Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism

[mkgal1]

This is a great mystery described by many able theologians as the contrast between the already/not yet. There is a definite contrast yet correlation between time and eternity, the seen and the unseen, the corruptible and the incorruptible, the imperfect and the perfect, the physical and the spiritual, the natural and the supernatural, the earthly and the heavenly. Preterist only see the past. Futurist only see the future. Balanced Bible believers see no conflict, just an incredible blessed mysterious revealing master-plan that will soon be fully and wholly realized.

"Fully and wholly realized"........but you're leaving out the suffering of the early church and how Paul had assured them that their wait will only be "a little while longer". Were Paul, Silas, and Timothy mistaken.......giving false hope.....or what?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

 

[sovereigngrace]

I believe in the Trinity - the 3 persons in 1......it's the degree of separation that you relay that I'm not comfortable with and how you seem to limit Christ to Jesus of Nazareth (in physical human form) and not seem to recognize His eternal status and deity. Also......you seem to limit and separate the "work" of the Father and where Christ is at the time - as if Christ is not omnipresent. They are One. Nothing Christ does is separate from HIs Father.

You say that I "seem to limit Christ to Jesus of Nazareth (in physical human form) and not seem to recognize His eternal status and deity.'

This is ludicrous! Where is your evidence of this?

You say that I "seem to limit and separate the 'work' of the Father and where Christ is at the time - as if Christ is not omnipresent."

You say that I think "They are One."

This is ludicrous! Where is your evidence of this?

 

[sovereigngrace]

"Fully and wholly realized"........but you're leaving out the suffering of the early church and how Paul had assured them that their wait will only be "a little while longer". Was Paul mistaken.......giving false hope.....or what?

The NHNE are NOT here yet. That is proof! we still live in an evil age, that is blighted by sin, death and corruption. When Jesus comes that is all terminated. This all happens at the second coming. Please read my posts.

 

[sovereigngrace]

"Fully and wholly realized"........but you're leaving out the suffering of the early church and how Paul had assured them that their wait will only be "a little while longer". Was Paul mistaken.......giving false hope.....or what?

Ok, can you stop avoiding my questions?

1. Please list the Scriptures you believe describe a literal physical bodily future coming of Christ?
2. Tell us exactly what all happens at this coming?
3. Is the second coming of Christ an ongoing process or a literal future physical climactic event?
4. Is the resurrection of the dead an ongoing process or a literal future physical climactic event?

 

[mkgal1]

Ok, can you stop avoiding my questions?

I've responded many times that I am not going to answer your questions due to the difference of interpretations we hold to and how it wouldn't benefit anyone, if I were to answer. We can't even gain common ground on the Destruction of Jerusalem....so there's no point in me giving you my understanding of the rest.

 

[mkgal1]

The NHNE are NOT here yet. That is proof! we still live in an evil age, that is blighted by sin, death and corruption. When Jesus comes that is all terminated. This all happens at the second coming. Please read my posts.

So Paul, Timothy, and Silas were mistaken......offering false hope.....or what? Are you waiting for the LORD Jesus to still be revealed from heaven?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 ~ After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels​

 

[mkgal1]

You say that I "seem to limit Christ to Jesus of Nazareth (in physical human form) and not seem to recognize His eternal status and deity.'

This is ludicrous! Where is your evidence of this?

When you answered about "God pouring out His wrath" while "Jesus was in the grave" or something to that effect - in your response to your interpretation of the parable of the Wicked Tenants. And how you're separating Christ from this "coming" when you wrote, "Christ's one and only future coming".

ETA: I found the post. You wrote, "When Christ was in the grave, the Father began pouring out His wrath upon Jerusalem by first shaking the city of Jerusalem with a major earthquake, and then rendering their temple redundant by cutting their curtain in two."

You say that I "seem to limit and separate the 'work' of the Father and where Christ is at the time - as if Christ is not omnipresent."

You say that I think "They are One."

This is ludicrous! Where is your evidence of this?

Because the only "coming" you seem to give Christ credit for is a "physical, audible" coming. I didn't post that I think that YOU think "they are One".....that's what Scripture says (and what I believe). I'm saying I'm concerned about the separation you make between Jesus and the Father. ISTM that I may be correct in presuming that you don't wish to be associated with the belief that God and Jesus are One? Even though Jesus Himself is recorded as saying so (John 10:30). Is that what you find "ludicrous"?

 

[sovereigngrace]

I've responded many times that I am not going to answer your questions due to the difference of interpretations we hold to and how it wouldn't benefit anyone, if I were to answer. We can't even gain common ground on the Destruction of Jerusalem....so there's no point in me giving you my understanding of the rest.

No, it is because if you were to express your Full Preterist views you would be banned from this board and would have to stop proselytizing. If you had orthodox Christian beliefs you would have no problem outlining what you believe and what Scripture you depend upon.

