Why are you here?

[Polycarp_fan]

Thanks for that

I've been involved with debating anti's and non's for many years now. My position is always to show my fellow Christians that we are not the idiots we are charged as being.

I like it when I'm sent a response of support for my style and someone wants to use my material. It's not really a good Christian behavior, I can't kid anybody there that it can be supported that easily from scripture, but sometimes you have to put a rock in the sling and take aim at the giant and let it fly straight and true.

It's hard to step out of the flesh I've worn my entire life. And many people deserve to told what they are. They know it anyway, but bullies and liars need confrontation.

But on the other side of the coin, oh boy!

 

[PhilosophicalBluster]

God's truth is absolute. It doesn't need one or everyone to cosign.

It would take an infinite amount of knowledge to know for sure whether there is a G-d, what s/he does, how s/he works, etcetera. Your knowledge is far from infinite, as is the knowledge of everybody else.

But if there are so many other people who claim to have heard 'G-d's truth' and disagree with you, how can you possibly know within your limited pool of knowledge that you alone are correct? How can anybody? To assume that you are the only one with the 'real' truth is quite honestly absurd, yet you assume so anyway.

Sound's like somebody has a big ego...

 

[PantsMcFist]

I applaud PCF for this thread. Anything which attempts to build a consensus of understanding is a worthwhile endeavor. On the other hand, Zaac's attitude is atrocious.

I came here for several reasons. Firstly, I wanted to discuss various views of life, how to live it, and spirituality. I also want to challenge people as often as possible about how they think, and open there eyes to alternative possibilities in terms of cognitive frameworks.

Secondly, I came looking for direction. I rejected the Evangelical church, and Protestantism in general a long time ago, and since then, my views have been bouncing around deism, theism, and Native spirituality. I know I will come back to a faithing community one day, but I have more questions in need of answers first. I have reconciled the fact that I will never find something I don't question. I find fewer things more spiritual than music, and nature, so I will probably worship dually in Eastern Orthodoxy and as a member of a Native community.

Thirdly, I loathe the radical individualism which has lead to the social schisms of postmodern day living. I am trying to live as a voice for collective living, and as a demonstration of it. There are few philosophies which have done more damage to the integrity of humanity than individualism.

Now, a word to Zaac. You are a very poor prophet. You do not take your example from the disciples, and are not a mouthpiece of God. The points you make are found solely in the theodices and legitimations of modern fundamentalism. The disciples argued convincingly with Greek sophists, using only the logic available to all humans. You rely wholly on arguments from knowledge that exists within your interpretation of scripture, and this belies the emptiness of your words. If you cannot form an argument for your faith with the logic available universally, you are no follower of any sort of Apostolic tradition.

As far the the example of Christ goes, and ethics and moral behavior - I refuse to take solid black and white stances, because I have no authority to do so on most issues. All I can say is when it comes to following Christ, if your beliefs lead to a lot of finger pointing, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I applaud PCF for this thread. Anything which attempts to build a consensus of understanding is a worthwhile endeavor.

Well thanks, but I'm not the nicest Christian you'll ever interact with. I just realize reality. The reality is, that Christians are going to have many enemies and struggles. Just keep strong in the faith and fellowship.

On the other hand, Zaac's attitude is atrocious.

And you need this here why?

I came here for several reasons. Firstly, I wanted to discuss various views of life, how to live it, and spirituality. I also want to challenge people as often as possible about how they think, and open there eyes to alternative possibilities in terms of cognitive frameworks.

There is no "alternative" to Christ Jesus. Only rejection of Him.

Secondly, I came looking for direction. I rejected the Evangelical church, and Protestantism in general a long time ago, and since then, my views have been bouncing around deism, theism, and Native spirituality.

I would advise studying yourself. Start with C.S. Lewis Mere Christianity if you are intelligent. Christianity can be the simplest or most complicated life. If you are searching, then Jesus will make you work to find Him only two ways. Faith or study.

I know I will come back to a faithing community one day, but I have more questions in need of answers first.

