Why Christianity?

[Petra Rocks]

I'm in a bit of a crisis as far as religious beliefs go. Namely, I don't have any. Since I tend to base my life on my metaethics, this is a bit of a problem for me. So, I'm looking for a faith tradition or philosophical set of ethics to live with. I came here to explore the Christian tradition.

I know a fair bit about the faith already, so I'll just cut the point of my objections. The first is Darwinism. The second is all these Biblical 'prophecies' that look cherry-picked like Matthew's or didn't come true at all like Ezekiel 29:10. Doesn't seem likely a truly prophetic God would rely on such lame prophecies or give false ones. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[salida]

I'm a christian spiritually first and secondly for intellectual reasons. Christianity has the most circumstancial evidence than anything period. Read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell(it would stand up in a court of law concerning circumstancial evidence) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest).
Below are some facts about the bible.

Also, other religions think they can work their way to heaven but they won't be able to. Ask yourself, Are you a good person? http://www.livingwaters.com/good Can you keep all the 10 Commandments 100% of the time all the time. Only Jesus did. This is different from being a good natured or bad natured person- I'm not talking about that.

Also, I'm a scientist and believe in microevolution and some macroevolution; but darwinism is a farce.


Below is some biblical information in a nutshell.

Biblical Circumstancial Evidence (Scratching the Surface Only)

Internal Evidences
Prophesies that are confirmed within Bible

- Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke's time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 -Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

**I can list at least 20 more of these.
-Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20) and a fourth great kingdom to follow - part iron and clay - which is the Roman Empire - during this empire Christ came and the church was established - Daniel 2:44.

-Historical Accuracy
The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago, yet has not been proven incorrect on any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies
New Testament - 5,686
Homer - 643
Demosthenes - 200
Plato - 7
Caesar - 10

Consistency
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.

External Evidences
(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never be built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22)
Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-28)

Bible before Science
He hangs the earth on nothing - Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago - some scholars think it could be even 3000 years ago)
Note: Man only knew this for 350 years
Earth is a sphere, Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight, Job 28:25
Gravity - Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33
Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogoical Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

 

[salida]

I'm a christian spiritually first and secondly for intellectual reasons. Christianity has the most circumstancial evidence than anything period. Read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell(it would stand up in a court of law concerning circumstancial evidence) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest).
Below are some facts about the bible. All the prophesies have come true except some in Revelation hasn't.

Also, other religions think they can work their way to heaven but they won't be able to. Ask yourself, Are you a good person? The Good Test Can you keep all the 10 Commandments 100% of the time all the time. Only Jesus did. This is different from being a good natured or bad natured person- I'm not talking about that.

Also, I'm a scientist and believe in microevolution and some macroevolution; but darwinism is a farce. Just one example out of many - the survival of the fittest myth. A lion doesn't check out the weakest deer and than eats it - it goes after the one that is left behind and the most easiest to get.


Below is some biblical information in a nutshell.

Biblical Circumstancial Evidence (Scratching the Surface Only)

Internal Evidences
Prophesies that are confirmed within Bible

- Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke's time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 -Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

**I can list at least 20 more of these.
-Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20) and a fourth great kingdom to follow - part iron and clay - which is the Roman Empire - during this empire Christ came and the church was established - Daniel 2:44.

-Historical Accuracy
The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago, yet has not been proven incorrect on any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies
New Testament - 5,686
Homer - 643
Demosthenes - 200
Plato - 7
Caesar - 10

Consistency
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.

External Evidences
(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never be built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22)
Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-28)

Bible before Science
He hangs the earth on nothing - Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago - some scholars think it could be even 3000 years ago)
Note: Man only knew this for 350 years
Earth is a sphere, Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight, Job 28:25
Gravity - Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33
Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogoical Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

 

[Petra Rocks]

Wow, wall o'text. I'm going to have to cut this up. I've seen most of this before since I read Evidence that Demands a Verdict and was pretty underwhelmed.

- Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke's time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 -Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

All of these are meaningless since we have no evidence Jesus actually was any of these things other than the Gospel account. If Matthew was trying to make Jesus sound like the Messiah, those would be pretty easy prophecies to claim since it isn't possible then or now to check on them.

