Why did God create the devil?

[squint]

Well, that's a relief, because I can't stand the thought of human souls of people who have not done anything really bad suffering torture for all eternity. What kind of god would do that?

What kind of God would do that to "any" person of mankind seeing that ALL have sin which same action is of THE DEVIL.? Why does mankind BLAME AND ACCUSE only mankind? Why does believing mankind excuse their sins and count others sins against them?

Satan and his demons and evil spirits however deserve to suffer in the lake of fire. If someone completely gives themselves over to the devil and toward doing evil in this life, like Hitler, Mussolini, Sadam Hussein and those school shooters or drug dealing gangsters and absolutely refuses to repent of their sins than they should go to hell.

I don't believe any person of mankind goes to the Lake of Fire because they are SLAVES, all, of sin indwelling the flesh which same action is OF THE DEVIL.

Why would we see the sin that transpired IN THE FLESH AND MIND of Hitler any different than that working in any other person's flesh and mind?

There are entities IN mankind, all, that are NOT THEM upon which to look to eternal judgment.

There are some atheist intellectuals who spent lifetimes trying to prove there is no god, I am not sure if they deserve to go to hell, it is not for me to judge.

We know that it is the "god of this world" who blinds the minds of people. Why again would we condemn the slaves and ignore their enslavers? All of see only in part and in darkness.

I probably deserve to go to hell for my own sins but I have repented of them and I chose to serve Jesus Christ.

None of us can say "we have no sin."

Paul called the sin indwelling his own flesh NO LONGER I. Paul also had EVIL PRESENT with him whenever he desired to do good. Paul carried a messenger of Satan in his own flesh to buffet him.

We should not mistake ourselves as God's children for what we are ALL bound with in the flesh, nor should we "give place" to the blurring or mixing of these parties, nor to the works of those parties which are NOT US.

I agree there are bad people who act as if they are encouraged by the devil,

"He who commits sin is OF THE DEVIL" so the DEVIL is involved with ALL SIN. There is no avoiding this fact as a fact for ALL mankind.

but they have the choice of coming to Christ if someone will witness to them and tell them the gospel and how Christ's love can set them free.

I do not believe the work of Christ is only made effective by mankind's acknowledgement of same.

'Course, doesn't mean they will accept Christ. We have a choice whether to accept God or reject him.

Why do you say a BLINDED SLAVE has a choice? Mankind is NOT ALONE in either flesh or mind.

No lets talk about the grave, about what happened to souls of the dead before Jesus came to earth. There was a place called sheol, the grave in Hebrew, very unpleasant, dark cold and gloomy where those who died went, but it was not a place of torture like hell. There was also a sort of heaven called Abraham's bosom where really good and faithful Jews who made sacrifices to pay for their sins went. Jesus told a parable about the beggar named Lazarus and the rich man who died and the beggar went to Abraham's bosom and the rich man to gehenna, a hell in sheol where souls of the wicked were punished. Obviously the rich man must have been wicked and a great sinner, apparently he was proud and did not repent of his sins.

And again, why would it not be that the rich man was with Lazarus, and separated from him at death...one unto salvation and one unto torment? The rich man doesn't even have a name. There are strangers IN mankind that Jesus does not know, nor will He ever.

Perhaps his sin was that the poor beggar sat at his gate every day and he had plenty of food and money and never helped the poor man out, never gave him anything.

Perhaps the rich man blinded and stole God's Word/Bread from the heart of Lazarus every day of his fleshly life?

So there must have been a place of punishment and a place of reward, and I imagine before Jesus came it was works based,

Luke 11:24
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest

I wonder if it was only for Jews who worshiped the one true God? Then again god has made himself known all throughout the world through creation, in different religions there are kernels of truth and turth in the Greek philosophies.

All of Israel are God's children. Deut. 14:1 and Psalm 82:6

enjoy!

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[k2svpete]

Sheol is THE grave, the same as what you find in your local cemetary. There is nothing more to it than that. Going to the grave with nothing else for you, to disappear back into the dust out of which you were formed, that is what scared some people.

The parable you mention is similar to several other parable tht Jesus used. The message was always tailored to the audience. In this case it was to the Pharisees who believed in a place called Abraham's Bosom. There is no scriptural support for such a place, it is something that grew out of an intermingling with pagan ideas over time.

