Sorry, my post was quickly written, you misunderstood me.
God "caused no evil by turning." But is still it's master and determined it's form.
Thank you. Yes, God "created" a resistor to resist and that is what a resistor does and that is how God created it. God deals with the resistors vastly differently than God deals with mankind, point being that BOTH of these positions, mankind as Gods offspring ALL annnndddd the "resistors" are clearly shown to be in the flesh.
It becomes disingenuous then to take what Gods Words mean for the "resistors" and apply them to Gods offspring and this is exactly where most believers run completely off the tracks.
By knowing all things to come, plus with wise and powerful interjections, and a design of things like Michael and immunity... and He chose all things to come, and could have chosen another set of angels and events.
Scriptures tell us that ultimately God works "all things" Perfectly and only HE can do "that."
I think there are angels He thought of, that He did not create. All angels are His creation. He is master over evil and not it's instigator.
And that is where you are
very wrong. IF God made the resistors then HE is directly implicated in ALL dealings with those entities. It's called the presentation of omission or commission. IF God made all these things and then sat IDLY by without interference WHEN HE COULD HAVE, then God still remains implicated. The desire of many theologians, particularly of the "freewill" ilk seek to isolate and protect God from implications in these matters.
A very legitimate 'alternative' viewpoint is that God is GREAT ENOUGH to have created EVIL TEMPORAL BEINGS and still have their workings completely ERADICATED and have PERFECTION come about from the use of same.
For example, God knows the appearance and manner of the children your parents could have had, if they had not stopped after having your oldest sibling.
And In another set of events God did not choose to create, there could have been other angels, and more shrewd and evil ones than Lucifer who fell. And in another frame of events, three quarters of the lot of angels may have fallen instead.
Now you are presenting a form of open view/moral theology theism, wherein God could have created all possible worlds and this is the one we ended up with.
The difficulty with those presentations is again, that God
is not somehow directly implicated in all these events. The attempt to "remove" God from His creation is simply unsustainable, and IF then Perfection is implicated in His Own creation, then God Himself is also then directly responsible for ALL outcomes being the Prevailing Party.
What we should hope for then as believers is A PERFECT OUTCOME based on His Abilities and not our own.
He is such a master that evil is His tool. He created the destoryer. The smith as from Isaiah.
Agreed.
That view is the only responsible viewpoint.
God wanted and created free will, so that He could have servants and friends, and dear fellowship. Lucifer and Michael have free will.
And that will remain a flying LEAP off the cliff. I inserted a link earlier on "why" freewill is a logical absurdity when there is a PREVAILING PARTY involved.
For example you cannot quantifiably eliminate the workings of Satan in mankind when that working is so well documented scripturally NOR can you quantifiably eliminate Gods Workings in the wills of mankind when that ALSO is so well documented.
Freewill then just becomes ANOTHER TOOL of accusations and damnation of your fellow man and false justifications of yourself. That is called an argument from exclusion and of ignorance of other possibilities.
You cannot for example "freewill" yourself into having sinless flesh. You cannot exalt your will over Gods Will. As such your will is automatically relegated to a lesser form of will which means it is NOT FREE in the true sense of the word "free." It is automatically a LESSER or CONFINED will.
Since you cannot 'isolate or quantify' the extent of either Satan or Gods will in interaction with mankind there is simply no logical way to BLAME only mankinds supposed freewill. Very simple logic.
I have a free will. I cannot earn grace.
I hope you see the dichotomy in those two statements. You are right. Your supposed "freewill" is not what is going to "earn" you your eternal pat on the back and God is certainly not in "need" of either your limited form of love or your limited form of decisions.
God is love. Satan wants to kill God
Satan knows his role here and also his eventual fate, that of eternal destruction. Satan performs then just as you stated prior, as the vessel of dishonor, wrath and destruction that is to come.
, and have the highest position, he wants to make God a liar... He cannot change God, or kill God. God is love and will not but love His creatures, but not always their ways.