In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20) and a fourth great kingdom to follow - part iron and clay - which is the Roman Empire - during this empire Christ came and the church was established - Daniel 2:44.

If it mentioned Greece and Rome by name, I would be impressed. But all it mentions are the Persians (who were around then) and some other Kingdoms. That two empires would rise and fall somewhere on earth at some point in the future does not an impressive prophecy make.

New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years

True. But that only establishes that the copies we now have fit the original, not that the original is accurate.

Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no internal inconsistencies.

Depends on how far your stretch internal inconsistency.

It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.

The Qur'an does.

External Evidences
(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never be built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22)
Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-28)

Most of the cities of the ancient world have been sacked at one point or another. Tyre is still around anyway.

Bible before Science
He hangs the earth on nothing - Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago - some scholars think it could be even 3000 years ago)
Note: Man only knew this for 350 years
Earth is a sphere, Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight, Job 28:25
Gravity - Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33
Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Depends on whose cosmology you used. That the earth is a sphere is not really new, neither is the fact that things go down when you drop them.

Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

How?

 

[Van]

Hi Petra Rocks, so you are in a "crisis?" You do not accept the evidence that the Bible has the fingerprint of God, rather than a construction of men. But you do not accept the Qur'an either. If your presupposition is God is a fiction, then even if the evidence was sufficient for the open minded, you would be "underwhelmed." It is hardly news that many people do not actually believe the Bible.

Is your "metaethics" based on "me first" or the Christian tradition of "me last?"

 

[Petra Rocks]

Hi Petra Rocks, so you are in a "crisis?" You do not accept the evidence that the Bible has the fingerprint of God, rather than a construction of men. But you do not accept the Qur'an either. If your presupposition is God is a fiction, then even if the evidence was sufficient for the open minded, you would be "underwhelmed." It is hardly news that many people do not actually believe the Bible.

Is your "metaethics" based on "me first" or the Christian tradition of "me last?"

My metaethics currently do not exist. I do not have any moral formulation, I see nothing right or wrong with torturing people to death for fun. As one who tends to live out his beliefs, this is rather disturbing both to me and those around me, so I'm looking for a way to something a bit more positive.

As for my standard of proof, I am looking for a religion that doesn't self-contradict or contradict massive outside evidence. I am willing to adopt a belief in absence of evidence, not one in the teeth of evidence.


Thus my problem with A. Cosmology. Believing in a YEC model straight from the Bible hits science hard, believing in theistic evolution makes Genesis written in some sort of code that was indecipherable until we found out for ourselves outside the Bible. Either way, God was pretty sloppy.

B. Prophecy. If God makes false prophecies, e.g. Ezekial 29:10, well, I doubt I have to explain how much of a hash of Christian theology that makes.

 

[Van]

So you tend to base your life on "my metaethics" but your "metaethics" does not exist.

Next you say you see nothing wrong with people torturing you to death for fun.

Next you object to the Bible because you do not accept the YEC view. Next you claim believing in theistic evolution means Genesis was written in code.

You have repeatedly said Ezekial 29:10 is a problem for you but you have not explained why you see it as a problem.

 

[Petra Rocks]

So you tend to base your life on "my metaethics" but your "metaethics" does not exist.

Next you say you see nothing wrong with people torturing you to death for fun.

Next you object to the Bible because you do not accept the YEC view. Next you claim believing in theistic evolution means Genesis was written in code.

You have repeatedly said Ezekial 29:10 is a problem for you but you have not explained why you see it as a problem.

Doesn't exist now, it has in the past. You are correct, those are my objections. Are they wrong? The problems is that the verse prophcies that Egypt will be uninhabited for 40 years after an invasion from Babylon, something that historically didn't happen.

 

[ArteestX]

.... I am looking for a religion that doesn't self-contradict or contradict massive outside evidence. I am willing to adopt a belief in absence of evidence, not one in the teeth of evidence.

I highly recommend Unitarian Universalism (look at uua.org for a nearby congregation). Good luck to you in your spiritual journey!

 

[Van]

In the past, when your "metaethics" existed, was it based on "me first" or on "me last?"