You want me to present Scripture after Scripture on multiple subjects supporting my view of what happens at the second coming, and then you nitpick it. Yet you think it's OK for you to present nothing pertaining to your view of the second coming, for me to analyze. That is unfair! I am not playing that game any more. Until you address these, I am done condoning such hypocrisy.

1. Please list the Scriptures you believe describe a literal physical bodily future coming of Christ?
2. Tell us exactly what all happens at this coming?
3. Is the second coming of Christ an ongoing process or a literal future physical climactic event?
4. Is the resurrection of the dead an ongoing process or a literal future physical climactic event?

 

[mkgal1]

No, it is because if you were to express your Full Preterist views you would be banned from this board and would have to stop proselytizing.

You already believe I am a full preterist pretending to be a partial preterist now - and believe it's a full preterist view to believe that the restoration of the People of God happened in 70 AD (what I believe) is heresy (but it's an Orthodox belief) so why would I only give you more reason to misunderstand and misrepresent me? Here's one example of how you've misrepresented me or misunderstood me (and never responded to my request as to where you even got this idea from). When Claninja posted,

Good I'm glad you understand that partial preterists don't believe all the spiritual blessings of Christ were given to Titus ... Well as I am not living in a resurrected immortal body as I type this, I am pretty sure its still future for me.

​

You responded with:

Well that is encouraging.

mkgal previously stated that (and I found it troubling)

I'm not obligated to respond to you (nor are you obligated to respond to me) so nothing is "unfair".

BTW - I am not "proselytizing" (no more than you or anyone else here is that's expressing their beliefs).

 

[mkgal1]

Until you address these, I am done condoning such hypocrisy.

What does that mean?

 

[parousia70]

It is talking about those who are on earth just prior to Christ's one and only future coming.

So you believe Near in this passage means near in the view of natural man, and not in the view of God, contrary to your previous assertion that:
"Other words like “quickly,” “shortly” and “near,” express time from God’s eternal perspective, not man’s natural perspective. It is therefore wrong to force our dim earthly sense of time upon God. It is definitely foolish to build a whole theology upon that."

By claiming in this passage that Jesus is using the word "Near" to express time as it relates to Mans natural perspective, and NOT God's eternal perspective, how then are you not likewise guilty of "forcing your dim earthly sense of time upon God", and "building your theology upon that"?

Maybe you believe it's only OK when YOU do it to support your theology? but not OK when preterists do it to support theirs?

That is the only explanation I can come up with.

 

[sovereigngrace]

What does that mean?

I am done discussing with you any more until you address my queries.

 

[parousia70]

What Scriptures do you believe teaches a literal future coming of Christ?

Matthew 18:20

What Scriptures do you believe teaches a bodily future coming of Christ?

Matthew 18:20

 

[mkgal1]

To SG.....you ignored this question.......

Daniel 7:13-14 says, “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”

This is speaking of Christ rising into the presence of His Father – the Ancient of Days – to receive His reward. The narrative expressly says, “the Son of man … came to the Ancient of days.” This glorious event occurred after the cross when He triumphantly entered into the portals of heaven in a cloud to sit at the right hand of majesty on high.

I was actually asking about v. 11-12. I'm wondering when, in your theology, you have this being fulfilled:

Daniel 7:11-12 ~ Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. “As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.​

 

[sovereigngrace]

You already believe I am a "full preterist pretending to be a partial preterist" now - and believe it's a full preterist view to believe that the restoration of the People of God happened in 70 AD (what I believe) is heresy (but it's an Orthodox belief) so why would I only give you more reason to misunderstand and misrepresent me? Here's one example of how you've misrepresented me or misunderstood me (and never responded to my request as to where you even got this idea from). When Claninja posted,

​

You responded with:

​

I'm not obligated to respond to you (nor are you obligated to respond to me) so nothing is "unfair".

BTW - I am not "proselytizing" (no more than you or anyone else here is that's expressing their beliefs).

You keep quoting BABerean and attributing that to me. That is deceitful!

 

[mkgal1]

I am done discussing with you any more until you address my queries.

Oh.....that's promising to read (that's not really motivation for me to answer your questions, though, if that's what you thought it would be).

 

[mkgal1]

You keep quoting BABerean and attributing that to me. That is deceitful!

I quoted YOU as Sovereign Grace (maybe you're getting your accounts mixed up).

 

[sovereigngrace]

Matthew 18:20



Matthew 18:20

Wow! So you are a Full Preterist! I and others have suspected that for a while! So sad!!! You are deceived by heresy.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I quoted YOU as Sovereign Grace (maybe you're getting your accounts mixed up).

Give me an exact link and post for that direct quote?

 

[mkgal1]

When Christ was in the grave, the Father began pouring out His wrath upon Jerusalem by first shaking the city of Jerusalem with a major earthquake, and then rendering their temple redundant by cutting their curtain in two.

Give me an exact link and post for that direct quote?

Post #584 Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism