Why Christianity?

[alien444]

There are 41,000 Christian denominations.
Christianity Today - General Statistics and Facts of Christianity Today
64% of the world's population are not Christians.(same source)

Why should non-believers chose Christianity if:
1) Christianity claims to have the objective truth for the purpose of humanity, yet cannot come to even a close consensus on God's nature.
2)64% of the worlds population has rejected Christianity as true.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There are 41,000 Christian denominations.
Christianity Today - General Statistics and Facts of Christianity Today
64% of the world's population are not Christians.(same source)

Why should non-believers chose Christianity if:
1) Christianity claims to have the objective truth for the purpose of humanity, yet cannot come to even a close consensus on God's nature.
2)64% of the worlds population has rejected Christianity as true.

Of the two billion Christians in the world, we're pretty much in agreement on God's nature. As we confess our common Creed.

Those self-identified as Christians who reject the orthodox position are in the minority; the majority of us--regardless of church, denomination, or communion--affirm the Creed, either explicitly or implicitly.

Also, the number of 41,000 denominations is a rather inflated number, those numbers exaggerate the facts by doing things like treating (for example) the Russian, Ukrainian, and Greek Orthodox churches as separate churches or "denominations", when Eastern Orthodoxy is a single ecclesiastical entity. Orthodoxy's structure is built around autocephelous bodies in communion together. The numbers also do funny things like treating the different Rites of Catholicism as separate (e.g. the Latin Rite, Byzantine Rite, Maronites, Chaldeans, etc) when again these are distinct "rites" within a single ecclesiastical entity: Catholicism, headed by the pope in Rome. Not to mention the fact that a lot of Protestant denominations have varying levels of national/international presence. For example my own church, the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) is a Lutheran denomination here in the United States, but we exist in communion with Lutheran bodies around the globe, through (namely) the Lutheran World Federation. Or, for example, the member churches of the Anglican Communion (including the Episcopal Church USA).

So I posit that

a) We aren't really all that disagreeing on some of the more fundamental questions of theology, confirming our common, ancient Creed.

b) The numbers exaggerate the reality, misunderstanding the nuances of how it actually is.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[oi_antz]

There are 41,000 Christian denominations.
Christianity Today - General Statistics and Facts of Christianity Today
64% of the world's population are not Christians.(same source)

What constitutes this statistic? I am asking, who decides which person is Christian and which is not?

Why should non-believers chose Christianity if:
1) Christianity claims to have the objective truth for the purpose of humanity, yet cannot come to even a close consensus on God's nature.

The only way you will get a consensus on anything, is to have heirarchy. The reason I say this so generally, is because everyone is an expert in their own right, but not everyone is equally qualified to be an expert. WRT Christianity, the only person at the top of this heirarchy is God. Some Christians don't worship Him in all things, sometimes they worship someone who claims to speak for Him.

2)64% of the worlds population has rejected Christianity as true.

There are impressions of Christianity that don't represent Christ, and I am for the rejection of those as being true. For this to be a useful question, you need to ask whether the truth of Christianity is being rejected, and then ask why. Do you see truth in this statement:

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[steve_bakr]

There are 41,000 Christian denominations.
Christianity Today - General Statistics and Facts of Christianity Today
64% of the world's population are not Christians.(same source)

Why should non-believers chose Christianity if:
1) Christianity claims to have the objective truth for the purpose of humanity, yet cannot come to even a close consensus on God's nature.
2)64% of the worlds population has rejected Christianity as true.

You mean as opposed to another religion or none at all?

 

[alien444]

Of the two billion Christians in the world, we're pretty much in agreement on God's nature. As we confess our common Creed.

Those self-identified as Christians who reject the orthodox position are in the minority; the majority of us--regardless of church, denomination, or communion--affirm the Creed, either explicitly or implicitly.