You sound like a Christian still. We are challenged by our Savior to keep questioning things. Especially other people.

I have reconciled the fact that I will never find something I don't question.

Now you sound like a Disciple.

I find fewer things more spiritual than music, and nature, so I will probably worship dually in Eastern Orthodoxy and as a member of a Native community.

You're my kind of guy. All the stars sung at the moment of creation. And they are still singing now. God inhabits the praises of His people. Go with music to guide you to Christ Jesus without fail.

Thirdly, I loathe the radical individualism which has lead to the social schisms of postmodern day living. I am trying to live as a voice for collective living, and as a demonstration of it. There are few philosophies which have done more damage to the integrity of humanity than individualism.

I'll be quiet and be nice. But I'm looking to my left when I write this.

Now, a word to Zaac. You are a very poor prophet. You do not take your example from the disciples, and are not a mouthpiece of God.

Are you sure you mean Zaac? This is the charge I get ceaselessly from my opposition.

The points you make are found solely in the theodices and legitimations of modern fundamentalism.

Modern fundamentalism? There are fundamentals that make a person a Christian or not a Christian. It's been that way since the conception of Elizabeth with John.

The disciples argued convincingly with Greek sophists, using only the logic available to all humans.

They used fundamentalism.

You rely wholly on arguments from knowledge that exists within your interpretation of scripture, and this belies the emptiness of your words.

You're talking to Zaac?

If you cannot form an argument for your faith with the logic available universally, you are no follower of any sort of Apostolic tradition.

Ooooo, good point. But ALL of the Apostles were fundamentalist Christians, after the label stuck in Antioch.

As far the the example of Christ goes, and ethics and moral behavior - I refuse to take solid black and white stances, because I have no authority to do so on most issues.

Jesus took a black and white stance. As did every single Apsotle and Disciple.

All I can say is when it comes to following Christ, if your beliefs lead to a lot of finger pointing, you're doing it wrong.

Jesus did much fingerpointing. He taught us how to do ot too.

Don't quote Freddy. He died as he lived, insane.

 

[PantsMcFist]

There is no "alternative" to Christ Jesus. Only rejection of Him.

I think that following Christ is the most important, not praying the right prayer. If people are living earnest, genuine example of Christ outside of the Institutional Church, they are no less saved than anyone inside the Church through my eyes. In that way, alternatives are alternative belief systems which yield the same result.

I would advise studying yourself. Start with C.S. Lewis Mere Christianity if you are intelligent. Christianity can be the simplest or most complicated life. If you are searching, then Jesus will make you work to find Him only two ways. Faith or study.

I started with CS Lewis, and moved outwards from there. I especially like much of Nietzsche's insights about Christianity. We can learn the most from our detractors.

You sound like a Christian still. We are challenged by our Savior to keep questioning things. Especially other people.

I am and I'm not. I believe many things which are not Christian doctrine, and there are many Christian doctrines which I do not believe. For now I haven't landed on one label I like, so I try to define what I believe and let people place those beliefs where they may.

I'll be quiet and be nice. But I'm looking to my left when I write this.

I know I get lumped in with many people in categories where I may or may not belong, but that doesn't concern me a lot. Every ideology will have people that give it a bad name, whether they mean to or not. I'm looking to Stalin, Mao, and Castro as I write this.

Are you sure you mean Zaac? This is the charge I get ceaselessly from my opposition.

You stand by ideals which I do not believe are correct, but are not as polemic, and much more intellectually honest in your statements. I respect that.

Modern fundamentalism? There are fundamentals that make a person a Christian or not a Christian. It's been that way since the conception of Elizabeth with John.

They used fundamentalism.

I should have clearly defined the modern theocratic evangelical movement better. But I stand by my charges.

Ooooo, good point. But ALL of the Apostles were fundamentalist Christians, after the label stuck in Antioch.

Jesus took a black and white stance. As did every single Apsotle and Disciple.
Jesus did much fingerpointing. He taught us how to do ot too.