If evil is as you stated, a TOOL, then it is perfectly legitimate that God can eradicate and dispose of that TOOL and that presentation is also in the scriptures. God may very well have a distaste for the "dung" yet understand that it's temporal use is good for the plants, mankind. This does not mean that the "dung" will have any form of salvation, but instead it's use and discarding.
Satan cannot stop God's love. Paul said "I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels principalities or powers, nor things that are now, nor things that are to come, can separate us from the love of God." With the other race, Jesus shows mercy not hate to the spirits and casts them into a herd of pigs in the Gospel.
Jesus cast them there because their time for destruction has not yet come. No more, no less. Those anti-Christ spirits are still here today. We have no scriptural record of any anti-Christ spirit who has been put to death yet. That is on a future scale, but it is promised.
God can utterly destroy Satan, He has the power.
Not only can, but WILL. Sin, evil and death and the "real" workers of iniquity who are PRESENTLY OVERLAID upon mankind will have their SEPARATION from mankind and a PERMANENT ENDING according to the scriptures. The "tools" will be tossed into the fire for elimination...fini...there is no need to provide resurrection for a "tool." It was made to be used and discarded no matter how animated that "tool" may seem to us.
He does neither force them to repent nor worship Him, which would be like rape, a bullying husband. And does use His might to annihilate them.
In the "mean"time, these "tools" still serve Gods Purposes no different than God placing a messenger of Satan upon Paul.
God is master over evil and the Devil and the falls, but didn't want them or create them for His pleasure
Baloney. Scripture says God created "all things" for His pleasure. There are no exceptions to "all things." God will take a great deal of pleasure to eradicate evil and it's workers when HE is finished "using" them.
but saw them as unstoppable and chose the lesser destructive and effective evil options of possible events.
Evil is not "unstoppable." They have their defined and set roles and limits. Evil is not "infinite" in character as the position of "infinite" is Reserved to only Him.
Looking at inumerable angels and souls, living in community, with free wills, for like ninety thousand trillion years, a fall was inevitable, only God is truly faultless.
Freewill is merely another tool of the tools so that THEY in MANKIND can CONDEMN our fellow man for THEIR workings IN mankind. So when you speak such things to the DETRIMENT of your fellow man and you EXONERATE yourself in the "name of God" you too are merely being used as a PAWN of those tools.
Scriptures teach us that sins are NOT COUNTED AGAINST MANKIND. That's the end of that business. Jesus took AWAY the sins of the world, but Jesus has not taken away the TOOLS nor His judgment and eventual eradication of THEM. They still work and they work IN THE FLESH AND MINDS of our fellow man, US included.
We do what we want, if He calls, we can do His will. Be taken hold of, and take hold... Or be like Jezebel...
It could have been worse. Such as if Adam ate from the tree of life after the fall. The whole Adamic race could have been lost, without ones like Noah, Moses And of course Jesus.
Paul told us that in the SAME LUMP there are TWO VESSELS. One vessel, the HONORABLE VESSEL is your fellow man whom YOU as Gods child are COMMANED to Love. If you condemn THEM you are FAR FAR FAR away from any form of "real love" and instead are just another hypocrite on the block who is being used as a PAWN OF THE CONDEMNERS. As such your flesh is clearly marked as under control of the OTHER VESSEL(s,) the blamers, sin counters, accusers of our fellow man and you will COMPLETELY IGNORE the "facts" of the existence and implications of the "other vessels." The most common error that exists among nearly ALL believers. And as such YOU TOO are performing your role as Gods child in carrying those FALSE ACCUSERS to judgment in your own flesh.
Adam the thief and not Lucifer the murderer. A thief and a murderer besides Jesus at the crucifixion.
Adam was a son of God my friend. Read all about it in Luke 3:38. As such you can smear Gods son with SIN all you want, but that is a working of the DEVIL.
Snipping the balance 'cause it's repetitive "freewill" nonsense dogma that cannot stand the test of simple scriptural logic. If you claim "freewill" I'd expect to see a "sound mind" encounter what is herein.
enjoy!
squint
......God didn't make an angel who later became evil. God made the evil angel, for His own divine will and purpose.