Also, the number of 41,000 denominations is a rather inflated number, those numbers exaggerate the facts by doing things like treating (for example) the Russian, Ukrainian, and Greek Orthodox churches as separate churches or "denominations", when Eastern Orthodoxy is a single ecclesiastical entity. Orthodoxy's structure is built around autocephelous bodies in communion together. The numbers also do funny things like treating the different Rites of Catholicism as separate (e.g. the Latin Rite, Byzantine Rite, Maronites, Chaldeans, etc) when again these are distinct "rites" within a single ecclesiastical entity: Catholicism, headed by the pope in Rome. Not to mention the fact that a lot of Protestant denominations have varying levels of national/international presence. For example my own church, the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) is a Lutheran denomination here in the United States, but we exist in communion with Lutheran bodies around the globe, through (namely) the Lutheran World Federation. Or, for example, the member churches of the Anglican Communion (including the Episcopal Church USA).

So I posit that

a) We aren't really all that disagreeing on some of the more fundamental questions of theology, confirming our common, ancient Creed.

b) The numbers exaggerate the reality, misunderstanding the nuances of how it actually is.

-CryptoLutheran

I can agree that 41,000 is an inflated number. However, I do not believe that the world's Christians are "pretty much" agreed on the nature of God. Baptists reject all creeds in favor of individual interpretation-- Catholics and Orthodox Christians value the Apocrypha while Baptists, and Methodists outright reject its value-- Reformed Presbyterian allow that the bible is not inerrant-- Baptist, Wesleyan, and Lutherans reject the writings of the church fathers and councils--Baptists claim the Holy Ghost was the direct inspiration for the composition of the bible--not all denominations believe in the existence of angels or demons--not all believe God gave man freewill (Lutherans state we only have freewill to do evil)--do not agree what the soul is--evolution (when or if God intervened during the natural process)--Predestination--the value of good works--End Times (Ex. Lutheran-"We reject every type of millennialism, or Chiliasm, the opinions that Christ will return visibly to this earth a thousand years before the end of the world." (LCMS)--Purgatory


You may say these are merely theological points that do no negate a fundamental agreement of God's nature, but I say that many of these contentions radically affect one's fundamental understanding of God's TRUE nature. I reaffirm my point in the OP, that if Christians can not agree on the nature of God, then how can they expect non-believers to accept that they possess an objective truth about the universe that non-believers do not? Hasn't theology wrestled with the question of God's true nature for centuries with many varying results?

 

[steve_bakr]

I can agree that 41,000 is an inflated number. However, I do not believe that the world's Christians are "pretty much" agreed on the nature of God. Baptists reject all creeds in favor of individual interpretation-- Catholics and Orthodox Christians value the Apocrypha while Baptists, and Methodists outright reject its value-- Reformed Presbyterian allow that the bible is not inerrant-- Baptist, Wesleyan, and Lutherans reject the writings of the church fathers and councils--Baptists claim the Holy Ghost was the direct inspiration for the composition of the bible--not all denominations believe in the existence of angels or demons--not all believe God gave man freewill (Lutherans state we only have freewill to do evil)--do not agree what the soul is--evolution (when or if God intervened during the natural process)--Predestination--the value of good works--End Times (Ex. Lutheran-"We reject every type of millennialism, or Chiliasm, the opinions that Christ will return visibly to this earth a thousand years before the end of the world." (LCMS)--Purgatory

You may say these are merely theological points that do no negate a fundamental agreement of God's nature, but I say that many of these contentions radically affect one's fundamental understanding of God's TRUE nature. I reaffirm my point in the OP, that if Christians can not agree on the nature of God, then how can they expect non-believers to accept that they possess an objective truth about the universe that non-believers do not? Hasn't theology wrestled with the question of God's true nature for centuries with many varying results?

You are saying that, in order for Christianity to contain objective truth, every Christian must agree on theology. That is erroneous. But there are universals in Christianity which are more or less unanimous. People disagree; that's human nature. It is not as if non-believers are united and unanimous in their non-belief systems.

