Why Atheism?

[GryffinSong]

Nothing specifically geared me away from religion that I can recall. I can't remember ever believing in a god, but in thinking about this, if I had, there are several things that have struck me strongly over the years.

First off, is the absolute confidence that so many religious people have that they are the only ones who are right. But there are seemingly bazillions of different religions, and within a general religion, many different denominations. There's simply no way they can all be right, and it seems rather odd to me that any given person could be so convinced they have the only truth.

I went out with a fellow who had trained to be a Catholic priest. He told me numerous stories of stuff he was taught. All situations where the religious stories had been changed for human reasons, having nothing to do with divine this or that. If that was true within the short years that he studied it, how much many human changes must have been injected during the last 2000 years. It seems to me that the odds of anything coming through in a recognizable fashion is about zero. Ever played telephone?

It seemed that the people I met, who were the most religious, were the people with the most problems. As a child, it looked to me like a crutch, to get them through their terrible lives.

Now, all that said, I DO believe that there's a chance there's something behind religion. Some basic truths that religion attempts to explain. I don't know what it is, and if it turns out to be a greater being of some kind, I suspect he/she/it won't care what path we take, as long as we are learning, growing, and living good lives. I also feel, quite strongly, in fact, that the explanations I've heard from religions seem really unlikely. The odds that a greater being would be so picky about so much just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Eudaimonist]

well, this has turned into quiite an interesting thread...

In the same way that disaster movies are interesting.

so, did anything specifically gear you away from religion? like some certain people?

I suppose that televangelists such as Pat Robertson were embarassing for Christianity, but ultimately it wasn't any particular people as such.

My deconversion came from asking philosophical and scientific questions that poked holes in the credibility of the Christian worldview. Essentially, it came from a quest to honestly understand the world as it really is, and not how I might desire it to be.

I have asked myself questions about my cherished beliefs such as: "would I be compelled to believe X on the quality of the evidence and arguments if I didn't want X to be true." It's amazing how well that works as a tool to keep one honest.

I will give credit to Ayn Rand for helping me have the courage to acknowledge my atheism. Before then, I would somewhat timidly only consider myself an agnostic. I suppose what I needed from her is to see an atheistic worldview as something potentially positive and inspiring, and not something shameful. This helped me shed some of the inhibitions against atheism I had picked up from Christianity.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Anubis1]

The question is why should I follow a faith when I don't need it from a 2000 year old book.

 

[gwenmead]

maybe this has been asked before but i'm just curious. why don't you believe in anything?

Why do you think atheists don't believe in anything?

Or was that just a somewhat awkward way of asking why we don't believe in god?

so, did anything specifically gear you away from religion? like some certain people?

I used to be a Christian. I was born again at the age of 16, and spent about a decade as a diehard believer. What got me out of it was a whole big fat combo platter of things, lined up in time like a row of dominoes falling.

Deconverting was a process. It involved events, people, theology, philosophy, thinking for myself, a whole host of things. It started with a single inconsistency, then nagging doubt, then a determination to settle my doubts for sure. Then it progressed to intense study of religion, mythology, philosophy, morality, and so on. There were people involved, some who helped and others who harmed.

But in the end, theism no longer made any sense to me at all, as anything other than a human construct created by people to serve human psychological needs. I have seen no convincing evidence that god exists outside of the human imagination. So I have suspended belief in god until convincing evidence shows up.

That's it, more or less.

 

[Julina]

People like HR were one of my first clues . . . .

How can the Holy Spirit exsist if two people are saying that the Holy Spirit has given them two contradictory messages? As evidenced with this thread!

THANK YOU HR for providing your evidence.

What are the implications of this dynamic?

Well, it is certain that at least one is wrong. So how can it be that at least one individual believes they are communicating with the Holy Spirit if they are not?

Answer: It's all in their head. (for at least one of them)

yeah. it is for a lot of them actually

 

[Julina]

Simply the fact that it doesn't appear to be true.

After a bit of study of other religions it becomes apparent that they are qualitatively the same as Chrisitianity. There is nothing to tell them apart.

Also from an atheistic viewpoint the world actually makes sense. It's quite a eureka moment for some. Questions that would have begun "Why God..." need no longer be asked.

how so?

 

[Julina]

I think enough people have finished with your first opening question, that I need not comment on it. Other atheists have answered it in the same way I would.

As for your second post...

