Why did God create you?

[fide]

This paragraph is consistent with my understanding of the Catholic view of salvation.

It's also pretty close to my own view of the Christian life.

On how "gradual" everything is: I have read St John of the Cross and St Thomas Aquinas, though I confess I have not read St Teresa of Ávila, and I have only superficial knowledge of the Carmelite orders. I assume you have in mind the mystical experiences of union with God that some Christians have written about.

I'm inclined to think of growth in the Christian life as gradual because that has largely been the pattern of my own life. And even for the mystics, many of them had their experiences within the context of a disciplined monastic life; daily discipline has its place. But, yes, some people have extraordinary experiences of God that happen on some particular occasion, going well beyond the daily life of prayer and service. Is that what you have in mind?

No, I have in mind what is the best-kept secret in Catholic spirituality. The secret is so guarded that almost no Catholics, not to mention non-Catholics, know anything about it. Books have been written on it, conference talks, adult formation sessions and so on, and still I think the majority of Catholics give it no credence and do not take it seriously, because most have not experienced it. I think most priests, if they heard of it in seminary, immediately filed in in trash when they got ordained and began teaching how to pray.

If you sense a bit of tension in my text about this, it is because I believe this school of (completely orthodox, and taught by saints and Doctors of the Church) spirituality is the key to growing in the life of grace - the life of prayer - the interior life of communion with God. Yet it is kept locked in a closet, so to speak, to this day.

The most systematic and complete discussion of this spirituality, I think, is from St. John of the Cross, The Ascent of Mt. Carmel. The most complete modern scholarly presentation of it is from Fr. R. Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., a two-volume jewel titled The Three Ages of the Interior Life. He also wrote Christian Perfection and Contemplation, similarly excellent. He also wrote a small brief paperback that has recently become available again on Amazon, The Three Conversions in the Spiritual Life. This last book has been republished in several titles - (I think the copyright maybe got lost for this book, and people have found digital copies on-line which they have printed in print-on-demand press through Amazon. - My guess). That book is well worth it as an introduction to the subject. There is another contemporary work I'm familiar with, that Amazon carries, The Ordinary Path to Holiness, that presents this classic spirituality in an introductory way intended for serious adults who long to grow in the spiritual life. I'd recommend any/all of these, and of course there are others as well.

The second title I've listed above contains a crucial truth, that makes all the difference in understanding what these spiritual giants have been entrusted with: Spiritual growth occurs in "ages" - as does the natural life - for those who cooperate with its inner dynamic and vitality.

The spiritual life in Christ is not a continuous incrementally advancing process from spiritual infant to spiritual mature "adulthood." The interior life - which is a supernatural life because it is the life of supernatural grace in the soul - advances (if indeed it does advance!) in stages, or "ages", just as God's plan for natural growth and maturation advances in discernible, discontinuous stages or ages: childhood to adolescence to adulthood.

And as we all know, that natural journey is characterized with radical differences in ages, as one grows. An adolescent is not a 13-year-old-child, only bigger and older. Puberty is a crisis event, bringing radical changes to the person, a bridge from childhood to adolescence that deeply changes the child, moving him toward adulthood in a dramatic and life-changing way. So it is also in the spiritual life - and so on....

This natural reality is a sign, a hint, of God's way in the supernatural realm of the life of grace in the soul. There is a "spiritual childhood"; there is a "spiritual adolescence"; there is a "spiritual adulthood". As St. Paul knew:

Eph 4:11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.
Eph 4:15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,​

 

[Ceallaigh]

Because He loves me.

 

[o_mlly]

The Truth does not change, not in time and not by sophistication. It is simple, no matter how complicated we can get!

The simplicity of the catechetical response to the purpose of human life had allowed the profoundness of its meaning to escape me for many years: “We are here to know, love and serve God” who is goodness personified. We cannot love who we do not know and we will not serve who we do not love.

We exist to come to know goodness; to love, that is be willfully and productively in pursuit of that goodness; and to serve, that is make all other pursuits, the chasing of apparent goods, secondary to our pursuit of real goods.

 

[fide]

The simplicity of the catechetical response to the purpose of human life had allowed the profoundness of its meaning to escape me for many years: “We are here to know, love and serve God” who is goodness personified. We cannot love who we do not know and we will not serve who we do not love.

We exist to come to know goodness; to love, that is be willfully and productively in pursuit of that goodness; and to serve, that is make all other pursuits, the chasing of apparent goods, secondary to our pursuit of real goods.

Are you satisfied that the profundity of the purpose of human life has now been accurately expressed in your post?

 

[fide]

Because He loves me.

God created (past tense) you because He loves (present tense) you?

 

[o_mlly]

Are you satisfied that the profundity of the purpose of human life has now been accurately expressed in your post?

Satisfied? Not yet. "You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you” (St. Augustine, "Confessions"). I hope soon, though.

 

[Major1]

God created (past tense) you because He loves (present tense) you?

Why does God love you my friend?

