Why "common design" is wrong.

[pgp_protector]

Who is the dummy. My ancestors are human, perfectly made. Then we've digressed since then. Our genetic defects increased, accumulated and worsened over time. Diseases have increased, life is getting more distorted not evolving into something better. We aren't getting better, if anything we are moving away from a perfect form.

Darwin seems to have a problem with the illustration below. I can just hear him say, "Wait a minute now, a pig to a bull to man? I never implied that, my grandpa was an ape ... change it ... change it!"

Think you can find a larger picture ?

 

[Split Rock]

I was speaking only of atheists, who do not believe in God, not theistic evolutionists. Historically, fundamental evolutionists have no room for God. Darwin did not factor in God as part of his origin of species. True Macro-evolutionary thought is totally naturalistic, with no room for God.

The same is true for gravity, germ, cell theory, etc.

Christians that believe in macro-evolution haven't really examined it thoroughly enough and weighed it against what the Bible says. These views cannot harmonize with each other in any way.

You are making assumptions about others you have no right to make.

There is such a thing as absolute truth.

Except for some-people's interpretations of their holy books... right?

Nothing good will come of a person who follows a flawed theory, lies, delusions. If we were all following delusional myths as you may think, how could our lives be blessed. .

I guess you never heard that "ignorance is bliss."

Let's see how secure you will feel when you get close to death? Your precious theory will not comfort you.

The theory of evolution is not designed to comfort anyone. It is a scientific theory that explains the diversity and distribution of life on earth. Period, full stop.

Newton was a devoutly religious Christian. Christian never leave God out of the equation.


*The scientific method was established by Sir Francis Bacon who was motivated by his religious beliefs and did so, so that the world could better understand God's creation. He also rejected atheism!

*Copernicus sometimes referred to God in his works and did not see his system in any conflict with the Bible.

*J. Kepler was a Lutheran

*Galileo thought the Bible could not err.

*R. Descartes, a Roman Catholic mathematician was called the father of modern philosophy. He purposed to establish the certainty that God exists. It was central to his whole philosophy.

*B. Pascal was a Roman Catholic mathematician and physicist who later turned from science to devout more time studying theology. I guess he thought that was more important.

*R. Boyle was a Protestant who wrote that the study of nature was a central religious duty and also wrote against atheists.

*W. Kelvin was a committed Christian first and noteworthy physicist.

* Max Planck, a quantum theorist said God is everywhere!

*Einstein thought the universe was too ordered not to have a God. He said, "I want to know how God created this world"; and "I want to know His thoughts ..."; and "Science without religion is lame ..." He also firmly denied atheism.

Those men didn't leave God out of the equation, they were geniuses. We often forget history and how we got here. We forget those who came before us and how they thought. Revisionist tend to change history, distort it, deny it and discard it for new ways. These ways aren't really new, they are just the wrong ways that have been around for a long time.

And none of these men let their religious beliefs dictate their scientific conclusions. How many of these great scientists would be creationists today? I would say none.

Again, it was evident that those brilliant men above were motivated by their belief in God and were driven to discover how God created all things.

Personally I have no problem with where one's motivation comes from. The problem I have is people who use their narrow interpretation to dictate what scientific theories they accept, regardless of the physical evidence that supports said theories.

 

[Dizredux]

T

And none of these men let their religious beliefs dictate their scientific conclusions. How many of these great scientists would be creationists today? I would say none.

Perhaps more important (if possible), they did not reject data because it did not agree with their religious beliefs. This would put them completely out of step with most of today's creationists.

Dizredux

 

[Ronald]

pgp_protector;66443599]Think you can find a larger picture ?

Lol, it was the size of the other photo when I copied it and then poof, He grew! I couldn't figure it out ... Darwin must be really angry!

Btw, the St. Augustine quote, I agree with 100%. Any theology that I post, I can back with scriptures. I wrote a book that is a concise study of Christianity. It includes 570 scriptures from seven different translations of the Bible. Do not try to imply that I am one of those persons that St. Augustine's criticizes.

Davian was mocking everything I said with caricatures and jokes; so I gave him a taste of his own medicine bucko! I can have a little fun too!

 

[Loudmouth]

Extreme environmental conditions occur such as volcanic eruptions, an asteroid hits or extreme climate changes and puff -- organs, limbs, systems develop quickly in one or a few generations without the need of thousands or tens of thousands of generations.