It is important to read the story and understand the message behind it rather than take it as a literal happening.

 

[AgapeBible]

My preacher said that Satan constantly whispers in our ear and tempts us to sin, pushing and dragging us into sin, and then when we give into the sin he beats us over the head with guilt.

"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey , you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But god be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. i speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleaness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

"For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end , everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

"Let no one say when he is tempted 'I am tempted by God', for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."


I am not sure about this "Devil made me do it" philosophy of yours. When I am tempted to do something wrong, it's like I have an angel on the right shoulder and a devil on the left shoulder the angel tells me not to do it it is wrong and I will get in trouble get punished and the devil tells me do it it is fun you'll like it you want to do it. So I must decide whether to listen to God or the Devil.

 

[squint]

My preacher said that Satan constantly whispers in our ear and tempts us to sin, pushing and dragging us into sin, and then when we give into the sin he beats us over the head with guilt.

IF "he who commits sin is OF THE DEVIL" and ALL HAVE SINNED, it would appear to be a tad bit more than just whispers eh?

I am not sure about this "Devil made me do it" philosophy of yours.

And I'd really appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth and claim that's what I said. I never said THE DEVIL MADE YOU DO IT...Scriptures say THE DEVIL DID IT. Are YOU the DEVIL? No.


The DEVIL is implicated far beyond any doubt in ALL SIN by 1 John 3:9

I blame NONE of mankind for that working. The devil in the flesh and mind is the one who commits sin.

If a person thinks it's ONLY THEM, then they are thusly WRONG and speaking under the spirit of ERROR.

1 John 3:
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

When I am tempted to do something wrong, it's like I have an angel on the right shoulder and a devil on the left shoulder the angel tells me not to do it it is wrong and I will get in trouble get punished and the devil tells me do it it is fun you'll like it you want to do it.

I don't deny that the burden of sin indwelling YOUR flesh is YOURS...as it is YOUR flesh and YOUR burden to bear...BUT THAT in no way makes YOU the SAME AS that working carried in the flesh.

The fact is that all the freewill in the world WILL NOT eradicate the presence of INDWELLING SIN and the fact that ALL HAVE SINNED effectively eradicates the PERFORMANCES of freewill. Mankind's WILL will NEVER free them from THAT PRESENCE.

So I must decide whether to listen to God or the Devil.

It's hard to depart from iniquity if it's JUST YOU making BAD DECISIONS eh?

We should find our life in part by knowing that the EVIL THAT IS PRESENT with us IS NOT US...and therefore not YIELD to the desires of "something" else...

lol

enjoy!

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[hiscosmicgoldfish]

The original question is worth asking, and it's something I have been thinking about of late. Orthodox Christianity makes a brave attempt at answering these questions..

1. If God brought Satan into existence, then doesn’t it follow that God is the origin of evil?

Only if Satan was an actual being that existed as an angel that was once pure, and sinned through pride.

1. How can God hate evil and yet allow the Devil to exist when he possesses the omnipotent power to destroy him?

Perhaps it's to do with testing human beings, to allow them to choose evil. I have thought that the demonic is so bad, what is it actually? What is it that makes people so inherently evil? The fall. But what was the fall?
The test is in order for humans to draw towards God in love, rather than compulsion?

1. If the Devil is a fallen angel as Christians teach, who tempted him or caused him to fall?

No one, he did it himself.

1. How could he be tempted if there was no Satan to tempt him?

He wasn't tempted.

1. Would God create him if he knew he would turn out diabolical?

Good question. God must have known, so yes, he did create him knowing that he'd go bad, but it served God's further purpose in the grand scheme of fall-redemption etc.

1. If God did not know how he would turn out, then how could he be all wise?

He did know.

1. If God did know how Satan would turn out, then isn’t God the sponsor of evil?

Possibly. As God is all, he must also be aware of evil, what it is, where it comes from, and how it is defeated.

I haven't read through this thread in total, some of it, so I don't know if anyone has answered the question yet.

 

[Hagnismos]

I've never posted in this section so if this topic is already covered, please point me in the right direction.