I think there are people who have never needed to be steered away from religious thinking. Those who were not brought up in a religious family would never have been religious. So for them there would be no outside force to pull them away from religious mentality. It would be natural for them to have no thoughts of God(s)

As for myself, I was raised by my Mother. She was religious, and therefor I did know of God growing up. I was never made to goto church, or read scripture, but I was always reminded that Jesus, and God are real and they watch over us and this and that.... The problem with my Mother being the only religious influence on me as a child, was that I knew from an early age that my Mother was also.. Uh.. different. Not quite normal. I always knew that my Mother had mental problems, and so this helped me to question her religious views.

I actually started on my path to atheism when I was about 11 or 12 years of age. I began by actually praying on my knees in the middle of my room for my Mom. Asking that she be helped, and turned away from drugs. That she would be happy. It was only a matter of time before I started to realize, nothing was happening. Nothing was changing. I felt stupid sitting in the middle of my room talking to the ceiling every night. This is what lead to my realization. It took me awhile before I would outright say, "I do not believe in God." There was a little hesitation at first. Didn't know if I would be struck by lightning or hit by a car. lol

But after a couple years I became more sure of myself. After I learned a bit more of the workings of the world and the universe. School of course helped my understanding. By the time I hit highschool I was convinced of my decision. Of course my Mother was never fond of my conversion. It is only in the past couple years that she will even acknowledge that I'm atheist. Throughout my childhood, I was not allowed to really talk to her about it. Before then she would become furious and either kick me out of the house, disown me, or refuse to discuss it. To this day I really can't express my views in her house. Not that I would want to anymore. lol

So for me, no particular person really pushed me away from God. It was just me following what I felt made the most sense. My Mother brought me to religion, and as I became older I rejected it.

does she know you prayed about her and that it didn't work?

 

[Naturalist_Atheist]

does she know you prayed about her and that it didn't work?

Nope.

 

[Im_A]

maybe this has been asked before but i'm just curious. why don't you believe in anything?

for me it's about being intellectually honest to myself.

its hard to put it exactly for me because, there are many levels as to why i do not believe in gods or a God ranging from philosophical, scientific, personal. as a friend of mine here positioned his change into atheism, it was a paradigm shift. a realization that one must be intellectually honest with themselves for all the reasons that they have and face it and accept it.

i see no reason to believe in any kind of gods or God in this world. everything can be explained away from the idea of a God concept, and if the God concept is infallible then it wouldn't fall apart, or it would be able to be full-proof. the way we as human beings have evolved from ancient mindsets is a big influence to me, as i think it should be for everyone. every religion seems based upon the same reasoning that every myth that has come about in humanity's existence, and for the same reasons that i disbelieve in Thor, i disbelieve in Yahweh. the progression that religion has taken upon itself seems nothing more than finding a reason to still believe when one can't. and i feel that is lieing to a very important person, oneself.

so i do apologize to you for not being able to give one answer. for me its impossible to give just one answer. there are so many levels as to why i disbelieve and we'd have to talk on those levels specifically, so until then, the conclusion really is about being intellectually honest to myself.

 

[Im_A]

so, did anything specifically gear you away from religion? like some certain people?

i believe personally that living life has geared me away from religion and the God-concept.

but where i'll always be grateful to is the Liberal form of Christianity. While i'm not a liberal Christian anymore, it was people like Paul Tillich, Marcus Borg, John Shelby Spong, Brian McLaren's, who's books really struck a deep chord in me and my beliefs at the time, and gave me the ability to finally, be honest with myself. especially chapter 2 of John Shelby Spong's book, "Why Christianity Must Change or Die." and Marcus Borg's book, "The Heart of Christianity" was another compelling book for me to finally be honest to myself.

so while i'm at a different conclusion than they are, and i don't say, "they led me to atheism" i credit them and their works for helping a confused believer at the time, to finally man up to himself about what he views because the questions they propose were things i felt, and so compelling and realistic. i'll always have an admiration towards to the liberal side of Christianity because of this.

 

[Morcova]

Originally Posted by Julina

well, this has turned into quiite an interesting thread...

so, did anything specifically gear you away from religion? like some certain people?
​

The only thing that geared me away from the bible was reading with with an open mind.

No, no people turned me away from my faith. When I saw a christian doing something bad I didn't think to myself...."How could there be a god is this christian does (whatever)?" I just remember that we are all human and we all have failings.

