Why are women not allowed to be ministers in some churches?

[Albion]

I have a question for you: Rather than people of the 1st century AD being closer to Christ's intentions, Is it possible that Christ spoke to people, and behaved with people, in a manner that was consistent with the contemporary society of that time - and if that's possible, is it reasonable to argue that he would speak and interact with us today in a way that was contemporary as well...ie consistent with the norms and ideals and prevailing issues of the 21st century.

No. If Christ was God, it is impossible that he taught values that he did not approve of simply because he was also human. It is also impossible to argue that he HAD TO go along with the social mores of his (Hebrew) people of that era, merely because otherwise he would be too controversial or unpopular -- yet I have heard that one argued by some folks as well.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I have a question for you: Rather than people of the 1st century AD being closer to Christ's intentions, Is it possible that Christ spoke to people, and behaved with people, in a manner that was consistent with the contemporary society of that time - and if that's possible, is it reasonable to argue that he would speak and interact with us today in a way that was contemporary as well...ie consistent with the norms and ideals and prevailing issues of the 21st century.

Christ's consistancy was in effect to what came before. Namely the twelve tribes of Israel to which the 12 apostles were appointed to judge. The churches job is to judge the angels. iirc

 

[Zoii]

No. If Christ was God, it is impossible that he taught values that he did not approve of simply because he was also human. It is also impossible to argue that he HAD TO go along with the social mores of his (Hebrew) people of that era, merely because otherwise he would be too controversial or unpopular -- yet I have heard that one argued by some folks as well.

He was controversial and he was unpopular certainly with the older establishment - and was executed for it. He challenged the status quo of older thinking and basically said - thats old hat n nonsense. Large chunks in Deut and Lev were overturned by Jesus saying why on earth do we need to do this these days. Eg wearing mixed cloth. I argue that Jesus was from a new generation that challenged older generations thinking. While many here, as you do , believe if he was born today he'd behave in the same way. I dont. I'm pretty sure he'd stand up to the older generations way of thinking and say, just as he did back then, "things have changed"

So I'm following Jesus' lead - things HAVE changed. This thread and many posters may say "Hey u girls cant lead n u girls cant be ministers". My response is similar to Jesus'; things have changed and women ARE pastors/ministers, and will change further whether anyone here agrees with it or not; AND I believe thats exactly what Jesus was trying to tell us and its only us humans who twist things back to conservative "things arent allowed to change" mindsets.

 

[Zoii]

Christ's consistancy was in effect to what came before. Namely the twelve tribes of Israel to which the 12 apostles were appointed to judge. The churches job is to judge the angels. iirc

I dont understand what you wrote - can you perhaps re-express it?

 

[JackRT]

When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I dont understand what you wrote - can you perhaps re-express it?

The original 12 apostles are unique in judging the Jewish religion.

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the restoration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

While the church has the responsibility of judging angels as well as the nations.

Revelation 2:26
And he who overcomes and he who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations;

1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we will judge angels, not to mention things of this life?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today.

Its influence can also be benevolent.

 

[Paidiske]

Its influence can also be benevolent.

Only in a way that infantilises some of the people who benefit from the "benevolence."

Yeah, in some ways it means being "cared for," provided for, etc. But it reduces those women to the status of an eternal child, never taking on the responsibilities and fulfilling the potential of a fully contributing adult.

 

[Albion]

He was controversial and he was unpopular certainly with the older establishment - and was executed for it.

Exactly. So the argument that he was constrained by conventional mores that no longer apply in our own culture doesn't hold up.

 

[Zoii]

Exactly. So the argument that he was constrained by conventional mores that no longer apply in our own culture doesn't hold up.

Which was my point. So your agreeing with me? It's what I've been saying that although we state things have to be as they were a few thousand years ago, I doubt he'd agree just as he did when he threw out some of old testament traditions. I'm arguing he'd do you he same with outdated views on women

 

[Boogaloo]

Unbiblical? The Bible doesn't call people to preach. God does. And sexism is a sin and against Pauls decree in Galatians concerning the oneness in Christ.


No, it isn't unbiblical. Galatians 3 shoots that argument right out of the water. Anyone that would like to insist on that line of falsity would be calling Paul either a liar when he wrote to the churches in Galatia, or deluded.
Why were women to be quiet in the churches in Corinth? Why would Paul write a totally different letter to the churches in Galatia about women? Because he wasn't talking about the woman's capacity to be called by God to preach.
In 1 Corinthians 14 and verses 27-35, Paul tells a number of people how to behave in church. His letters were a matter of restoring order and maintaining decorum during the service. Not saying women cannot preach. If it were true that women are to keep quiet in church there would not be a woman in the choir. Nor in any office that serves in the church. Because she would then be not quiet in her service to and within the church.

The Bible does call people to preach:
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

These are but a few verses and to say that these verses that are written in the Bible does not tell you to preach but God does is blasphemy as the Bible is the word of God.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

This then surely tells us that what is God breathed is from God because it is not man breathed and for that I thank God.

So the Bible does call people to preach because it is impossible to separate God from His word and that is the truth!