Why believe in hell?

[Abbadon]

Believing in Christ is to believe not just Christ existed, but to believe in everything He did and stood for.

Which is to believe in hell.

No, that just calls for acknowledging it's existance or possibility thereof. Do you believe in Hell as you believe in Jesus, or as children do in Santa Claus?

 

[Montalban]

No, that just calls for acknowledging it's existance or possibility thereof.

Of Jesus , or hell?

Do you believe in Hell as you believe in Jesus, or as children do in Santa Claus?

As stated already, I believe in Jesus. In believing in Jesus I accept everything that He believes in, and that includes hell.

 

[Abbadon]

Of Jesus , or hell?

I meant hell. Shame on you for thinking otherwise of me. (shakes finger).

As stated already, I believe in Jesus. In believing in Jesus I accept everything that He believes in, and that includes hell.

I've not heard of Jesus having faith in hell, I've heard Him acknowledge hell.

Does your faith in God depend on hell existing? If not, then why do you feel compelled to have faith in it? I believe there is a hell, I just don't believe in it.

 

[Cassiopeia]

What I don't get is how come it is so hard to talk about how the belief in hell makes us feel. And what other religions believe in. Instead like other threads this is being used as platform to argue the point "cos Jesus said so."

HERE'S YOUR SIGN!

At least Montalban did say that his belief in it makes him feel loved by Jesus.

I am wondering if anyone feels they must obey Jesus or they are going to burn in hell and if that makes them feel good or just keeps them on the straight and narrow path.

 

[Cassiopeia]

I meant hell. Shame on you for thinking otherwise of me. (shakes finger).



I've not heard of Jesus having faith in hell, I've heard Him acknowledge hell.

Does your faith in God depend on hell existing? If not, then why do you feel compelled to have faith in it? I believe there is a hell, I just don't believe in it.

um...hun..do you mean you believe in but you don't have faith in it?

 

[arunma]

HEY! that is really not nice. i would appreciate it if you and arunma and others would stick to the topic.

Montalban isn't trying to be rude (at least not as far as I can tell), and he certainly isn't trying to make an antisemitic joke. He's speaking in the same spirit that I do when I make Indian jokes. I'm somewhat well known on these forums for having very little tolerance towards racist beliefs, as you can tell from my recent condemnation of Galilean's belief in Western spiritual superiority. I think it's blatently obvious that Montalban's joke was just that: a joke.

Besides this, it cannot be denied that Jewish comedians are absolutely hilarious.

And if I may add another question...

If you believe in Hell, are you happy that Hell exists or do you wish that it didn't? Or do you have some other belief?

I most certainly do not rejoice that people are in hell. There are many doctrines of Christianity that I don't love. But the purpose of any organized religion is for the believer to conform himself to the establishment, not for him to conform the religion to his own personal desires. There are plenty of doctrines that don't make me happy. For example, I don't rejoice that Moses and Joshua had to destroy so many Canaanite villiages in order to fulfill God's plan, or that God has ordained that not everyone will come to faith in Christ. But that doesn't take away the theological significance of these things. Ultimately, I know that God is smarter than me. If he sends unbelievers in Christ to hell, it is out of his own wisdom, and I don't presume to know more than him.

 

[Montalban]

I meant hell. Shame on you for thinking otherwise of me. (shakes finger).

You'd left some doubt as to which you were talking about. I seek clarification if I don't know/understand.

I've not heard of Jesus having faith in hell, I've heard Him acknowledge hell.

So? I believe Jesus. Jesus believes in hell. I believe in hell. End of story.

Does your faith in God depend on hell existing? If not, then why do you feel compelled to have faith in it?

As stated, Jesus knows it, I believe Jesus.

I believe there is a hell, I just don't believe in it.

This makes no sense.

 

[Abbadon]

um...hun..do you mean you believe in but you don't have faith in it?

"Believe in" too often sounds like faith. People say "if you don't believe in this, you don't believe in Jesus", it's become synonymous with "having faith in". So I'm sticking to believing there is a hell, but not believing in it.