That being said, allow me to ask the following questions:

1. If God brought Satan into existence, then doesn’t it follow that God is the origin of evil?
2. How can God hate evil and yet allow the Devil to exist when he possesses the omnipotent power to destroy him?
3. If the Devil is a fallen angel as Christians teach, who tempted him or caused him to fall?
4. How could he be tempted if there was no Satan to tempt him?
5. Would God create him if he knew he would turn out diabolical?
6. If God did not know how he would turn out, then how could he be all wise?
7. If God did know how Satan would turn out, then isn’t God the sponsor of evil?

God created Lucifer as a very important part of heavenly activity, an archangel, a cherub who was close to the throne of God and could lead worship like nobody's business. He also was realted to the precious stones of the earth (Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 38.)

Satan is what Lucifer created. It was alot like the birth of Darth Vader. He got himself all hung up on hismelf using the freewill God had given him. Satan actually was (as far we can tell) the first creature ever to sin. It followed that he decieved a bunch of angels and a couple of the residents of 777 Eden Way, Earth and the rest is history.

The question that follows what I have said there is, if God knew sin was going to happen why would he create free will? Something about love just isn't complete unless a person can choose to love you. I know quite a few so called prophets who don't understand that God would never give someone to them as their spouse against that persons will. Whining about it won't help, God respects freewill, even if you want to be banned from His holy presence forever it's still Your choice. that said, our wonderful Father in Heaven, makes sure that everyone gets judged righteously. Nobody ends up in outer darkness unless they really deserve it. That would suggest that hell is actually populated by a lot of church people in countries and times where the message has been heard (not all of course, present company hopefully excluded.)

 

[Hismessenger]

I just posted this on the other thread about whether God created the evil. Hope it helps someone out.

Recently came across older manuscript translations of John I. It is taken from the textus Receptus and this is what it said.

Quote:
All things came into being through Him and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being
Seems there have been alot of changes made to the text to come up with;

Quote:
Jhn 1:3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I would say that coming into being covers a lot more ground in the understanding all things were made by Him. Since the debate is about whether God created Evil or it came into being of it's own accord.

It seems that it was changed to reflect someones finite understanding rather than believing in what the word truly is saying. God is sovereign. His thoughts are not our thoughts and therefore His reason for creating evil is above our understanding


[/quote]

One last thing in answer to the first posters question. If a child was stabbed 144 times, God is not moved, for if He created the child in the first place, he can do it as many times as he wants. The same child for God doesn't have the same fatalist mentality as we do nor looks at things in the same way that we might.

hismessenger

 

[Terral]

Hi Love:

1. If God brought Satan into existence, then doesn’t it follow that God is the origin of evil?

No. God has been in the Creator business for an infinite amount of time and has seen myriads and myriads of rebellions prior to this recent Satanic Rebellion. The devil was a good guy for a very long time (anointed cherub who covers = Eze 28:14) and was “blameless in your ways from the day you were created UNTIL unrighteousness was found in you.” Ezekiel 28:15. The ‘stones’ and ‘gold’ of Ezekiel 28:13 are ‘rewards’ (like ours mentioned in 1Cor 3:12-15 = diagram of your heavenly ephod) for the anointed protector of God’s secrets having “the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.” Ezekiel 28:12. All of these things took place in God’s Infinite Realm (far left) where Satan was on the Mountain of God (top of diagram) walking in the midst of the stones of fire (the sons of God).

2. How can God hate evil and yet allow the Devil to exist when he possesses the omnipotent power to destroy him?

God cut Satan off from His Infinite Realm to cast him down into “Heaven,” which is the “Highest Heaven” (1Kings 8:27) or the “Realm of the Word” from this diagram. Since most people do not know the differences between the “Heaven” of Genesis 1:1 (in red) and the “heaven” (diagram = between heavens and earth) of Genesis 1:8, then grasping the substance of my statements on these Genesis topics is oftentimes very difficult indeed. All I have is 'seeds' and God must cause the growth (1Cor 3:6-7), so all of that is between you and our Creator. :0) Our entire universe is like the yoke of an egg (diagram) contained and held together (Col. 1:16-17) by an almost infinite universe (white of the egg = Heaven of Gen. 1:1) with God’s Infinite Realm represented by an infinite shell. You are ‘gods’ (Ps 82:6, Jn 10:34) from God’s Infinite Realm, which is the same place where Satan had his beginning as God’s anointed cherub who covers. However, since the vast majority here has no idea what “You are gods” even means, then our deliberations on this topic will be mired in semantics from the very start in most cases. One problem is that we are living within a temporal universe representing just one ‘son of God’ (Adam = Luke 3:38 = bottom of Fig 2) contained and held together by exactly one “Son of God” (Christ = 2Cor 1:19, Col 1:15-17) within the envelope of time and space (diagram = "Temporal Realms" = Figs 2+3) called to exist in John 1:3. Therefore, from our temporal position in this Adamic Universe, then no time passes in God’s Infinite Realm from Genesis 1:1 all the way to 1Cor 15:28 when God eventually becomes “all in all” (diagram = explanation is here). This means God destroyed Satan instantly from the perspective of the other ‘gods’ in God’s Infinite Realm, but the ‘Triune’ (Infinite, Word, This Universe) Judgment is taking place exactly three times from our ‘temporal’ perspective inside the envelope of time and space.