Jesus did much more than fingerpointing though - if all your faith leads to is fingerpointing, you're not exactly a follower of Christ.

Don't quote Freddy. He died as he lived, insane.

Insane he may have been, but his writings are remarkably lucid, and well worth considering. Many schizophrenics, though there hold on reality is loosened, have very insightful comments about the hidden hypocrisies of life. Wisdom need not be packaged well, we should recognize it for what it is.

 

[FlamingFemme]

I am a frequent visitor to fstdt.com. I joined here because I saw a statement from a member on fstdt, and felt the need to respond to it. As a spiritual person who also happens to be queer, I also think it's necessary for individuals like myself to respond to lies and hateful speech spouted by those who take the bible literally, for the benefit of those who may be lurking.

 

[Belk]

WHY, are you here?

Why ARE you here?

Why are YOU here?

Why are you HERE?

Why are you here?

It was a strange journey to get here. It started when i first heard of the Evolution/ID debate and decided to find out if ID had any validity. I joined ARN (A pro ID site) and I hung out there for a year or so. At some point someone posted a link to FSTDT which lead me here.

Mostly I am just here for the entertainment. I like to think that I add a valid point every once in a while and I have learned many things. I just find it enjoyable here and feel a sense of camaraderie with many of the posters.

 

[Sojourner1]

I consider myself a Christian, yes.

Are you a Fundamentalist Christian?

I think people have a lot of preconceived ideas of what Christian Fundamentalism is. There are some Christian Fundamentalists who have gone overboard in their legalism and their interaction with society (for example the moral majority type movements or the very extreme militant movement like Westboro Baptist) and have given Christian Fundamentalism a bad name. There are a lot Christians who have fundamental beliefs who are nothing like those people who have given fundamentalism a bad name. The basic beliefs that make a Christian a fundamentalist are:

Today, the self-described Fundamentalist Christian is quite different from the popular conception. While the common idea of a fundamentalist strongly implies political activism, the self-described Fundamentalist is rarely involved directly in politics (Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Tim LaHaye are notable exceptions). He holds to traditional conceptions of morality and sin, and believes that the truth and authority of Scripture are completely sufficient to furnish him with a perfect guide through life. He looks for the return of Christ, not the reform of the world.

Within the United States, fundamentalism was originally a movement beginning in the late 19th century of Christian evangelical conservatives, who, in a reaction to modernism, insisted on adhering to a set of core beliefs. Fundamentalists, in this sense, have engaged in criticism of more liberal movements. The original formulation of American fundamentalist beliefs can be traced to the Niagara Bible Conference in 1878. In 1910, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church distilled these into what were known as the "five fundamentals", which were:

1. Inerrancy of the Scriptures
2. The virgin birth and deity of Jesus
3. The doctrine of substitutionary atonement
4. The bodily resurrection of Jesus
5. The bodily second coming of Jesus Christ

There is much more to this article here.

 

[PantsMcFist]

1. Inerrancy of the Scriptures
2. The virgin birth and deity of Jesus
3. The doctrine of substitutionary atonement
4. The bodily resurrection of Jesus
5. The bodily second coming of Jesus Christ

See, this is were I miss a beat. I don't believe in the inerrancy of scriptures, especially considering how they were constructed. Special revelation, yes. Inerrant - not since humans wrote them down. Virgin birth - nope. This doctrine hinges wholly on the idea that sin is passed on sexually, and does not involve a conscious choice. Substitutionary atonement - yes and no. I think many people that have never heard of Christ are saved.

What if the second coming coincides with the reforming of the world? What if the two are mutually contingent?

 

[cantata]

To show that some people are just wrong about Christian reality and some people are very malicious, malevolent and hurtful.

Shall we have a whip-round and buy you a medal?

 

[Sojourner1]

See, this is were I miss a beat. I don't believe in the inerrancy of scriptures, especially considering how they were constructed. Special revelation, yes. Inerrant - not since humans wrote them down. Virgin birth - nope. This doctrine hinges wholly on the idea that sin is passed on sexually, and does not involve a conscious choice. Substitutionary atonement - yes and no. I think many people that have never heard of Christ are saved.