 

[Major1]

No, I have in mind what is the best-kept secret in Catholic spirituality. The secret is so guarded that almost no Catholics, not to mention non-Catholics, know anything about it. Books have been written on it, conference talks, adult formation sessions and so on, and still I think the majority of Catholics give it no credence and do not take it seriously, because most have not experienced it. I think most priests, if they heard of it in seminary, immediately filed in in trash when they got ordained and began teaching how to pray.

If you sense a bit of tension in my text about this, it is because I believe this school of (completely orthodox, and taught by saints and Doctors of the Church) spirituality is the key to growing in the life of grace - the life of prayer - the interior life of communion with God. Yet it is kept locked in a closet, so to speak, to this day.

The most systematic and complete discussion of this spirituality, I think, is from St. John of the Cross, The Ascent of Mt. Carmel. The most complete modern scholarly presentation of it is from Fr. R. Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., a two-volume jewel titled The Three Ages of the Interior Life. He also wrote Christian Perfection and Contemplation, similarly excellent. He also wrote a small brief paperback that has recently become available again on Amazon, The Three Conversions in the Spiritual Life. This last book has been republished in several titles - (I think the copyright maybe got lost for this book, and people have found digital copies on-line which they have printed in print-on-demand press through Amazon. - My guess). That book is well worth it as an introduction to the subject. There is another contemporary work I'm familiar with, that Amazon carries, The Ordinary Path to Holiness, that presents this classic spirituality in an introductory way intended for serious adults who long to grow in the spiritual life. I'd recommend any/all of these, and of course there are others as well.

The second title I've listed above contains a crucial truth, that makes all the difference in understanding what these spiritual giants have been entrusted with: Spiritual growth occurs in "ages" - as does the natural life - for those who cooperate with its inner dynamic and vitality.

The spiritual life in Christ is not a continuous incrementally advancing process from spiritual infant to spiritual mature "adulthood." The interior life - which is a supernatural life because it is the life of supernatural grace in the soul - advances (if indeed it does advance!) in stages, or "ages", just as God's plan for natural growth and maturation advances in discernible, discontinuous stages or ages: childhood to adolescence to adulthood.

And as we all know, that natural journey is characterized with radical differences in ages, as one grows. An adolescent is not a 13-year-old-child, only bigger and older. Puberty is a crisis event, bringing radical changes to the person, a bridge from childhood to adolescence that deeply changes the child, moving him toward adulthood in a dramatic and life-changing way. So it is also in the spiritual life - and so on....

This natural reality is a sign, a hint, of God's way in the supernatural realm of the life of grace in the soul. There is a "spiritual childhood"; there is a "spiritual adolescence"; there is a "spiritual adulthood". As St. Paul knew:

Eph 4:11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.
Eph 4:15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,​

Would you please post the "source" of your post?

Could it have been........."a summary of the spirituality of Saint John of the Cross | Catholic Strength'.

 

[Ceallaigh]

God created (past tense) you because He loves (present tense) you?

"Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love" Ephesians 1:3-5

 

[TedT]

"Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love" Ephesians 1:3-5

Unless you believe in the UNconditional election of some and the UNconditional reprobation of others, you must accept that there was a reason, condition, for this choice of HIS.

I do also.

I believe all spirits created in HIS image ie, able to be a suitable bride for HIM, were all there at the foundation of the world (and election) (Job 38:7 ...while the morning stars sang together and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy?) and that before HIS creation of the physical universe they heard HIS proclamation of Deity and the gospel of salvation as found in the Son as per Col 1:23 ...if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven,
when HE promised that everyone who accepted HIS proclamation by faith, their unroven hope, would become HIS chosen, elected to salvation and to be HIS bride while those who refused HIM and put their faith, their unproven hope, in HIM being a liar and a false god, would become eternally damned on the spot.

Thus saving faith was the condition for the election of some and faith in the lie was the condition for the reprobation of the others.

 

[Major1]

Unless you believe in the UNconditional election of some and the UNconditional reprobation of others, you must accept that there was a reason, condition, for this choice of HIS.

I do also.

I believe all spirits created in HIS image ie, able to be a suitable bride for HIM, were all there at the foundation of the world (and election) (Job 38:7 ...while the morning stars sang together and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy?) and that before HIS creation of the physical universe they heard HIS proclamation of Deity and the gospel of salvation as found in the Son as per Col 1:23 ...if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven,
when HE promised that everyone who accepted HIS proclamation by faith, their unroven hope, would become HIS chosen, elected to salvation and to be HIS bride while those who refused HIM and put their faith, their unproven hope, in HIM being a liar and a false god, would become eternally damned on the spot.

Thus saving faith was the condition for the election of some and faith in the lie was the condition for the reprobation of the others.

The Scripture you used of Job 38:7 is speaking of the "Angels" not humans.

In Cos. 1:23, Does Paul really mean that the gospel has reached every creature under heaven?

If so, it seems the gospel has already been proclaimed to every human being, making nonsense of Paul’s missionary efforts. Thus, this cannot be what Paul means. The best reading here is not that everyone has already heard the gospel, but rather that the gospel has been proclaimed, and that its intended audience is “every creature under heaven” and even nature itself declares that so no one is innocent.

 

[fide]

Would you please post the "source" of your post?