 

[hedrick]

Why Christianity? I would suggest to you that the way of life that Jesus taught is so obviously better than alternatives that even the current secularized form practiced in the West is taking over the world.

I’d say that if you’re going to believe in a god at all, monotheism is the direction that even more sophisticated thinkers from polytheistic cultures adopted. At that point the real question become whether you believe the Christian claim that God loved us so much that he decided to join us and take onto himself the consequences of our brokenness. I know it’s a personal reaction, but it seems to me that such a God is clearly superior to one who just tells us what to do but leaves us alone to do it or not do it. But even if it’s a great idea, is it true?

In the end we come down to the question of whether we can trust the Bible, and the early Christian community that produced it. While I don’t doubt that some of the stories grew in the telling, still, the core account of Jesus seems credible. It doesn’t seem like something that would have grown from that culture without something behind it. And Paul seems to be handing on at least some traditions that go back pretty close to the events.

Note that this doesn’t require rejecting all other religions as phony. I think it’s possible that several of the founders of major religions actually experienced God. I just think that it’s easier to understand the others as incomplete parts of what Christianity shows as the full picture than the reverse.

I’m not so worried about all the different denominations. There are lots of disagreements within most religions. Normally there are a few key points, and differing opinions on everything else is tolerated. I think where Christianity is unusual is that early on it developed the idea that salvation depended upon agreeing on all kinds of ideas of a kind that no other religion would have made tha kind of claim for. I’d suggest that you ignore that, and look at the big picture. On that, the major traditions within Christianity agree as well as any other religion does.

 

[football5680]

1. That's why Jesus established a Church which more than half of all Christians belong to.

2. Not really a proof for anything. 97% of all people reject Atheism, only 10% of the world is irreligious. Does this prove atheism is false? No, it is simply what people believe. If Christianity is true it would be true regardless of whether 1% or 100% believe it.

 

[alien444]

You are saying that, in order for Christianity to contain objective truth, every Christian must agree on theology. That is erroneous. But there are universals in Christianity which are more or less unanimous. People disagree; that's human nature. It is not as if non-believers are united and unanimous in their non-belief systems.

No, I don't think that every point of theology must be agreed upon, but I do believe the vast majority should be. What I am saying is that if you are claiming knowledge that is not objectively verifiable then as a non-believer, I would at least expect everyone to agree on God's nature (his characteristics, attributes, and qualities.) The Greeks and Romans understood exactly what their God's were, what they wanted from humanity, and the behavior of their Gods, for example. Not to say they didn't disagree on some things, but they understood their God's nature very well. Christians claim "mystery" sometimes, yet use specific descriptive terms at others. Furthermore, I believe a lot of the differences between Christian denominations, also speak to the difference in opinion of his nature.

I don't agree that all that there are significant disagreements among non-believers. The only differences are basically 1)How confident you are in your disbelief, and 2)Whether religion should be challenged or tolerated, 3)Whether religion is a good or bad for humanity.

 

[alien444]

Why Christianity? I would suggest to you that the way of life that Jesus taught is so obviously better than alternatives that even the current secularized form practiced in the West is taking over the world.

I’d say that if you’re going to believe in a god at all, monotheism is the direction that even more sophisticated thinkers from polytheistic cultures adopted. At that point the real question become whether you believe the Christian claim that God loved us so much that he decided to join us and take onto himself the consequences of our brokenness. I know it’s a personal reaction, but it seems to me that such a God is clearly superior to one who just tells us what to do but leaves us alone to do it or not do it. But even if it’s a great idea, is it true?

In the end we come down to the question of whether we can trust the Bible, and the early Christian community that produced it. While I don’t doubt that some of the stories grew in the telling, still, the core account of Jesus seems credible. It doesn’t seem like something that would have grown from that culture without something behind it. And Paul seems to be handing on at least some traditions that go back pretty close to the events.