What if the second coming coincides with the reforming of the world? What if the two are mutually contingent?

The inerrancy of Scripture would be the key to believing the next four points. If you believe in the inerrancy of Scripture then you would believe that all that is written in the Bible is true. Since the Scripture says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he died to atone for our sins, that he was resurrected from the grave, and that he will return again a second time, then you would believe it to be true. If you don't believe in the inerrancy of Scripture then you are free to pick and chose what you believe to be true.

I'm not sure what you mean by the reforming of the world? How is this world going to be reformed and how will we know when that reformation takes place?

 

[TheBear]

Why are you here?

I'm here on the Atheist Agenda/anti-Christian plan, where anything I say should be construed as bashing Christians.

Other than that, I'm here to discuss, to debate, to learn new things, and more.


Why are you here?

 

[PantsMcFist]

The inerrancy of Scripture would be the key to believing the next four points. If you believe in the inerrancy of Scripture then you would believe that all that is written in the Bible is true. Since the Scripture says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he died to atone for our sins, that he was resurrected from the grave, and that he will return again a second time, then you would believe it to be true. If you don't believe in the inerrancy of Scripture then you are free to pick and chose what you believe to be true.

I'm not sure what you mean by the reforming of the world? How is this world going to be reformed and how will we know when that reformation takes place?

My strongest disagreements are the inerrancy and virginity parts. I have no faith that the bible is ALL the special revelation sent to humanity, and that it is ALL correct. Specifically because of the virginity aspect.

To me, that seems like it was added as part of an effort to lump as many myths and prophecies of the region into Jesus' legacy as possible. I mean, she could have been a virgin, but to me, that's not important. The whole construction of Marian theology is frightening, and a lot of canon ought to be reconsidered. What we REALLY need is a Christian version of the Talmud - with scholarly interpretations and cultural context so the text retains more of it's intended meaning from generation to generation.

 

[morningstar2651]

I'm an operative of the Atheistic Liberal News Media (DRINK!), secretly infiltrating Christian Forums to subvert the traditional family structure by voting for Obama, thereby causing the downfall of Western civilization.

Okay, so my real story isn't as cool sounding as that. I was looking for a forum to discuss, debate, & learn more about Christianity. I got banned from Christianity.com for disagreeing with a moderator in a debate. So, I googled "Christian Forum" looking for a place where the moderators didn't ban people that disagreed with them. CF was the first result.

I stuck around because I like the community. I became a moderator for the same reason.

 

[levi501]

To pwn the irrational, biggotted and hypocritical.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Christ sums it up with the two greatest commandments which encompass obedience to all of His commands.

See I think that following those two Commandments (love God and love thy neighbor as thyself) is what makes someone a Christian. I think that trying to act like Jesus, the Christ, did during His lifetime is one makes one Christ-like.

 

[lisah]

To pwn the irrational, biggotted and hypocritical.

How is that rational?

 

[sidhe]

I'm also here to further my agenda.

My agenda is to waste time when things are slow at work.

Most honestly, though, I have no idea anymore. I came here four years ago interested in Christianity. Four years later, I have no issues with Christianity, but would prefer to not be poked with a stick. In return, I won't poke with sticks.

Currently, I'm enjoying posting things that I find funny.

 

[tcampen]

I'm a Christian who holds firmly to the word of God.

Right.

And all the other Christians who also hold firmly to the word of God, but disagree with YOU, are really just disagreeing with God, and not YOU at all.

Right.

We've been down this road with you many times before. If you have something of actual substance to say, please share it. But to continue to assert your view is objective reality, but only use your subjective perceptions as evidence is getting old.

 

[JustMeSee]

I am assuming that you are asking why I am here on E&M.

I came here to share and read differing points of views on ethical and moral issues.

As my icon shows, I am seeking answers and direction for myself (personally and spiritually). By reading the thoughts and beliefs of others, it helps me to focus on my path.