Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism

[sovereigngrace]

Read those two verses. They don't imply a "return to earth" - that's an assumption that's imposed on to the text. Jesus spoke those words while standing - in human flesh - already on Earth.

Matthew 26:64 - You have said it yourself," Jesus answered. "But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."​

Partial Preterism and Pretrib are more alike than most people realize. They believe in 3 comings of Christ. The 2nd Advent is both of their 3rd coming of Christ.

 

[mkgal1]

This reinforces my initial claim: when challenged, Partial Preterists habitually hide behind the statements of their teachers, and are quick to advancing weblinks to their Preterist mentors. This tactic is normally found among the cults. This shows a distinct weakness in their position and an unhealthy reliance upon man.

This is a great learning example of what's called "confirmation bias". I was expecting this response.

Please don't toss around accusations of cults. People need to be able to rightly know the genuine signs of being in a cult - and this is off base.

One thing for sure, about markers for "weakness in position", is when false accusations are hurled, then we know a person is relying on attempting to discredit others rather than merely offering support for their own assertions.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Likewise - it's wrong to suggest preterism is a denial of faith. There's no support for an accusation like that (that I can even think of).

1Ti 1:19-20: "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

What was their grea
2Ti 2:17-19: "And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Like you, Hymenaeus and Philetus argued the resurrection had already occurred. This was creating confusion with the Church. The fact is: the resurrection will occur at the second coming!


Most fundamentalists I know view a denial of Christ's future return as geretical.

I agree with much of what you said. It is far better to take that step back and not commit to any of the viewpoints in eschatology.

Though it does appear that Partial Preterism is the stronger of the views.

That is the cry of today: there is no absolutes right or wrong!

 

[sovereigngrace]

Also, do tell how preterism is a denial of the faith. Last I checked, even preterists believed in God and the life & crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

1Ti 1:19-20: "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

What was their great error?

2Ti 2:17-19: "And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

Like you, Hymenaeus and Philetus argued that the resurrection had already occurred. This was creating confusion with the Church. Confusion is not off the Lord, but the enemy. The fact is: the resurrection will occur at the second coming!

That is why Bible believing Christians reject Preterism as heresy!

 

[mkgal1]

Partial Preterism and Pretrib are more alike than most people realize. They believe in 3 comings of Christ. The 2nd Advent is both of their 3rd coming of Christ.

More comings than that, actually (His presence was known throughout the Old Testament - He "came" to Stephen and Saul/Paul). I don't limit Christ or number the times in history (or the future) where He makes His presence known.

 

[Lost4words]

This reinforces my initial claim: when challenged, Partial Preterists habitually hide behind the statements of their teachers, and are quick to advancing weblinks to their Preterist mentors. This tactic is normally found among the cults. This shows a distinct weakness in their position and an unhealthy reliance upon man. Like Pretribbers, it is a doctrine that must be taught to be fully gasped. This also shows how absurd many of their claims are, and how uncertain they even are with their own doctrine. A normal unbiased straightforward reading of Scripture reveals many clear second coming passages that show a literal climatic return of Jesus Christ at the end of the world. Partial Preterist teaching does not abide the scrutiny of Scripture.

Obviously the truth hurts and that is why you (a) wont watch the video and (b) make statements like the one you have above. "Real" "educated" information that you refuse to believe, layed out in a very informative video / set of videos.

 

[mkgal1]

That is why Bible believing Christians reject Preterism as heresy!

Not all "Bible-believing" Christians do. Would you want to be more clear about what you really mean/want to say? You've shared that you used to be a dispensationalist. Can you recognize that we all are on a faith journey and that we ought to extend grace to others?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I do not start with the axiomatic premise that the Bible is inerrant for the simple reason - a head-scratcher for you, no doubt - that it is pretty obviously not inerrant.

Yeah, lol, That is a real head scratcher.How have you determined that the Bible is not inerrant? What part is made up? Which of the NT utterances of Lord Jesus is made up? How do you know?

If you see some inconsistency between what I've expressed and the notion that (1) Jesus may well have spoken of a Second Coming (which he almost surely did, since it seems like rather a bizarre notion for his disciples to have invented), and (2) we should live as though it could occur at any time (i.e., might indeed be imminent), I'm unable to follow your thinking.

Well, you may or you may not see these NT verses as truth uttered by Lord Jesus, but,I'll share them anyway.
John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So, Lord Jesus definitely said He was coming again, not "almost surely", but definitely.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Obviously the truth hurts and that is why you (a) wont watch the video and (b) make statements like the one you have above. "Real" "educated" information that you refuse to believe, layed out in a very informative video / set of videos.

PPs seem unable to articulate their own doctrine in normal discussions like this. That is why they typically rely on their mentors to voice their doctrine. If they're not showing web links, quoting their teachers in long quotes, they are plagiarizing. mkgal1 is a case-in-point. She interacted with me in depth, presenting long posts, until I exposed her repeated plagiarizing of Full Preterist sites. She made no effort to apologize but justified this illegal behavior.

Please see:

When did the Old Covenant truly "disappear" and end?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Not all "Bible-believing" Christians do. Would you want to be more clear about what you really mean/want to say? You've shared that you used to be a dispensationalist. Can you recognize that we all are on a faith journey and that we ought to extend grace to others?

We will all differ on biblical issues, and we all look through a glass darkly, but to be obsessed with AD70 is both wrong and unbiblical. It needs challenged hard. It points people away from the centrality of Jesus, His earthly ministry and His climactic return.

 

[sovereigngrace]

More comings than that, actually (His presence was known throughout the Old Testament - He "came" to Stephen and Saul/Paul). I don't limit Christ or number the times in history (or the future) where He makes His presence known.