Note that this doesn’t require rejecting all other religions as phony. I think it’s possible that several of the founders of major religions actually experienced God. I just think that it’s easier to understand the others as incomplete parts of what Christianity shows as the full picture than the reverse.

I’m not so worried about all the different denominations. There are lots of disagreements within most religions. Normally there are a few key points, and differing opinions on everything else is tolerated. I think where Christianity is unusual is that early on it developed the idea that salvation depended upon agreeing on all kinds of ideas of a kind that no other religion would have made tha kind of claim for. I’d suggest that you ignore that, and look at the big picture. On that, the major traditions within Christianity agree as well as any other religion does.

Hedrick,

You seem like such a nice guy and never get offended by my questions. It makes it hard for me to argue with you. LOL

 

[ViaCrucis]

I can agree that 41,000 is an inflated number. However, I do not believe that the world's Christians are "pretty much" agreed on the nature of God. Baptists reject all creeds in favor of individual interpretation-- Catholics and Orthodox Christians value the Apocrypha while Baptists, and Methodists outright reject its value-- Reformed Presbyterian allow that the bible is not inerrant-- Baptist, Wesleyan, and Lutherans reject the writings of the church fathers and councils--Baptists claim the Holy Ghost was the direct inspiration for the composition of the bible--not all denominations believe in the existence of angels or demons--not all believe God gave man freewill (Lutherans state we only have freewill to do evil)--do not agree what the soul is--evolution (when or if God intervened during the natural process)--Predestination--the value of good works--End Times (Ex. Lutheran-"We reject every type of millennialism, or Chiliasm, the opinions that Christ will return visibly to this earth a thousand years before the end of the world." (LCMS)--Purgatory

Not all Baptists reject creeds.
Lutherans don't reject the ancient fathers and councils of the undivided Church.

I can't help but feel that you're attempting to parse the theological differences a bit too loosely; as well as making fairly odd generalizations.

The differences of opinion on, say, the role of the Deuterocanonicals hardly has an impact on the Christian confession concerning the nature of God. We confess one God, the Trinity; the One-and-Three. That doesn't change based on whether one sees 1 Maccabees as fully inspired Scripture or as apocryphal; that doesn't change because Arminians believe man has the freedom of will to choose God and Calvinists don't; that doesn't change because Roman Catholics believe in a papal ecclesiology but Orthodox and Protestants don't. Biblical inerrency or not; plenary inspiration or not; nine choirs of angels or two or none; these are hardly matters that radically alter the fundamental teaching of God, in particular the basic Christian confession of Trinitarianism.

It's not that some of these don't constitute legitimate and serious theological disagreement (they do), but they don't change the reality of our underlying Confession, that which is confessed and which makes us actually Christian.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Sketcher]

I spent years with a Southern Baptist affiliated campus ministry. They believed the early creeds. They didn't say bad things about the church fathers either, they just don't consider their writings equal with Scripture. This doesn't mean a categorical rejection of everything they wrote at all.

 

[aiki]

There are 41,000 Christian denominations.
Christianity Today - General Statistics and Facts of Christianity Today
64% of the world's population are not Christians.(same source)

Why should non-believers chose Christianity if:
1) Christianity claims to have the objective truth for the purpose of humanity, yet cannot come to even a close consensus on God's nature.
2)64% of the worlds population has rejected Christianity as true.

As other posters have stated, God's essential nature is not a topic of hot debate in the Christian community. Eschatalogical or soteriological questions, or questions concerning religious traditions, worship forms and peripheral doctrinal issues often get more attention than they deserve and may make it seem to the non-believer that Christian doctrine and theology is more fluid than it is, but the fundamental facts concerning God are not generally in doubt among followers of Christ.

I don't know what difference it makes that a majority of people believe a particular thing. Be careful here that you are not adopting the Argumentum ad Populum fallacy.

Selah.

