hand do you like best to prove that the one who sinned third brought sin into the world? The only straight forward method of taking this at face value is if Adam was a sinner before he was placed, moved, sown into the garden and brought this sin with him: Matt 13:36-39.

 

[JulieB67]

What do you suppose, given that God is perfect and lacking nothing, what gives God "pleasure"?

One instance is ultimately having people that he will want to spend an eternity with.

 

[PloverWing]

Can you tell me what you mean, when you say "salvation is a process"? As an Anglican, maybe you mean what I would mean by the phrase, but these days it is hard to take anything for granted.

The Christian life is (or should be) one in which we gradually, over time, become more Christ-like, more fully in that divine image that we were created to embody. I have heard Catholics use the word "salvation" to refer to this whole process. Evangelical Protestants are more likely to use the word "salvation" to refer to the initial step of committing one's self to Christ, and then use the separate word "sanctification" to refer to the lifelong process of becoming more Christ-like. Sometimes Evangelical Protestants downplay the process of sanctification and over-emphasize the initial commitment, and I think this is an error on their part, though it comes out of a desire to emphasize God's grace as a free gift.

So I was guessing that this lifelong process was what you were trying to hint at in your posts to Major1. Did I guess correctly? If not, could you explain the point your were trying to make?

 

[fide]

The Christian life is (or should be) one in which we gradually, over time, become more Christ-like, more fully in that divine image that we were created to embody. I have heard Catholics use the word "salvation" to refer to this whole process. Evangelical Protestants are more likely to use the word "salvation" to refer to the initial step of committing one's self to Christ, and then use the separate word "sanctification" to refer to the lifelong process of becoming more Christ-like. Sometimes Evangelical Protestants downplay the process of sanctification and over-emphasize the initial commitment, and I think this is an error on their part, though it comes out of a desire to emphasize God's grace as a free gift.

So I was guessing that this lifelong process was what you were trying to hint at in your posts to Major1. Did I guess correctly? If not, could you explain the point your were trying to make?

The Catholic Faith understands salvation to mean the final state of the human vocation into God - one's maker and redeemer - a state that can be lost during our struggle against the trials and temptations we meet in this fallen world. The beginning of this journey is Baptism, in which one receives sanctifying grace with the theological and moral virtues and gifts of the Holy Spirit, and forgiveness of original sin and any and all personal sins. This beginning is called justification, or sometimes for clarity "initial" justification. So 1) justification in Baptism, in which one is made to be in Christ; 2) normatively then a life in Him of growing in holiness and detachment from all evil, finally, hopefully, 3) a holy death in the state of grace, final salvation and beatitude.

Your first statement urges me to go into more detail here: "The Christian life is (or should be) one in which we gradually, over time, become more Christ-like, more fully in that divine image that we were created to embody." Are you familiar with the writings of Catholic spiritual theologians such as St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Jesus (of Avila), even Thomas Aquinas could be included here - many other writers of spirituality who recognize, experience, write of a process not well described as "gradually".

This process of which I am speaking is often called "Carmelite spirituality", but it is much more broadly accepted than just members of a Carmelite religious order.

Do you have any idea what I am speaking of here?

 

[fide]

One instance is ultimately having people that he will want to spend an eternity with.

If that sentence were used speaking of a human being, we could say that such a person is a bit self-centered in his outlook. In speaking of God, it would be better to understand that the happiness of God in gathering a man or woman into the beatitude of heaven, that His happiness comes in sharing the infinite goodness of eternal and divine Love with another - with one whom He created for such a beautiful destiny.

In other words, Love finds happiness in the good of the Beloved. To give that which is good to another, to one who is loved, is the essence of love itself. Love longs to give goodness. "Pleasure" may be a way to translate this, but in modern culture the word "pleasure" is a rather self-indulgent kind of self-satisfaction - motives not fitting to the All-Holy God.

 

[PloverWing]

The Catholic Faith understands salvation to mean the final state of the human vocation into God - one's maker and redeemer - a state that can be lost during our struggle against the trials and temptations we meet in this fallen world. The beginning of this journey is Baptism, in which one receives sanctifying grace with the theological and moral virtues and gifts of the Holy Spirit, and forgiveness of original sin and any and all personal sins. This beginning is called justification, or sometimes for clarity "initial" justification. So 1) justification in Baptism, in which one is made to be in Christ; 2) normatively then a life in Him of growing in holiness and detachment from all evil, finally, hopefully, 3) a holy death in the state of grace, final salvation and beatitude.

This paragraph is consistent with my understanding of the Catholic view of salvation.

It's also pretty close to my own view of the Christian life.

On how "gradual" everything is: I have read St John of the Cross and St Thomas Aquinas, though I confess I have not read St Teresa of Ávila, and I have only superficial knowledge of the Carmelite orders. I assume you have in mind the mystical experiences of union with God that some Christians have written about.

I'm inclined to think of growth in the Christian life as gradual because that has largely been the pattern of my own life. And even for the mystics, many of them had their experiences within the context of a disciplined monastic life; daily discipline has its place. But, yes, some people have extraordinary experiences of God that happen on some particular occasion, going well beyond the daily life of prayer and service. Is that what you have in mind?

 

[TedT]

that His happiness comes in sharing the infinite goodness of eternal and divine Love with another - with one whom He created for such a beautiful destiny.

Very agreeable!!!

But how do we reconcile the supposition that we are sinners at conception if conception is our creation with this purpose? How does our being created evil serve this purpose?