Lets say there are two views of a particular verse, one right and one wrong. To reject the Bible because a wrong view exists concerning one verse does not seem sound to me.

Thus to reject the Bible because the YEC view seems wrong to you seems unsound.

How could a person who thinks it is ok to be tortured for the fun of it ever be in crisis?

I certainly do not know whether the prophecy was fulfilled in full or in part. Lets assume Nebuchadnezzar laid waste the the land and took people captive. Could we not equate "40 years" with "a generational period of time" and "not one foot" with hyperbole?

Thus because of the sparsity of evidence, I can assume the prophecy was fulfilled and therefore the Bible remains trustworthy.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi,

The following is a list of reasons that I believe as I do. Firstly there are experiences of other people; then there are my experiences.

The following is a list of a few people who have had notible experiences with God.

This guy died after being stung by box jellyfish. God spoke to him as he was dying and he became a "born again Christian". God raised him back to life again, so he could share what he had seen of death. His story can be read in PDF format at http://www.aglimpseofeternity.org/content/pages/documents/1206980519.pdf

This guy had a similar death experience but was shown hell (instead of heaven), then raised back to life. See Back from the Dead, by Athet Pyan Shinthaw Paulu

This guy got on local TV for healing a wheelchair bound guy; he also has a lot of testimonies of sick people being healed from his prayer. John Mellor Ministries

Then there are my experiences this is a list of some of the experiences that I have had as a Christian.

One morning I got up and walked into the hall and I heard a voice say "How would you like to be stabbed in the Valley". The Valley was the rough end of town, and the voice scared me a little, I wondered if I had done something to offend God. I had planned to go down to the Valley to ask people out to church as was my habit at the time. In the end I went anyway regardless of the fear. I walked up to the first person I met and asked him if he would like to go out to church. He said to me "I am an atheist, I don't believe in God". I just said "fine", but hoped to change his mind. He then proceeded to unbutton his shirt and showed me scar marks up and down his chest and stomach. He said to me, "I was attacked by a knife wielding man in the Valley some time ago and spent months recovering in hospital, How could God allow that to happen to me". Then I knew why God had said in the morning "How would I like to be stabbed?". God understood this man, but had a good plan for him. Some weeks latter this man came out to church and became a Christian.

Some time after the second Gulf War an Australian man Douglas Wood was captured by terrorists in Iraq, who made demands for a ransom or he would be executed. I set about fasting and praying for his release, I said to God "You know where he is....tell me". Three words entered my mind ABC, Bizaar and "A-meal". I thought "I am going crazy what has all that got to do with him. Bizaar I though "this is Bizarre". I thought maybe "A-meal" is a town so I searched a map of Iraq for a town of that name, but found nothing that really matched. Some time latter Douglas Wood was freed by US troops who came across his captors. It was not until latter that I actually discovered what the three words meant. I was on a forum libertyunites.us and came across a post by a user called ABC in the post she appealed to the captors to release Douglas Wood because he had gone to a/or the Bazaar and bought food for homeless people and had provided them with "A-meal". I believe God saw this action too and blessed Douglas Wood with an escape from his captors.

One time I thought about suing some one but felt bad about it because I did not want to give a bad impression about what a Christian is like. So I prayed and asked God to show me clearly what to do. Latter that day I opened my bible at random, selecting a random verse and it opened to 1Co 6:7 "Nay, already it is altogether a defect in you, that ye have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? why not rather be defrauded?" So I knew what God was thinking, no lawsuit. From this I don not believe God was saying all law suits are wrong just this one was.

At one point in my life I was praying for scientific cures for illnesses like cancer. Because I was on a science kick I thought would it not be fun to create a real life dinosaur. I wanted Jesus just for fun to show me how to create a Real Live Dinosaur, he can show us anything you know if he wants, but when I asked him how to start recreating a Dinosaur. Jesus spoke into my head the sentence "I bood", it entered my mind when I was awake, a term I had never heard before. I decided to look it up on the Internet and I found out the following: You see, the children of Semai are taught from an early age, the concept of "bood." If a parent asks a child to do something and the child replies "I bood," in other words, "I don't feel like doing that," the matter is closed. Bood means gently No.