That is not punctuated equilibria. Like I said, you simply don't understand it. In fact, Darwin described punctuated equilibria in Origin of Species:

"Only a small portion of the world has been geologically explored. Only organic beings of certain classes can be preserved in a fossil condition, at least in any great number. Widely ranging species vary most, and varieties are often at first local, -- both causes rendering the discovery of intermediate links less likely. Local varieties will not spread into other and distant regions until they are considerably modified and improved; and when they do spread, if discovered in a geological formation, they will appear as if suddenly created there, and will be simply classed as new species." [Charles Darwin, Origin of Species 1st Edition 1859, p.439]

That is punctuated equilibria. It is peripatric speciation in a small subpopulation followed by the replacement of the larger, less derived population by the smaller, more derived population. It still takes tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years.

Because they couldn't have formed in a piece by piece fashion over millions of years.

Yet another claim you have no evidence for.

It is not for me or any other Christian to say where anyone is going. I just warn people about what the Bible says.

Threats by proxy are still threats. It just shows how desperate you are.

 

[Loudmouth]

My ancestors are human, perfectly made.

Prove it. Show us that all of your ancestors were human. Where is your evidence?

Then we've digressed since then. Our genetic defects increased, accumulated and worsened over time. Diseases have increased, life is getting more distorted not evolving into something better. We aren't getting better, if anything we are moving away from a perfect form.

Evidence?

 

[justlookinla]

Prove it. Show us that all of your ancestors were human. Where is your evidence?



Evidence?

Show that our ancestor was some unidentified life form from long long ago.

Evidence.

 

[Ronald]

Split Rock;66443922]
You are making assumptions about others you have no right to make.

My opinion. You have an opinion about Creationists that you proudly display ... or do you not have a right?

I guess you never heard that "ignorance is bliss."

Yes, but that is not Biblical. The Bible says, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." Proverbs 1:7

The theory of evolution is not designed to comfort anyone. It is a scientific theory that explains the diversity and distribution of life on earth.

That's true. It funny that you used that word "designed". Evolutionists find it easy to propose that a theory can be intelligently designed but not life itself! You are right, there is no comfort in your theory, no promise, no hope; no celebration, no holiday, it doesn't even bring joy. But hey, I guess y'all are inspired by it.

And none of these men let their religious beliefs dictate their scientific conclusions.

Their science fit into their beliefs, it do not contradict them. If at any point a theory came along that suggested there was no need for God, they would dismiss it.
As I stated, F. Bacon was motivated to construct the scientific method to understand how God did things and to glorify Him even more.

How many of these great scientists would be creationists today? I would say none.

I would say 55% of scientists believe in God. It depends on the field. 95% of biologists hold to the theory of evolution. Corruption grows throughout history, good spreads as well. In 1900. there were 500 million Christians in the world, now we have 2.3 billion and growing. So good and evil is spreading, the two will soon reach their apex and part ways.

 

[Loudmouth]

I would say 55% of scientists believe in God.

And yet none of them insert God into their theories.

It depends on the field. 95% of biologists hold to the theory of evolution. Corruption grows throughout history, good spreads as well. In 1900. there were 500 million Christians in the world, now we have 2.3 billion and growing. So good and evil is spreading, the two will soon reach their apex and part ways.

The western world has never been better. We are seeing unprecedented levels of prosperity and freedom that no generation before us has seen. I think your view of the world is seriously skewed.

 

[Ronald]

Loudmouth;66444589]Prove it. Show us that all of your ancestors were human. Where is your evidence?

In your field, doesn't the genetic code suggest and point to two common descendants of all humans or that we all came from one female? I thought I heard that recently?

 

[bhsmte]

My opinion. You have an opinion about Creationists that you proudly display ... or do you not have a right?



Yes, but that is not Biblical. The Bible says, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." Proverbs 1:7



That's true. It funny that you used that word "designed". Evolutionists find it easy to propose that a theory can be intelligently designed but not life itself! You are right, there is no comfort in your theory, no promise, no hope; no celebration, no holiday, it doesn't even bring joy. But hey, I guess y'all are inspired by it.


Their science fit into their beliefs, it do not contradict them. If at any point a theory came along that suggested there was no need for God, they would dismiss it.
As I stated, F. Bacon was motivated to construct the scientific method to understand how God did things and to glorify Him even more.


I would say 55% of scientists believe in God. It depends on the field. 95% of biologists hold to the theory of evolution. Corruption grows throughout history, good spreads as well. In 1900. there were 500 million Christians in the world, now we have 2.3 billion and growing. So good and evil is spreading, the two will soon reach their apex and part ways.

Christianity is declining, the world over.

 

[HitchSlap]

Christianity is declining, the world over.

Thank god!

 

[Loudmouth]

In your field, doesn't the genetic code suggest and point to two common descendants of all humans or that we all came from one female? I thought I heard that recently?

It points to a most recent common ancestor for our mitochondrial DNA, and hundreds of thousands of uncommon ancestors that lived at the same time who also contributed DNA to the people living today.