 

[AvgJoe]

I can agree that 41,000 is an inflated number. However, I do not believe that the world's Christians are "pretty much" agreed on the nature of God. Baptists reject all creeds in favor of individual interpretation-- Catholics and Orthodox Christians value the Apocrypha while Baptists, and Methodists outright reject its value-- Reformed Presbyterian allow that the bible is not inerrant-- Baptist, Wesleyan, and Lutherans reject the writings of the church fathers and councils--Baptists claim the Holy Ghost was the direct inspiration for the composition of the bible--not all denominations believe in the existence of angels or demons--not all believe God gave man freewill (Lutherans state we only have freewill to do evil)--do not agree what the soul is--evolution (when or if God intervened during the natural process)--Predestination--the value of good works--End Times (Ex. Lutheran-"We reject every type of millennialism, or Chiliasm, the opinions that Christ will return visibly to this earth a thousand years before the end of the world." (LCMS)--Purgatory


You may say these are merely theological points that do no negate a fundamental agreement of God's nature, but I say that many of these contentions radically affect one's fundamental understanding of God's TRUE nature. I reaffirm my point in the OP, that if Christians can not agree on the nature of God, then how can they expect non-believers to accept that they possess an objective truth about the universe that non-believers do not? Hasn't theology wrestled with the question of God's true nature for centuries with many varying results?

There are the Essentials of Christianty that one/a denomination/a group must believe/agree on, in order to be Christian. All Christian denominations/churches/groups believe/agree on these essentials or they are not Christian. The Essentials of Christianity are:

1. The deity of Christ.
2. Salvation by grace.
3. Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
4. The resurrection of Christ.
5. The gospel.
6. Monotheism.
7. The Holy Trinity.

All other beliefs are non-essential and that's where the varying beliefs/different denominations come into play. While we may debate nonessentials without dividing over them, when it comes to essential Christian doctrine there must be unity. Hence, the maxim: In essentials unity, nonessentials liberty, and in all things charity.

For further study: http://www.gotquestions.org/essentials-Christian-faith.html

 

[ForJesusChrist]

Why should non-believers chose Christianity if:
1) Christianity claims to have the objective truth for the purpose of humanity, yet cannot come to even a close consensus on God's nature.
2)64% of the worlds population has rejected Christianity as true.

1. Why do you believe we do not know God's nature?


2. 60% of the world lives in Asia, I live in America. 50% of the worlds population is female. I'm a male. Just because others do something, does not mean you should do it, no does it mean its correct. As Grandma always tells me, "if your buddy jumped off a bridge, would you?"

Happy to answer any other questions as well.

God Bless

 

[1watchman]

There are 41,000 Christian denominations.
Christianity Today - General Statistics and Facts of Christianity Today
64% of the world's population are not Christians.(same source)

Why should non-believers chose Christianity if:
1) Christianity claims to have the objective truth for the purpose of humanity, yet cannot come to even a close consensus on God's nature.
2)64% of the worlds population has rejected Christianity as true.

Why Christianity? One might well ask: why Hell? Would one rather have Hell? We are born with a malady of sin and self-indulgence, and far off from God (under control by Satan "the god of this world" in control of us, as the Bible tells us). Without Christianity and Christ we have no hope and no peace.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

There are 41,000 Christian denominations.
Christianity Today - General Statistics and Facts of Christianity Today
64% of the world's population are not Christians.(same source)

Why should non-believers chose Christianity if:
1) Christianity claims to have the objective truth for the purpose of humanity, yet cannot come to even a close consensus on God's nature.
2)64% of the worlds population has rejected Christianity as true.

All mainline Christian Denominations agree on the character, nature, and essence of God . The differences that Christian Denominations have are not salvation related nor are God oriented, heaven / hell oriented, who Christ is, the resurrection or what he accomplished on the cross. The differences are more or less styles with various emphasizes on specific issues like speaking in tongues or method of baptizing with water.