Hmmm, perhaps this is a message that HR could learn something from?

 

[uberd00b]

how so?

I'm not sure to which point you're asking your question so I'll answer for each (they sort of follow sequentially anyway).

God has many characteristics it shares with things that don't exist, invisible, untouchable, unevidenced etc.

All (most) religions have this characteristic, with their various gods requiring faith because there is nothing to suggest they exist. In this way these religions are qualitatively the same. There is no real way to tell them apart, the followers of one religion believe just as strongly that they are correct as the followers of another religion. There is nothing to separate them. As they are of equal validity they can either be all true (which seems impossible) or all false.

The realisation that religions are false and that gods don't exist puts the universe in a perspective that makes sense. Where once you would have to wonder about the millions of dying/dead AIDS babies (for example), and put it down to one of "God's mysteries" now there is no longer any mystery. The realisation we live in a cold impersonal uncaring universe puts suffering into perspective. We can explain the problem of evil in one sentence, rather than the thousands of pages of theological essays that have attempted to make some sense of it.

Hope that made sense.

 

[Arnaud]

I assume by "anything" you mean "gods"?

I simply don't believe in gods because there's absolutely no reason to believe in them. Not a single shred of objective evidence points towards the existence of any gods. To me, they're probably concepts invented by human due to our natural fear of the unknown.

However, if any - and I mean any - objective proof appeared that supported the existence of one of the thousands of gods then I'd most likely convert on the spot.

 

[Nooj]

well, this has turned into quiite an interesting thread...

It's a shame that your thread has been hijacked by HR.

so, did anything specifically gear you away from religion? like some certain people?

If there was anything specific that geared me away from religion, it was the non-relevance and absence of God in my life. I remember praying to God, but that was when I was like eight years old. Beyond going through the motions of church and praying when my parents told me to, there was no belief that God was there. I came to realise that God wasn't really absent, rather it was only me around. I either dropped out of being a Christian early when I was a kid, or I was an atheist the whole time.

People had nothing to do with it, and continues to have nothing to do with it. Most Christians I know are good people.

 

[Julina]

to clear some things up:
when i said "anything" i meant God/gods

and the reason i ask if certain people geared you away from religion it's because i know there are many out there who give their religion a bad name.

so it seems like most atheists just "realized" that they didn't believe. is this ever by accident? or on purpose? for example, did something happen to make you not believe, or were you born into atheism?

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

 

[Bombila]

to clear some things up:
when i said "anything" i meant God/gods

and the reason i ask if certain people geared you away from religion it's because i know there are many out there who give their religion a bad name.

so it seems like most atheists just "realized" that they didn't believe. is this ever by accident? or on purpose? for example, did something happen to make you not believe, or were you born into atheism?

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

No big event caused my unbelief. I did have what some would call a 'crisis of faith', where I desperately tried to convince myself God was real and did a whole lot of praying and philosophizing and emoting for a few months. This was in my early twenties. It was entirely self induced and internally battled, and not anything said or done by anyone religious or otherwise. I might have called myself (if I'd known the term) an agnostic theist for a while thereafter. Then I lost three very good friends in rapid succession, one to Jesus, one to the Divine Light Mission, and one to a Zen monastery. I wpould say around then my views solidified to agnostic atheism and nothing has changed my mind in over thirty years.

The only place I argue over theism/atheism is online. Proselytizers are few in Canada, and those few are likely to be one's neighbours, who one likes to get along with. In fact, there are two tiny local churches that I support in terms of donations to bake sales and flea markets, and playing and singing at variety shows. We are rural, most of the church members are elderly and the churches (which are financially challenged to put it mildly) are important to them. I consider it part of my participation in the community to help when I can, since they do provide some good community services as well.

Religion still interests me - in a way I'm still looking for answers as to why I lost those friends, who were interesting, talented, intelligent people before they 'faithed up'. A lot of the theists (not all) on CF seem to represent (or have fallen for) what I think of as politicized religion, which seems to want to impose some form of theocratic rule under the guise of 'it's good for you and it's right', disregarding or impeding personal freedom, womens' rights, and the progress of science. This phenomenon is almost entirely confined, on this continent, to the USA, but I've seen tendrils of it leaking into Canada, and very much don't want any of it in my country.

And no, I never try to convince anyone to be an atheist. That's an entirely personal matter for each of us. I don't consider pointing out some of the absurdities of various beliefs to be proselytising for atheism. To me it's a matter of being one of those who notices what the Emperor is not wearing, and thinking others may as well know what I'm seeing.