Could it have been........."a summary of the spirituality of Saint John of the Cross | Catholic Strength'.

I had not seen that site before, but I see the author of the article has used many of my own sources. If you personally are interested in pursuing this spirituality, I strongly suggest that you go to one or more of his sources, or of those few I suggested in my message. This spirituality must not be "studied" - it must be lived - experienced. Knowing about life is useless if it never leads to life itself.

 

[fide]

"Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love" Ephesians 1:3-5

So would you say that God created you (past tense) because He had already loved you before that?

 

[fide]

Would you please post the "source" of your post?

Could it have been........."a summary of the spirituality of Saint John of the Cross | Catholic Strength'.

Thinking more about my 1st response to you, I see that the site you gave does not refer to Fr. Jordan Aumann's book Spiritual Theology, which I would recommend highly. To anyone not well-read in the field of spirituality (I don't know whether that would include you or not - but for the sake of anyone reading this post who is a beginner in the serious work of advancing in the spiritual life) I would also want to say that the book "The Ordinary Path to Holiness" by Thomas Richard, a Catholic lay man, is an excellent place to begin. This book includes the essential subject of growing in the life of prayer, through the essential beginning of ascetical prayer, and the approach to - and entry into - the mystical prayer of infused contemplation. Growth in the interior life is inseparable from growth in the life of prayer. Other important related factors are also included in this book.

 

[TedT]

The Scripture you used of Job 38:7 is speaking of the "Angels" not humans.

It says, verbatim: all the SONS of GOD, NOT angles. Angels is used as an eisegetic help to steer us away from the horrors of this hint of our pre-earth existence because the translators believed angels are a different species from humans.

In fact I believe these people were spirits but not necessarily angels which is a job description, NOT a race or species designation. The angels are spirits just like the human spirit but not in a body...

 

[TedT]

In Cos. 1:23, Does Paul really mean that the gospel has reached every creature under heaven?

If so, it seems the gospel has already been proclaimed to every human being, making nonsense of Paul’s missionary efforts. Thus, this cannot be what Paul means.

When the people who heard the first proclamation as per Col 1:23, sinned and were sown into mankind, Matt 13:36-39, they lost this truth when they were born into mankind and most accepted the lie over the truth they had seen proven to them, Rom 1.

Thus the earthly proclamation is a repeat of the heavenly proclamation which we have been told about.

 

[Major1]

When the people who heard the first proclamation as per Col 1:23, sinned and were sown into mankind, Matt 13:36-39, they lost this truth when they were born into mankind and most accepted the lie over the truth they had seen proven to them, Rom 1.

Thus the earthly proclamation is a repeat of the heavenly proclamation which we have been told about.

????

I hope that I am not the only one here who has no clue what you are trying to say!

 

[Major1]

It says, verbatim: all the SONS of GOD, NOT angles. Angels is used as an eisegetic help to steer us away from the horrors of this hint of our pre-earth existence because the translators believed angels are a different species from humans.

In fact I believe these people were spirits but not necessarily angels which is a job description, NOT a race or species designation. The angels are spirits just like the human spirit but not in a body...

I do not agree. The "sons of God" in Job 38:7 by context are angels.

"Sons of God" depends on LOCATION through context.

To quote Matthew Poole's Commentary on Job 38:7...........
The morning stars; either, or The sons of God, as it here follows, the latter clause of the verse being explicatory of the former, as is most frequent in this and some other books of Scripture, to wit, the angels............
Daniel 8:10 12:3 Revelation 1:16,20; and morning stars, because of their excellent lustre and glory, for which they are called angels of light, The sons of God; the blessed angels; for man not being yet made, God had then no other sons; and these are called the sons of God, partly because they had their whole being from him, and partly because they were made partakers of his Divine and glorious image. And all these are said to join in this work of praising God, probably because none of the angels were as yet fallen from their first estate, though they did fall within a very little time after.

 

[Major1]

Thinking more about my 1st response to you, I see that the site you gave does not refer to Fr. Jordan Aumann's book Spiritual Theology, which I would recommend highly. To anyone not well-read in the field of spirituality (I don't know whether that would include you or not - but for the sake of anyone reading this post who is a beginner in the serious work of advancing in the spiritual life) I would also want to say that the book "The Ordinary Path to Holiness" by Thomas Richard, a Catholic lay man, is an excellent place to begin. This book includes the essential subject of growing in the life of prayer, through the essential beginning of ascetical prayer, and the approach to - and entry into - the mystical prayer of infused contemplation. Growth in the interior life is inseparable from growth in the life of prayer. Other important related factors are also included in this book.

You have still not given the source you used. I took a guess at the one I suggested.

 

[Major1]

I had not seen that site before, but I see the author of the article has used many of my own sources. If you personally are interested in pursuing this spirituality, I strongly suggest that you go to one or more of his sources, or of those few I suggested in my message. This spirituality must not be "studied" - it must be lived - experienced. Knowing about life is useless if it never leads to life itself.

I would say that the key to spirituality is in Romans 12:2.........
“Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind ."

I agree that Spirituality is not studied but is the act of Christ in us which is the hope of glory.