IF the statistic is true on the rejection of Christianity, it isn't because for lack of scientific and historical evidence. Most people simply don't want to look at the evidence and assume its not there, or, they want to buy into the common cynical mantras because they wouldn't surrender to Christ even if he were real. Its pride and arrogance that people struggle with and not for lack of evidence. One friend who claims to be an atheist says :'I just want to be my own god' . So much for the search of objective truth. Subjective desires often win out over the desire for truth.

The evidence is readily available for Christ if a person wants it. ANd if you go looking with an unbiased Mind, youll find it and be amazed. It will be so compelling that it will bring you to the finality of : Do I give my life to him or do I keep it for myself so I can be my own authority and choose lifestyles I want to be engaged in ? Many people get as far as believing Christ is real and who he said he is....but wont go the final step of getting saved from sins which means SURRENDER . It took me a while to get there, but praise God, I did with his grace and love .

If you truly want to realize your ultimate purpose in life and have a life of true fulfillment, purpose, and meaning...then it starts and stops with knowing the Creator of the universe personally . What could be better, bigger, or more important than that ? The choice is given us ... and eternity will either show great regret or great joy to each and every one of us. Far better to get to know God know...than wanting to , later.

If and when you reach the point of truly wanting to look at the evidence, pm me and ill hook you up with a good resource book that is still my favorite for the evidences.

 

[South Bound]

There are 41,000 Christian denominations.

Not true. That claim has been debunked many, many times.

Why should non-believers chose Christianity

Stop right there. I don't care if non-believers "choose" Christianity.

The issue is not whether or not they "choose Christianity", but whether or not they repent, receive Christ's atonement on their behalf by faith, and submit to His Lordship.

1) Christianity claims to have the objective truth for the purpose of humanity, yet cannot come to even a close consensus on God's nature.

Actually, the various creeds, confessions, and catechisms of Christianity show that there is a consensus.

Second, what does that matter? Are you searching for the truth? Or are you just looking to follow a popular opinion?

2)64% of the worlds population has rejected Christianity as true.

That it's not 100% is only by the grace of God. Sinners hate God and are in rebellion against Him. Why should it surprise you that they would reject Him?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

No, I don't think that every point of theology must be agreed upon, but I do believe the vast majority should be. What I am saying is that if you are claiming knowledge that is not objectively verifiable then as a non-believer, I would at least expect everyone to agree on God's nature (his characteristics, attributes, and qualities.) The Greeks and Romans understood exactly what their God's were, what they wanted from humanity, and the behavior of their Gods, for example. Not to say they didn't disagree on some things, but they understood their God's nature very well. Christians claim "mystery" sometimes, yet use specific descriptive terms at others. Furthermore, I believe a lot of the differences between Christian denominations, also speak to the difference in opinion of his nature.

I don't agree that all that there are significant disagreements among non-believers. The only differences are basically 1)How confident you are in your disbelief, and 2)Whether religion should be challenged or tolerated, 3)Whether religion is a good or bad for humanity.

A Christian is a follower of Christ, not a follower of Christians.

Now I would answer your question from another angle. If there was a teacher who was world renown for his knowledge of Mathematics and was perfect as it. Let's say he taught Maths to 20 students. Each of those students had students and as other outside teachers came along, they influenced some of those students to solve problems in a different way and they too had students. 6 generations down, you have a lot of different groups of students, each claiming that they are following the methods of the world renown teacher. Of course this would be confusing. But if I want to know Maths I would want to follow the world renown Math teacher.

My point is this. The state of the Christian world now is a plan of the devil to discourage others. God is not an author of confusion, Satan is. What he wants people like you to do, is to look at the state of the Christian world instead of looking at the state of the Perfect Christ. That is the reason you should want to be a christian. Because of Christ and how he compares to all of your other options. This is what Christ says:

Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Sure there is confusion now, but there is coming a time when there will be one fold and one shepherd. My advice to you is to follow the Shepherd and not the sheep.

 

[theophilus777]

Mr Alien, if you are still with us it would help if you revise your OP. Some of the statements there you accept Christian revision of, and some things you may still staunchly support. Time to clarify?