 

[Arnaud]

to clear some things up:
when i said "anything" i meant God/gods

and the reason i ask if certain people geared you away from religion it's because i know there are many out there who give their religion a bad name.

so it seems like most atheists just "realized" that they didn't believe. is this ever by accident? or on purpose? for example, did something happen to make you not believe, or were you born into atheism?

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

Well, disbelief was a gradual process for me.

My mother is a strong atheist and my dad is a non-practicing Catholic; none of them ever mentioned their religious stances to me until I asked. I was first introduced to religion in the United States at around the age of nine when my neighbors invited me to go to Church when them. The first day there, I was shown what Hell was. Fear and naivety got me believing in Catholicism.

Although I believed in what the Catholics believed, I didn't practice at all. I tried praying a few times, with no result. But my religious friends kept my doubts down and I continued to occasionally go to church with them. At the age of 11, I moved out of the United States and into Belgium.

In Belgium, I went to an international school; I found out that there was a whole multitude of religious beliefs. No one really talked about their beliefs there. There, I started to stir more towards agnosticism. I realized that Catholicism was just one of the many beliefs and had no more evidence than any other religion.

Eventually, when I was 14 I was taught Evolution in Biology class. The subject really interested me and actually made coherent sense. Although I didn't completely abandon the concept of a god, I starting doubting that there was one. That year, I talked about it with my parents and my mom told me she was an atheist. I looked into atheism.

In 10th grade, I discovered atheism forums and started to read up on the subject. I started to read up the arguments against a theistic stance and asked my dad to buy me Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion. After I finished reading it, I knew that atheism was the most logical stance.

I'm now in 11th grade and it seems pretty obvious that religion is simply a man-made concept. However, I don't try to enforce my idea upon others. I simply explain my position whenever the topic is brought up. If the theist wishes to debate, I'm all for it.

 

[IndomitableAmy]

to clear some things up:
when i said "anything" i meant God/gods

and the reason i ask if certain people geared you away from religion it's because i know there are many out there who give their religion a bad name.

Yes, there are such people in every group, I suppose. But I don't think hypocrites are enough to turn one away from religion.. At least it wouldn't make much sense. Example:

I believe there is a God and he believes there is a God, but he acts poorly, so there must not be a God.

Possibly one might not stick with that particular group, believing they have a reputation one doesn't want to get by association.. but I suppose there's a long stretch between there and disbelief.

so it seems like most atheists just "realized" that they didn't believe. is this ever by accident? or on purpose? for example, did something happen to make you not believe, or were you born into atheism?

I was raise in Christianity, if that's what you mean. And I was one who "just realized". You can judge for yourself whether it was "by accident". I.. I suppose I realized it intentionally, but only in that I allowed myself to think about it and to be true to however I am at the time instead of trying to be how I was before.. (If there is any great difference, it is unwise, I think, to try to be how one used to be.. moments pass, never to return.) However, what I realized had been there before I allowed myself the liberty of self-acceptance and I knew before I had the courage to name the change. But the change itself.. that was not by my conscious design. I didn't decide to be an atheist, decide not to believe in a god. I wouldn't say it's by accident, though.. the change itself is nothing I did. It just is. *shrug*

Do you have any thoughts on account of my story?

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

No on both counts.

I try to discourage sloppy thinking by discouraging sloppy expression.. if only so I can understand.

I like to know and understand people's beliefs. It helps me understand what they mean, where they're coming from, and, to some extent, people in general. I've found that plenty of people actually don't understand their own beliefs, not enough to explain them simply to a relative outsider. (I don't hold much respect for those who can't explain and won't admit it..) If my asking questions gets them to understand their beliefs and the implications thereof better, then I think that's an inherently good thing. Whether it strengthens their beliefs or causes them to rethink their beliefs doesn't matter to me.. I just think it's good if they've really thought about it.

 

[gwenmead]

to clear some things up:
when i said "anything" i meant God/gods

Yeah, I kind of guessed this. I was just wondering, because a lot of times the question is phrased the way you initially phrased it, but the person really does think that atheists believe in nothing at all. So just checking there...

and the reason i ask if certain people geared you away from religion it's because i know there are many out there who give their religion a bad name.

True that.