3. If the Devil is a fallen angel as Christians teach, who tempted him or caused him to fall?

Satan is much more than a mere angel/messenger with myriads of members contained in his triune (Dragon, Beast, False Prophet) bodies of this Adamic Universe existence, which represents “Round Three” of a battle taken up by Michael the Archangel representing the second leg of this three-part relay race. Revelation 12:1-9. In other words, we are looking at Satan/Adam, predator/prey, murderer/victim scenarios playing out not once (God’s Infinite Realm) and not twice (Word Realm = F+S+HS), but for the third and final time; where Satan and his evil hosts will finally be chucked into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20, 20:10-15). Satan caused Satan to fall, as “you were internally filled with violence, and you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane from the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.” Ezekiel 28:16.

4. How could he be tempted if there was no Satan to tempt him?

Satan was tempted from within himself and the darkness/unrighteousness from where the original violence found a foothold within his infinite being.

5. Would God create him if he knew he would turn out diabolical?

Yes. God knows the end from the beginning and created Satan just the same. God created Satan because of His own need to keep a secret from all the sons of God in His Infinite Realm, because each one of us was created knowing ‘all things.’ The anointed cherub who covers was ‘required’ in order for God to somehow keep a secret, which became the stepping stone to creating His ‘deluding influence’ of 2Thessalonians 2:11 part of the “mystery of iniquity.” 2Thes. 2:7-12. The “god of this world” blinds the minds of the unbelieving from seeing ‘our gospel’ (#2 here) and anything God wants to keep a secret. You likely told your children that Santa Claus brought those toys down the chimney during the night; and that the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy bring gifts for the good boys and girls in the neighborhood. Right? :0)

6. If God did not know how he would turn out, then how could he be all wise?

God subjected His Infinite Realm to futility “IN HOPE” the very same way He subjected this universe to futility “that the creation itself ‘also’ will be set free from its slavery into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.” Romans 8:21. In short, something very good is happening in God’s Infinite Realm with Adam being raised from the dead ‘and’ (this is the good part) given all of Satan’s precious stone/golden rewards. :0) Adam will be raised from the dead to stand up and assume his new position within the Mountain of God, being adorned with all of Satan’s precious stones, so that leading all of his brothers by the hand, none of them will ever be deluded/tricked/deceived/murdered by anyone ever again.

7. If God did know how Satan would turn out, then isn’t God the sponsor of evil?

No. Satan and all of his evil cronies end up in the lake of fire. Right? Of course. God has mercy on some and He hardens others ‘and’ because of things already taking place FAR beyond the realms of this temporal universe.

“So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory . . .”. Romans 9:18-23.

The members of Christ’s Body (That’s us = Church #2) will judge the world and the angels (1Cor 6:2-3 = diagram) for all the ages to come. We will watch how God deals with Satan’s vessels of wrath ‘and’ how He has mercy on those of us IN Christ Jesus, until we are all perfected and this universe becomes “one” thing (Adam) once again. Only then will we be prepared to rejoin the other ‘gods’ in His Infinite Realm and be forever immune to the deception of the next Satan-like devil that will surely come along, as it is written,

“That which has been is that which will be, and that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one might say, "See this, it is new"? Already it has existed for ages which were before us. There is no remembrance of earlier things; and also of the later things which will occur, there will be for them no remembrance among those who will come later still.” Ecclesiastes 1:9-11.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral