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Why are we afraid to be bold?

Chaplain David

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Very good. However, you can love people right into hell by your tacit approval of their sin. Be very careful of that.

Most of the people here are defending their sin. If you had been defending your sin in your church as a new believer, I highly doubt your sisters, brothers and leaders would be patting you on the back! No, you would be taken to task, to the Word of God, and shown explicitly where you had gone wrong.

There is no defense for sin! We, who know Jesus Christ, have the better way, and we need to be telling them over and over and over. The trouble is, these folk don't want to be told...they want to TELL YOU! They LOVE THEIR SIN and have no intention of giving it up. So, instead of risking them mocking you, you dummy down Jesus' message.

Many of us here will not do that. Hard core doesn't respond to soft sell.

We have one offensive weapon: God's Love.

Your efforts would be better spent preaching to those who need it. Whatever thoughts you have that tell you that I need to preached to by you are inaccurate. I don't even disagree with you most of the time on scriptural matters. But your rebuttals of my words essentially saying, inferring or hinting at that I don't know what I'm doing or know scripture or somehow don't understand it is getting irritating because it is not true. So please redirect your concentration and comments away from me and on to the OP and people that truly need assistance in the thread. I thank you in advance for your cooperation.
 
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Floatingaxe

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Your efforts would be better spent preaching to those who need it. Whatever thoughts you have that tell you that I need to preached to by you are inaccurate. I don't even disagree with you most of the time on scriptural matters. But your rebuttals of my words essentially saying, inferring or hinting at that I don't know what I'm doing or know scripture or somehow don't understand it is getting irritating because it is not true. So please redirect your concentration and comments away from me and on to the OP and people that truly need assistance in the thread. I thank you in advance for your cooperation.


Rebuttals are par for the course. Get used to it. I have, and I DO know scripture.
 
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Miracle Storm

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Thread Cleaned

Stick to the topic.

Members here are NOT the topic, if you make them the topic you may be violated for harassment.

NO FLAMING

As stated in the rules.
Play nice, use the brain God gave you and think before you post and how what you're saying may affect someone else...

.
 
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BAFRIEND

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I recently read an article in the Sacramento News & Review (SN&R). It had a column dedicated to Reverends talking about the affects of orientation. I knew that it wouldn't be something against but for so I was intrigued - pastors who are openly apathetic to homosexuality are rare (no one is PRO-GAY because that asserts difference, no less insulting than asserting yourself pro-Deaf. Neither are appropriate because it categorizes the behavior as something that can be decided. It's always Pro-Gay Rights and Pro-Deaf Rights. Pro-Gay Rights people don't care about homosexuality as an orientation, it doesn't bother them or appear obvious in a crowd).

Reverend Dr. David Thompson, quotes himself as actually saying, straight out, with no sugar coatings, that St. Paul is wrong in Romans. Wow. Drop the jaw. It's not that I disagree with the Reverend, I'm skeptical about Paul's letters just as much as he is, but I never outright say it. I just say "Well it could be..." and make it as pretty and "non-offensive" as possible (Christian political correctness you might say). He says that because homosexuality is so deeply biologically and psychologically rooted, the idea that God would make something unpreventable wrong is preposterous.

So, those who believe homosexuals aren't sinning, why are we this bold? I don't mean blabbing on and on about how the other side is wrong. That's not being bold that's actually being rather dumb. But our voice is very quiet outside of this forum. I realize the voice of the opposing side is loud and it kind of leaves a ringing sound in my ear but that's the problem. I'm discouraged, because the minute you speak out you get called a heretic and basically shouted at with put-downs and questions about your faith until your shrink into obscurity, which, in my opinion, isn't right. We should be like martyrs, stronger than knives in the form of sharp objects or words, and be making a bigger impact in the real world and speaking as clearly as possible.

The reason the opposing side has no trouble is because it's easy for them. Quote a Bible verse, then shout "Amen!" and any Christian will stop and agree. They haven't been taught how not to because the same people doing this are the ones that taught them how to shut off their brain and work on auto pilot for the rest of their life. We have to try to turn it back on and then persuade them to use it, which is so much harder than turning it off (making people think really is more difficult that it needs to be).

So what will you do to start the flow of thinking and be a voice for Christianity and homosexuality? That's like standing in the middle of a bloody war practically, because you're mocked for being Christian and for being homosexual or fighting for homosexuals, and you're mocked for being both. The Lord knows I wanted to quit, especially after seeing how ignorant people on both sides can be, but someone always impresses me and I have to try again. We're fighting in the middle so we have to be twice as loud - and when you're cast with a burden like THAT and you STILL continue to fight for both, you KNOW you must have some faith. And that's all the proof I need. God wouldn't life the burden, I wouldn't be so relaxed, if I weren't fighting for what's right. I would feel guilty for arguing with my brothers and sisters, not betrayed. For all those here fighting in the middle we have a burden yet we press on BECAUSE we know we have God. We don't need cheat sheets or brainwashing or easy pickings because we know God will help us through it.

Now for the question. If you're stuck in the middle, fighting for both homosexual rights and for Christ, has your burden been lifted? I want to hear your testimony, about what convinced you that something wasn't right about what they taught you in Sunday School.
The SNR is not a credible news source. It is the trash rag of Sacramento. It is a free publication that is read mainly by the homeless and bored people on city buses or light rail.

During the Gulf War in the early 90's this trash rag published that more than 40,000 US troops would be killed in Iraq when in fact less than 500 were. the paper never apologized.

If you are ever in Sacramento and want to know were all the strip joints and bars are or want to hire an escort who wants to go all out- just grab the SNR.

I also am familiar with David Thompson. He is highly thought of, but I doubt that even his Presbyterian congregation would give him credit for being right over Paul.

Paul was confronted and filled by the Holy Spirit.
 
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Jecoulo

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The truth of Jesus Christ is coming from a heart of love...or I wouldn't bother.

Jesus is the son of God. But not everything everyone writes here is coming from hearts of love.

Some of these hearts are cold, like stone.
 
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Chaplain David

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Jesus is the son of God. But not everything everyone writes here is coming from hearts of love.

Some of these hearts are cold, like stone.


I challenge all Christians here to be bold in their endeavors to become more like Christ and reflect the love that He so willingly offered the world in our posts in the Debates on Homosexuality forums.
 
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Ohioprof

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I challenge all Christians here to be bold in their endeavors to become more like Christ and reflect the love that He so willingly offered the world in our posts in the Debates on Homosexuality forums.
Good challenge! Let's do it. Let's post from love, not anger.
 
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FaithLikeARock

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The SNR is not a credible news source. It is the trash rag of Sacramento. It is a free publication that is read mainly by the homeless and bored people on city buses or light rail.

During the Gulf War in the early 90's this trash rag published that more than 40,000 US troops would be killed in Iraq when in fact less than 500 were. the paper never apologized.

If you are ever in Sacramento and want to know were all the strip joints and bars are or want to hire an escort who wants to go all out- just grab the SNR.

I also am familiar with David Thompson. He is highly thought of, but I doubt that even his Presbyterian congregation would give him credit for being right over Paul.

Paul was confronted and filled by the Holy Spirit.

And college students, which is mostly where it's spread around. I don't see SN&R on street corners next to newspapers. Besides, because a homeless person reads something or because something is free it's bad? Huh? A free newspaper I believe is a wonderful thing. Midtown is another good one.

Um, there's such a thing as satire and a wild guess. That was both. A paper shouldn't have to apologize for saying "40,000 troops WILL be killed". If it had been "40,000 troops HAVE been killed" which is an outright lie, then you might have something.

Wasn't in this issue. I did find an advertisement to a nice ballet I want to go too. And a nice article on the Presidential Primary's. And look, a page dedicated to advertising churches. The fronts a little risque which might be because it's February, but even a newspaper can pull that off. There's a Jazz Festival advertisement too. I just stay out of the parts that are inappropriate. Not hard. You can tell because they're all color and no text. But you have to realize the logic in this. It's a free paper, meaning it has to advertise something. There's not much they can say no too if they plan to stay in business so they just advertise a wide aray and keep them all in sections so people who don't want to see "VIP Dances" can just skip the page without looking twice. And check out the article encouraging abstinence education and the worry about teen STDs/pregnancy.

And it's in all color. Sweet. See, you can't judge a book by only what you disagree with because if we all did that we'd all hate everything.

So was I. So were most Christians. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is a characteristic of being Christian but it doesn't mean you can sit down and start writing scripture or writing God's opinion on the world or writing the difference between right and wrong. It takes a lot more than the Holy Spirit.
 
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BAFRIEND

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So was I. So were most Christians. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is a characteristic of being Christian but it doesn't mean you can sit down and start writing scripture or writing God's opinion on the world or writing the difference between right and wrong. It takes a lot more than the Holy Spirit.

No. Not all Christians are equal. Jesus in fact fired many of his followers at one point during his ministry. Paul, like Peter, was commissioned to speak for the Church through scripture. Also, through apostolic succession Jesus stated that whatever the Church bound on earth would be bound in Heaven. Paul was the leader of the Church and spoke on behalf of the Church. No such authority exists for you, me, or David Thompson.
 
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Chaplain David

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And college students, which is mostly where it's spread around. I don't see SN&R on street corners next to newspapers. Besides, because a homeless person reads something or because something is free it's bad? Huh? A free newspaper I believe is a wonderful thing. Midtown is another good one.

Um, there's such a thing as satire and a wild guess. That was both. A paper shouldn't have to apologize for saying "40,000 troops WILL be killed". If it had been "40,000 troops HAVE been killed" which is an outright lie, then you might have something.

Wasn't in this issue. I did find an advertisement to a nice ballet I want to go too. And a nice article on the Presidential Primary's. And look, a page dedicated to advertising churches. The fronts a little risque which might be because it's February, but even a newspaper can pull that off. There's a Jazz Festival advertisement too. I just stay out of the parts that are inappropriate. Not hard. You can tell because they're all color and no text. But you have to realize the logic in this. It's a free paper, meaning it has to advertise something. There's not much they can say no too if they plan to stay in business so they just advertise a wide aray and keep them all in sections so people who don't want to see "VIP Dances" can just skip the page without looking twice. And check out the article encouraging abstinence education and the worry about teen STDs/pregnancy.

And it's in all color. Sweet. See, you can't judge a book by only what you disagree with because if we all did that we'd all hate everything.

So was I. So were most Christians. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is a characteristic of being Christian but it doesn't mean you can sit down and start writing scripture or writing God's opinion on the world or writing the difference between right and wrong. It takes a lot more than the Holy Spirit.

Your last sentence is not stated like I think you meant it. Please correct me if I am wrong but don't you mean, being filled with the Holy Spirit doesn't make a person an expert on all things Christian, Biblical, Religious and Spiritual?

Anyway, that's my take on what you said and I agree with it. :) There are quite a few Christians I have met on forums and in church that believe they have an inside track to God and will very quickly not only tell you about it but also point out to you right away how you are wrong because you believe whatever it is they are obsessing on that day. If you don't feel something coming from the love of Christ then IMO it's not of the Holy Spirit. Also, we are to be gentle with each other when admonishing and rebuking after all, if we are Christian we are part of a greater family of believers, and are brothers and sisters in Christ. GBU:wave:
 
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FaithLikeARock

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No. Not all Christians are equal. Jesus in fact fired many of his followers at one point during his ministry. Paul, like Peter, was commissioned to speak for the Church through scripture. Also, through apostolic succession Jesus stated that whatever the Church bound on earth would be bound in Heaven. Paul was the leader of the Church and spoke on behalf of the Church. No such authority exists for you, me, or David Thompson.

That doesn't mean they're special. We all have spiritual gifts and we're all called to share the Good News BAFRIEND. God doesn't play favorites.

Most of my friends think my gift is wisdom. They don't tell me why, I think it's more likely preaching or faith. If God played favorites then He would have to admit that some people don't have a purpose. Paul wasn't the leader of the Church. He was the adviser, the counselor to MANY churches in many surrounding cities and countries. He didn't dedicate himself to a single church. All the Disciples were the founders of the church, the earliest Christians.

We don't know Paul's gift, so we have no right to say it was tongues (understanding tongues is the equivalent of understanding God's will. It isn't literal like many churches believe).
 
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CaDan

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Your last sentence is not stated like I think you meant it. Please correct me if I am wrong but don't you mean, being filled with the Holy Spirit doesn't make a person an expert on all things Christian, Biblical, Religious and Spiritual?

Prophecy, knowledge, and speech will pass away
Love will not.

We know in part; we prophesy in part
But at the end of all things
The partial will be put away
And only love will remain

For now, there is faith and hope and love
These three remain
But the greatest is love
 
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BAFRIEND

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That doesn't mean they're special. We all have spiritual gifts and we're all called to share the Good News BAFRIEND. God doesn't play favorites

being Christian but it doesn't mean you can sit down and start writing scripture or writing God's opinion on the world

You are referring to the Bible ? The Bible is thought of as being inspired by the Holy Spirit and even taken fundamentally to a degree by the vast vast majority of Christians.

To be one of the inspired writers of divine scripture is in fact very rare. Don't you think ?

And God does play favorites and Christians are not equal. God hated Esau and St. John was the only one with the courage to be by the Lord's side at the cruxifiction.
 
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ChaliceThunder

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THIS is the problem with modern Christian fundamentalism.

God won't have any part of the picture above.
 
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Floatingaxe

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THIS is the problem with modern Christian fundamentalism.

God won't have any part of the picture above.


God inspired it:

Ephesians 6:17
Put on salvation as your helmet, and take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.


Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

spiritualwarfare2.gif

 
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Chaplain David

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THIS is the problem with modern Christian fundamentalism.

God won't have any part of the picture above.

Just like homosexuals don't all like to be categorized a certain way, I can tell you that all Christian fundamentalists do not like it either. Who are you referring too, what denominations, etc., when you use the term Christian Fundamentalism? I am a Christian fundamentalist and a pretty nice guy.
 
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