One day I was witnessing to a Muslim and he asked me why we ate pork. I used the verse out of the bible which says "It is not what enters the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of the mouth". After some general discussion I finished for the night. I asked God to give me a verse from the bible to encourage me. I opened the bible at random and selected a random verse. It opened to the exact same verse that I had used with the Muslim. The one about food not defiling. So I knew that God was approving of what I had been talking about.
"What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him "unclean.'"- Mat 15:11

 

[Lost Hope -w-]

Hi

Being an Agnostic i take into account everything, but don't accept any knowledge or belief that God does exist. Or can be said I have "a religious orientation of doubt".

For example, Prior to Christianity we had religious beliefs, other cultures such as the Greeks, Egyptians who all believed in a number of diffrent gods. Therefore, arent they not false idols? Are the condemned?

Another thing for me is that "greatdreams.com/2012.htm"
The 2012 theory's that are "meant" to occur in my mind after comparing it to the "revelations" seems to fit together. Thus pushing my belief in Gods plan. But i am not religious. Yet i feel like, if i don't believe, Im not going to be able to save myself. However no matter how much i read or try to bring myself round to religious belief i object everything. Even if i know its right. It's like i have a mental block.

I wouldnt say i was a bad person, i try to follow the commandments, but havent repented for my sins, as i am not religious.
Im borderlined between Religion and theory.

Im not sure what to turn to or what to belive, maybe i live in fear of what happens to me after this life.

Any suggestions of what to do?

 

[bluelime2]

Hi

Being an Agnostic i take into account everything, but don't accept any knowledge or belief that God does exist. Or can be said I have "a religious orientation of doubt".

For example, Prior to Christianity we had religious beliefs, other cultures such as the Greeks, Egyptians who all believed in a number of diffrent gods. Therefore, arent they not false idols? Are the condemned?

Another thing for me is that "greatdreams.com/2012.htm"
The 2012 theory's that are "meant" to occur in my mind after comparing it to the "revelations" seems to fit together. Thus pushing my belief in Gods plan. But i am not religious. Yet i feel like, if i don't believe, Im not going to be able to save myself. However no matter how much i read or try to bring myself round to religious belief i object everything. Even if i know its right. It's like i have a mental block.

I wouldnt say i was a bad person, i try to follow the commandments, but havent repented for my sins, as i am not religious.
Im borderlined between Religion and theory.

Im not sure what to turn to or what to belive, maybe i live in fear of what happens to me after this life.

Any suggestions of what to do?

Yep. Ask God if he's real and ask him to show you how to have a two-way relationship with him. That's why christ died. I have that and so do most of the christians I know.

It's something that God wants to give to anyone who wants it.

 

[Digit]

I'm in a bit of a crisis as far as religious beliefs go. Namely, I don't have any. Since I tend to base my life on my metaethics, this is a bit of a problem for me. So, I'm looking for a faith tradition or philosophical set of ethics to live with. I came here to explore the Christian tradition.

I know a fair bit about the faith already, so I'll just cut the point of my objections. The first is Darwinism. The second is all these Biblical 'prophecies' that look cherry-picked like Matthew's or didn't come true at all like Ezekiel 29:10. Doesn't seem likely a truly prophetic God would rely on such lame prophecies or give false ones. Any help is much appreciated.

Hello o/

I think it's good you are searching for something. I tend to approach things like this from a sort of mathematical point of view, in that I treat my objects like denominators. I find the lowest one first, and resolve it. You raised Darwinism - so you feel that evolutionary theory conflicts with the creation account in Genesis potentially? This is a rather large topic, but when looking for such fine details in the Bible like this, it's truly best to look at what the original (or as close to the original as possible) texts said. There is a handy website called Blue Letter Bible which allows you to search for Bible verses and then analyse the original Hebrew text, where translations are given for each word. If you want to skip ahead, and feel that you can trust writers/authors of Christian sites, many have already done this and have put up detailed accounts of their findings. This is why there is an origins view called Theistic Evolution - which means that theists (people who believe in a god) believe that that god set our universe in motion, including the mechanics of evolution.

That's a very short summary, but I would encourage you to read and research, if you want some links I can happily oblige.