 

[Druweid]

Greetings!

In the pagan beliefs is there anything like hell?

Since there are a wide variety of belief systems considered Pagan, there is also a wide variety of answers to that question.

Some ancient Pagans believed the evil and wicked were sent to a place called Tartarus after death. Tartarus was something of a "lower level of hell" than Hades. Ancient Greeks also attributed it as a place where Zeus cast his worst enemies. Ancient Romans depicted it much like the Christian hell, being a place surrounded by a flaming river. I think there were ways one could earn redemption from Tartarus, but I don't remember how. There are Hellenistic Neopagans who still follow this belief to one degree or another.

The Norse believed in a place called Niflheim, and I believe present day Asatru still follow this as well.

I think the concept of reincarnation is more prevelant with Neopagans than ancient Pagan cultures, but then, it might just seem that way for lack of written histories. There are indications, albeit few, that ancient Pagans, particularly the Norse, were at least familiar with the concept.

According to a thread in the UT section of the forum, these concepts that are in Christianity are from pagan beliefs that are assimilated from the early pagan converts. Is there any truth to this?

Sure, but it's all arguable. I'm sure the name of the Norse Goddess of the underworld being "Hel" is completely coincidental.

Respectfully,
Druweid

 

[Abbadon]

You'd left some doubt as to which you were talking about. I seek clarification if I don't know/understand.


So? I believe Jesus. Jesus believes in hell. I believe in hell. End of story.

As stated, Jesus knows it, I believe Jesus.


This makes no sense.

Look, do you believe in Hell, as you believe in Jesus?

Do you believe in the chair you're sitting in? Probably not, but you believe it exists. You don't have faith in it, but you very much accept the idea that it exists. But you don't believe in the chair the same way you do Christ, do you?

 

[Montalban]

Look, do you believe in Hell, as you believe in Jesus?
I thought I'd answered you already. I believe what Jesus did and said. Jesus
believes in hell, so therefore must I.

Probably not, but you believe it exists. You don't have faith in it, but you very much accept the idea that it exists. But you don't believe in the chair the same way you do Christ, do you?

I believe in Jesus. I have faith in Jesus. I believe Jesus is real. I believe He exists.

Jesus taught us many things. I believe these things. I trust them to be true, EVEN IF I've not experienced them (He has told me about 'the Father' and I've never seen God the Father). I believe hell exists because Jesus' message contains a warning of hell. I've not experienced hell. I trust Jesus. Therefore BY VIRTUE it is part of Jesus (His teachings) I believe it exists.

Get it?

 

[Abbadon]

Look, do you believe in Hell, as you believe in Jesus?
I thought I'd answered you already. I believe what Jesus did and said. Jesus
believes in hell, so therefore must I.

I believe in Jesus. I have faith in Jesus. I believe Jesus is real. I believe He exists.

Jesus taught us many things. I believe these things. I trust them to be true, EVEN IF I've not experienced them (He has told me about 'the Father' and I've never seen God the Father). I believe hell exists because Jesus' message contains a warning of hell. I've not experienced hell. I trust Jesus. Therefore BY VIRTUE it is part of Jesus (His teachings) I believe it exists.

Get it?

Yes, that's what I do, I just don't believe in hell the way I believe in the Holy spirit.

 

[Montalban]

Yes, that's what I do, I just don't believe in hell the way I believe in the Holy spirit.

I think you and I differ over the term 'believe in'.

 

[Cassiopeia]

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Montalban isn't trying to be rude (at least not as far as I can tell), and he certainly isn't trying to make an antisemitic joke. He's speaking in the same spirit that I do when I make Indian jokes. I'm somewhat well known on these forums for having very little tolerance towards racist beliefs, as you can tell from my recent condemnation of Galilean's belief in Western spiritual superiority. I think it's blatently obvious that Montalban's joke was just that: a joke.

Besides this, it cannot be denied that Jewish comedians are absolutely hilarious.