The way I see it now, if a religion is true, it's true regardless of how its followers behave. For me the issue of the behavior of a given faith's adherents is more a reflection of the moral integrity of the religion as a whole, and of its individual followers. A religion which justifies cruelty to others, for instance, is a religion I might reject on moral grounds, even if it were demonstrated to be true otherwise.

I can't exactly say that it was the bad behavior of a Christian which drove me out of Christianity, but it was the bad behavior of a Christian which led to my no longer fearing hell, as I realized that if being Christian meant I had to be like them, hell was preferable.

Losing a fear of hell was crucial to allowing myself to ask questions and address issues I had previously been afraid to approach.

so it seems like most atheists just "realized" that they didn't believe. is this ever by accident? or on purpose? for example, did something happen to make you not believe, or were you born into atheism?

Well fwiw I don't think everybody is born with theism pre-installed, so I think everyone starts life technically an atheist - a blank slate, as it were. But most folks do end up adopting a religion at some point, learning it from family or culture.

For my own deconversion, the point at which I started labeling myself an atheist came after a very long process. A lot of it was under my control, a lot of it wasn't. A lot of it was conscious and deliberate, a lot of it wasn't.

It was a conscious, deliberate choice to examine my faith with the utmost scrutiny, since I believed that a faith that crumbled under such examination wasn't worth keeping. It was my choice to continue with such scrutiny even when it was painful. So that was conscious and voluntary.

But sometimes shifts in my thinking came unexpectedly. When I finally realized I was an atheist, it was after a confrontation with a rather unpleasant poster here. I looked at their words and realized that they were convinced that their god was just like them, and vice versa - and then it struck me that said poster was really no different than any other theist, even myself when I was a believer. So many people claim to know the mind of god, yet fail to realize that their claims are simply a mirror of their own desires.

That was sort of the camel straw. But I didn't get there in one moment, and I didn't get there because of any one thing or person or issue, and I don't remain an atheist because of any one thing, either. Although if I had to boil it down, I'd probably say that religion just doesn't make any sense to me anymore, and I have yet to be presented with any convincing evidence that a god or gods exist.

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

It depends.

I carry my opinions with me like anyone else does, and they come out in discussions or debates, or on internet forums, or in my blogs or conversations. It will always be obvious that I am an atheist, and that my viewpoint stands in opposition to theism.

But I'm not that much of a proselytizer, and never was. Someone has to bring the fight to me, so to speak, before I'd try anything remotely like deconverting someone. I mean if someone's going to change their mind all I can offer is information and perhaps relate my own thoughts and experience anyway; otherwise it isn't my job to deprive others of their personal beliefs. I mean really, who the heck am I??

I'm much more concerned with the places where religious morality intersects with the health and well-being of myself and the culture I live in. That isn't an issue of deconversion, but a matter of figuring out where the boundaries between, say, church and state should be drawn.

Dunno if any of this helps or makes sense, but thank you for reading.

 

[Julina]

Well, disbelief was a gradual process for me.

My mother is a strong atheist and my dad is a non-practicing Catholic; none of them ever mentioned their religious stances to me until I asked. I was first introduced to religion in the United States at around the age of nine when my neighbors invited me to go to Church when them. The first day there, I was shown what Hell was. Fear and naivety got me believing in Catholicism.

Although I believed in what the Catholics believed, I didn't practice at all. I tried praying a few times, with no result. But my religious friends kept my doubts down and I continued to occasionally go to church with them. At the age of 11, I moved out of the United States and into Belgium.

In Belgium, I went to an international school; I found out that there was a whole multitude of religious beliefs. No one really talked about their beliefs there. There, I started to stir more towards agnosticism. I realized that Catholicism was just one of the many beliefs and had no more evidence than any other religion.

Eventually, when I was 14 I was taught Evolution in Biology class. The subject really interested me and actually made coherent sense. Although I didn't completely abandon the concept of a god, I starting doubting that there was one. That year, I talked about it with my parents and my mom told me she was an atheist. I looked into atheism.

In 10th grade, I discovered atheism forums and started to read up on the subject. I started to read up the arguments against a theistic stance and asked my dad to buy me Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion. After I finished reading it, I knew that atheism was the most logical stance.

I'm now in 11th grade and it seems pretty obvious that religion is simply a man-made concept. However, I don't try to enforce my idea upon others. I simply explain my position whenever the topic is brought up. If the theist wishes to debate, I'm all for it.

you don't have to be atheist to believe in evolution