Hebrews 9:24-28 declares: "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

Peter says in Acts 3:19-21 confirms the concluding nature of the Second Advent, saying, “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he (God) shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution (apokatastasis or reconstitution) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”

 

[sovereigngrace]

OK, Preterists. Let us get into the Word, and away from all of our respective opinions for a moment:

Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:24-30, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, (1) Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but (2) gather the wheat into my barn.”

Verses 37-43 continues, “He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (or aion or age); and the reapers are the angels. (1) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (or aion or age). The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (2) Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

Is this past or future? What event does this refer to?

John 11:21-27 records: “Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.”

Is this past or future? What event does this refer to?

Christ had previously taught in John 6:39-44, 54, where He said, “And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day …No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day ... Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Is this past or future? What event does this refer to?

Christ tells us in John 12:48, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Is this past or future? What event does this refer to?

Romans 8:19-23: “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (phthora or decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

Is this past or future? What event does this refer to?

2 Peter 3:10-13 couldn't be clearer: “the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

Is this past or future? What event does this refer to?

Revelation 20:11-15, 21:1-5 tells us: “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.”

Is this past or future? What event does this refer to?

Revelation 22:3 tells us that the new heavens and new earth arrive “there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.”

Is this past or future? What event does this refer to?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Read those two verses. They don't imply a "return to earth" - that's an assumption that's imposed on to the text. Jesus spoke those words while standing - in human flesh - already on Earth.

Matthew 26:64 - You have said it yourself," Jesus answered. "But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."​

Wait! Are you saying that Lord Jesus will not be returning to Earth?

 

[mkgal1]

Like you, Hymenaeus and Philetus argued the resurrection had already occurred. This was creating confusion with the Church. The fact is: the resurrection will occur at the second coming!

Timing and context matters. Hymenaeus and Philetus, the apostle Paul, and I all agree about the nature of the resurrection referred to. The division was a matter of *timing*.

The word "resurrection" is used for several concepts throughout the Bible. Not just one. You "became a new man" through Christ (that's one example of "resurrection" - dying to old man....being brought to new life in Christ). I presume you don't place that off for the future?

 

[Lost4words]

PPs seem unable to articulate their own doctrine in normal discussions like this. That is why they typically rely on their mentors to voice their doctrine. If they're not showing web links, quoting their teachers in long quotes, they are plagiarizing. mkgal1 is a case-in-point. She interacted with me in depth, presenting long posts, until I exposed her repeated plagiarizing of Full Preterist sites. She made no effort to apologize but justified this illegal behavior.

Please see:

When did the Old Covenant truly "disappear" and end?

You are an expert in your very 'own' 'individual' beliefs. You cut down truly logical information layed at your feet. You refuse the truth because it proves what you believe as wrong.

Watching those videos, i guess, is very painful for you as it clearly shows how you are indeed wrong in what you preach.

I am no expert like you. But, i have studied the info and the passages of scripture and read and watched various bits of good solid evidence pointing to what i would say is very strong evidence for the partial preterist view.

You, just dismiss them as it goes against what you have always been taught about Revelation etc etc.

God bless you my friend

 

[mkgal1]

Wait! Are you saying that Lord Jesus will not be returning to Earth?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm referring to those two specific passages. They don't imply a "return to earth" as Jesus spoke those words while He was on Earth - in human flesh already.

 

[mkgal1]

OK, Preterists. Let us get into the Word, and away from all of our respective opinions for a moment:

As I pointed out when I first answered this list of questions - they're loaded with assumptions. What I mean is, when you read passages (like John 11:21-27) that refer to "rise again" and then ask "is this past or future?" there's no allowance for another explanation of what "rise again" means other than what you believe it means (a literal coming out of the grave to life). That's one problem with your interogating questions.

 

[Lost4words]

As I pointed out when I first answered this list of questions - they're loaded with assumptions. What I mean is, when you read passages (like John 11:21-27) that refer to "rise again" and then ask "is this past or future?" there's no allowance for another explanation of what "rise again" means other than what you believe it means (a literal coming out of the grave to life). That's one problem with your interogating questions.

So true. Totally agree

 

[mkgal1]

We will all differ on biblical issues, we all look through a glass darkly, but to be obsessed with AD70 needs challenged hard. It is wrong and unbiblical. It points people away from the centrality of Jesus and His earthly ministry and His climactic return.

"Obsessed with 70AD" doesn't apply to me - but maybe the shoe fits on you, because your beliefs seem to bring you to a place of zeal against those that see great significance of the wholesale removal of the complete ancient Jewish religious system and transfer of the levitical priesthood to Christ as our eternal High Priest. How can that "point people away" from Christ? That points to Christ and His sovereignty and power!

The only people I can think of that'd be so invested in posting against partial preterists are those that have something to lose because of these beliefs being shared. Perhaps those that have made their own videos and perceive this as their competition.

 

[sovereigngrace]

You are an expert in your very 'own' 'individual' beliefs. You cut down truly logical information layed at your feet. You refuse the truth because it proves what you believe as wrong.

Watching those videos, i guess, is very painful for you as it clearly shows how you are indeed wrong in what you preach.

I am no expert like you. But, i have studied the info and the passages of scripture and read and watched various bits of good solid evidence pointing to what i would say is very strong evidence for the partial preterist view.

You, just dismiss them as it goes against what you have always been taught about Revelation etc etc.

God bless you my friend

Christians are not meant to be clones or robots. They are meant to search out the Word of God for themselves. If Preterists did that, they would quickly come to see that what they have been taught and what the Scriptures say or two different things.

You should always have an answer for what you believe.

Why?

· You need to know what you believe. You need a solid foundation on which to build your life.
· You need to be able to defend what the Book says. After all, every truth in this book is under attack today.
· You need to be able to help others, by relaying the truth to them.

Acts 17:10-11 says, “And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”