I most certainly do not rejoice that people are in hell. There are many doctrines of Christianity that I don't love. But the purpose of any organized religion is for the believer to conform himself to the establishment, not for him to conform the religion to his own personal desires. There are plenty of doctrines that don't make me happy. For example, I don't rejoice that Moses and Joshua had to destroy so many Canaanite villiages in order to fulfill God's plan, or that God has ordained that not everyone will come to faith in Christ. But that doesn't take away the theological significance of these things. Ultimately, I know that God is smarter than me. If he sends unbelievers in Christ to hell, it is out of his own wisdom, and I don't presume to know more than him.

But how does this make you feel? FEEEEEEEEEEEL...not what you think...FEEEL

 

[Abbadon]

I think you and I differ over the term 'believe in'.

I don't believe in that statement, but I do believe it, and agree with it.

 

[9Harmony]

To what end would one diliberately choose to believe in hell?

With the various religions represented on this forum, I would like to know what the different beliefs are. Is it called hell? Is it the same as Christianity's version of hell? What purpose does it serve to hold such beliefs?

Hi Casi,

As long as this thread is I figured you must have already gotten a response from a Baha'i, but I just looked through and didn't see one.

From a Baha'i perspective, heaven and hell are not physical places, but rather states of being. Heaven being nearness to God, and Hell being remoteness from God. Including infinite states between the two extremes.

The purpose in holding this belief to me, is that it puts the responsibility of our spiritual destination solely on our own shoulders. Our job in this life is to develop our spiritual life, striving to cultivate our lives in line with spiritual principles. There is no automatic admittance, words without deeds are of little value. Also, the purpose in holding this belief is the understanding that no one group of people has a corner on the market of heaven. Each and every person is responsible for one life only and that is their own.

In the Baha'i belief, we can only make spiritual progress of our own accord while on earth, once we die, our progress lies with the mercy of God, and in the prayers offered on our behalf. But we do not believe that hell is eternal. We believe all souls will continue to make progress until they attain the presence of God.


-Amy

 

[Cassiopeia]

Hi Casi,

As long as this thread is I figured you must have already gotten a response from a Baha'i, but I just looked through and didn't see one.

From a Baha'i perspective, heaven and hell are not physical places, but rather states of being. Heaven being nearness to God, and Hell being remoteness from God. Including infinite states between the two extremes.

The purpose in holding this belief to me, is that it puts the responsibility of our spiritual destination solely on our own shoulders. Our job in this life is to develop our spiritual life, striving to cultivate our lives in line with spiritual principles. There is no automatic admittance, words without deeds are of little value. Also, the purpose in holding this belief is the understanding that no one group of people has a corner on the market of heaven. Each and every person is responsible for one life only and that is their own.

In the Baha'i belief, we can only make spiritual progress of our own accord while on earth, once we die, our progress lies with the mercy of God, and in the prayers offered on our behalf. But we do not believe that hell is eternal. We believe all souls will continue to make progress until they attain the presence of God.


-Amy

Thanks Amy!!! that is really want I wanted to know. Very interesting post. I am going to really meditate on that because it does seem to make alot of sense to me.

 

[arunma]

But how does this make you feel? FEEEEEEEEEEEL...not what you think...FEEEL

The doctrine of hell makes me value the efficacy of Christ's blood for salvation even more, and it gives me a better understanding of why the plan of God required that Jesus die and be raised to life. It's also a profound mystery that the joy of the saints is not abated by the suffering of those who are in hell.

 

[Cassiopeia]

The doctrine of hell makes me value the efficacy of Christ's blood for salvation even more, and it gives me a better understanding of why the plan of God required that Jesus die and be raised to life. It's also a profound mystery that the joy of the saints is not abated by the suffering of those who are in hell.

Thank you, that is what I wanted to know

 

[9Harmony]

Thanks Amy!!! that is really want I wanted to know. Very interesting post. I am going to really meditate on that because it does seem to make alot of sense to me.

Thanks Casi!

lol! that's kinda funny, because i had actually typed out "I hope this is what you wanted to know" and "it just makes sense to me", but then deleted it. and here you go and answer both of my unspoken remarks. hehe