MRCA's are probably one of the most misunderstood concepts in the creation v. evolution discussions. You can better understand the concept by looking at your grandparents. Only one of your grandmothers gave you your mitochondrial DNA, yet both grandmothers contributed equally to your whole genome (on average). Only one grandfather contributed your y chromosome (if you are a dude), yet both grandfathers contributed equally to your whole genome. In the same way, our distant ancestors also contributed to our genomes even if they did not give us our mitochondrial DNA or y chromosomes.

 

[justlookinla]

Christianity is declining, the world over.

Christianity has always ebbed and flowed. Look back at 9-11 and the churches were full. After the treat had seemingly passed, folks became cold and lax again.

Nothing new to see here.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Christianity has always ebbed and flowed. Look back at 9-11 and the churches were full. After the treat had seemingly passed, folks became cold and lax again.

Nothing new to see here.

It may even not be true that Christianity is in decline all over the world if this study is correct.

The Top 20 Countries where Christianity is Growing the Fastest | Disciple All Nations

 

[bhsmte]

It may even not be true that Christianity is in decline all over the world if this study is correct.

The Top 20 Countries where Christianity is Growing the Fastest | Disciple All Nations

Why would a list of 20 countries where Christianity is growing, prove that Christianity has not been declining in the entire world?

http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...y-in-america-affect-the-future-of-this-nation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...ought-as-one-in-10-under-25s-is-a-Muslim.html

http://secularist10.hubpages.com/hub/The-Decline-and-Fall-of-Christianity

 

[Ronald]

Loudmouth;66444898
The western world has never been better. We are seeing unprecedented levels of prosperity and freedom that no generation before us has seen. I think your view of the world is seriously skewed.

I think it was better when I was a kid. I would say our generation has seen many downfalls in the family and society. It started when they took prayer out of schools in 1962. Then Kennedy was shot in 63; the drug revolution/hippie generation in 66/67; women's lib, abortion and homosexuals started their march all around 74. In our generation (last 60 years or so), we've seen divorce, teenage suicide, drug addiction, immorality blatantly promoted, triple in size. Kids are bringing guns to school and killing other kids, enacting some violent video game they've been addicted to. Were you around 50 years ago? I was, none of this crap happened back then. Now we see in the movies all the filth and many are R rated. "Frankly I don't give a damn" spoken by Rhett Butler was a shock to the audience. "ooowww, did you hear what he said?, they muttered. What language is accepted now?
Is what I'm saying seriously skewed? What world do you live in?
Are you just talking about technology? Let's consider smart phones. Does anyone talk to each other at the kitchen table or at a restaurant without being interrupted by a text or call - "Excuse me, I have to take this call Dad ... oh Hi Jane, you at the store shopping ... Penny's got a sale ... oh, now you're taking a pee_ OK Jane, go ahead and wipe, I'll wait ... Sorry Dad, I'll have a tuna sandwich ... what's that Jane, you say your name and number is on the wall?
Is technology improving our lives and relationships? I think not, we can even say TV has put a wedge in communications between families and friends.
"Unprecedented prosperity" you say?
We are on the verge of an economic collapse not seen since the depression. Do you really believe the unemployment or inflation numbers? Do you think the country with a 17.5 trillion debt translates prosperity? Or do think prosperity is seen in the stock market, while the feds are printing trillions of dollars to prop it up? Wake up, they are lying to us. You must realize that prices have gone up more than 1%/year?

My view is skewed? What planet are you living on?

Terrorism since 9/11/01 in this country and in others prior to that is another example of what? Prosperity? Iran developing nukes is prosperity? Terrorists are in our country right now planning some worse than 9/11 and are chopping peoples heads off. "And the western world has never been better?" You're blind!

Your whole view is blind, every which way. I'm done here.

 

[justlookinla]

It may even not be true that Christianity is in decline all over the world if this study is correct.

The Top 20 Countries where Christianity is Growing the Fastest | Disciple All Nations

Interesting graphic. China is especially encouraging.

 

[Loudmouth]

I think it was better when I was a kid.

It wasn't. You still had segregation, women were openly discriminated against in the workplace, couples of mixed race were openly attacked, etc. You are absolutely wrong. It was much worse when you were a kid.

I would say our generation has seen many downfalls in the family and society.

As shown above, this is absolutely false.

 

[Dizredux]

Their science fit into their beliefs, it do not contradict them. If at any point a theory came along that suggested there was no need for God, they would dismiss it.

You do realize, I hope, that no scientific theory includes the need for God. It is the nature of how Science is done. Science can only work with empirical evidence, that which is publically observable, repeatable and measurable in some way. Since we cannot measure the impact of God, science cannot deal with it. Simply enough science cannot either rule in or rule out the existence or the influence of God.

Whether or not anyone likes this, it is just the way science works unless anyone can come up a way to measure God's influence in an experiment or study.

Dizredux